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Offline Brig33

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« on: February 13, 2006, 11:49:54 AM »
well guys i have posted some fourms on seeing panthers and cougars. well last week a guy from bloomington , IN watched a panther kill 6-8 pigs early in the morning one day. he sais he heard a weird noise then looked out of the door and there it was..   that is what the paper said
Thanks brig33

Offline rockbilly

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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2006, 12:19:19 PM »
:D What is a panther?  As far as I know there is only one large cat in North America, it is the cougar.  There are several species of the cougar, some may be a little darker than others, but none are truly black.

There have been reported sightings of a Jaugar in South Texas and New Mexico, but I have never heard of one that far north.

I would like to see a report on the finding from your local game management office.  Otherwise, my thought would be, someone has been sampling too much of that good Kentucky shine.......... :roll:  :roll:

Offline Lone Star

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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2006, 04:23:17 PM »

Offline Nightrain52

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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2006, 04:48:54 PM »
A lot of people use the term Panther for Cougar and vice versa. About like we'uns and ya'all. It's a redneck thing. :-D  :)  :-D  :)  :-D  :)  :D
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Offline bullet maker

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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2006, 05:11:37 PM »
Quote from: Nightrain52
A lot of people use the term Panther for Cougar and vice versa. About like we'uns and ya'all. It's a redneck thing. :-D  :)  :-D  :)  :-D  :)  :D


I might add also, that our grandparents use to call them (painters) also.

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Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2006, 10:25:26 AM »
Quote from: TM7
Where I come from they were called 'catamounts', i.e. mountain lions.

..............................TM7


Ya and their between 180 to 200lbs too!!!!!  They are really big and bold too.

Offline Nightrain52

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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2006, 10:58:00 AM »
Lonestar-all those links to sitings were very interesting as all these places are within about a 40 mile radius of where I live. I live in Clay county where the 1st siting took place but remember hearing nothing about it. Ya never know whats out there in them thar woods. :D
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Offline Nightrain52

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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2006, 11:00:07 AM »
Double post
FREEDOM IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR-ARE YOU WILLING TO DIE FOR IT--------IT'S HARD TO SOAR LIKE AN EAGLE WHEN YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY TURKEYS

Offline Glanceblamm

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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2006, 04:50:43 PM »
bullet maker
Glad to see you posting, thought you might have taken to your sick bed but also knew you might be working with that 45-70 brass. :grin:

No cat sightings here for a while. Usually get a report every couple years. Bobcat numbers are up and remain to be on the protected list.

Offline bullet maker

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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2006, 07:28:39 PM »
Quote from: glanceblamm
bullet maker
Glad to see you posting, thought you might have taken to your sick bed but also knew you might be working with that 45-70 brass. :grin:

No cat sightings here for a while. Usually get a report every couple years. Bobcat numbers are up and remain to be on the protected list.


Hi ya glanceblamm :D

   Yep been under the weather for about 3 weeks. feel much better now. Dont know what it was, had my flu shot, doc says some kind of virus. I just got over it bout a week ago. still have alittle bowel problems, seems like everytime I eat anything, got to run to the outhouse in about 30 minutes later, but its getting cleared up now.
   Bought me and the wife a brand new travel trailer, to travel the roads this year. Ain`t had to much time to play with the 45/70, dang cold weather has finally moved in for a spell. Still got no rain down here in over 145 days, been the dryest year ever for Okla. Its getten so bad, I look for old bigfoot to come to the back door anyday now for a cup of water. :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D
    Now as far as them mt. lions everyone talking about, we got plenty of them critters down this was. They did a nice piece about me in the Tulsa, World Newspaper back in Dec 21 2001. I seen three of them from my tower stand, just a looking at me. They didnt run, even after I waved my hat at them. They moved off into the thickets, and started to mateing. Bout 5:00 P.M. one of my corn feeders went off and here comes 3 does. They got one of the does and torn her to pieces, I had a front row seat.

     I always watch the ridge line and my back when I`m in the woods. I hear tell they won`t attack you from the front, but will attack from the back. Yes sir, I got`s lots of them mt lion stories out here.

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Offline Telahnay's g'son

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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2006, 02:38:38 AM »
Have found cougar tracks on Bullet Maker's place and the local game ranger has stated there are two females in the vicinity of his place that usually raise a litter of kits most every year.

Of course, for years the "official" statement by the ODWC was there were NO cougar or bear in Oklahoma.  They finally had to regurgitate that one.

BTW, on the current ODWC website the "official" statement is there are NO Big Foot in Oklahoma!  Look out boys!  :)
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Offline Brig33

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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2006, 11:27:18 AM »
well guys i really am glad of all of you r stories and those there post links you had wer4e pretty good . the one abutout the lady in clay county is the one that i was talking about. i havent seen any in awhile but last weekend when i was dog hunting i found some tracks of one. well thanks agian.
Thanks brig33

Offline rockbilly

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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2006, 04:26:59 PM »
:D I don't doubt there are cougar, mountian lions,catamounts, painters or wild cats in Illinois and Indinia.  I have seen them in several places and hunted them all over Texas, New Mexico and Arziona.  No where I have been can anyone produce proof that they actually seen a "black" cat.  What is truly a dark gray/brown will often appear to be black in low light conditions, but rest assured, if it is in fact a black cat, then it is a Jaguar, or leopard.  Read on:

Black panther
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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black jaguarThis article is about the big cat. For other meanings of the term, see Black panther (disambiguation).
The black panther is the common name for a black specimen (a genetic variant) of several species of cats. Zoologically, a panther is the same as a leopard, while the term Panthera describes the whole family of big cats. But, in North America, the term panther is also used for puma. In South America it could also mean a jaguar. Elsewhere in the world it refers to leopard (originally individual animals with longer tails were deemed panthers and others were leopards; it is a common misconception that panther means a melanistic individual).

It does not exist as a separate species. The genetic variant is most common in jaguars (Panthera onca) where it is due to a dominant gene mutation, and leopards (Panthera pardus) where it is due to a recessive gene mutation. Close examination of one of these black cats will show that the typical markings are still there, and are simply hidden by the surplus of the black pigment melanin. Cats with melanism can co-exist with litter mates that do not have this condition. In cats that hunt mainly at night the condition is not detrimental. White panthers also exist, these being albino or leucistic individuals of the same three species.

It is probable that melanism is a favorable evolutionary mutation with a selective advantage under certain conditions for its possessor, since it is more commonly found in regions of dense forest, where light levels are lower. Melanism can also be linked to beneficial mutations in the immune system.

Contents [hide]
1 Black Jaguar
2 Black Leopard
3 Black Puma
4 See also
 


[edit]
Black Jaguar
 
black jaguar cubsIn jaguars, the mutation is dominant hence black jaguars can produce both black and spotted cubs, but spotted jaguars only produce spotted cubs when bred together. In leopards, the mutation is recessive and some spotted leopards can produce black cubs (if both parents carry the gene in hidden form) while black leopards always breed true when mated together. In stuffed mounted specimens, black leopards often fade to a rusty color, but black jaguars fade to chocolate brown. The black jaguar was considered a separate species by indigenous peoples.

In Harmsworth Natural History (1910), WH Hudson writes The jaguar is a beautiful creature, the ground-colour of the fur a rich golden-red tan, abundantly marked with black rings, enclosing one or two small spots within. This is the typical colouring, and it varies little in the temperate regions; in the hot region the Indians recognise three strongly marked varieties, which they regard as distinct species - the one described; the smaller jaguar, less aquatic in his habits and marked with spots, not rings; and, thirdly, the black variety. They scout the notion that their terrible "black tiger" is a mere melanic variation, like the black leopard of the Old World and the wild black rabbit. They regard it as wholly distinct, and affirm that it is larger and much more dangerous than the spotted jaguar; that they recognise it by its cry; that it belongs to the terra firma rather than to the water-side; finally, that black pairs with black, and that the cubs are invariably black. Nevertheless, naturalists have been obliged to make it specifically one with Felis onca, the familiar spotted jaguar, since, when stripped of its hide, it is found to be anatomically as much like that beast as the black is like the spotted leopard.

[edit]
Black Leopard
These are the most common form of black panther in captivity and have been selectively bred for decades as exhibits or exotic pets (this inbreeding for the sake of appearance has adversely affected temperament). They are smaller and more lightly built than jaguars. The spotted pattern is still visible on black leopards, especially from certain angles where the effects is of printed silk.

Black leopards are reported from moist densely-forested areas in south-western China, Burma, Assam and Nepal; from Travancore and other parts of southern India and are said to be common in Java and the southern part of the Malay peninsula where they may be more numerous than spotted leopards. They are less common in tropical Africa, but have been reported from Ethiopia (formerly Abyssinia), the forests of Mount Kenya and the Aberdares. One was recorded by Peter Turnbull-Kemp in the equatorial forest of Cameroon.

Adult black panthers (leopards) are more temperamental (nervous or vicious) than their spotted counterparts. It is a myth that their mothers often reject them at a young age because of their colour. In actuality, they are more temperamental because they have been inbred (e.g. brother/sister, father/daughter, mother/son matings) to preserve the coloration. The poor temperament has been bred into the strain as a side-effect of inbreeding. It is this poor temperament that leads to problems of maternal care in captivity as the proximity of humans stresses the mother. According to Funk And Wagnalls' Wildlife Encyclopedia, black leopards are less fertile than normal leopards having average litters of 1.8, compared to 2.1. This may be due to their high-strung nature.

In the early 1980s, Glasgow Zoo, Scotland acquired a 10 year old black leopard from Dublin Zoo, Ireland. She was exhibited for several years before moving to Madrid Zoo, Spain. This leopard had a uniformly black coat profusely sprinkled with white hairs as though draped with spider webs. She was therefore nicknamed the Cobweb Panther. The condition appeared to be vitiligo and as she aged, the white became more extensive. Since then, other Cobweb Panthers have been reported and photographed in zoos.

[edit]
Black Puma
There are no authenticated cases of true melanistic pumas. Black pumas have been reported in Kentucky, one of which had a paler belly. There have been reports of glossy black pumas from Kansas, and Eastern Nebraska. These are known as the North American Black Panther (NABP) and are cryptozoological animals. However no one has ever taken a picture of a Black Puma, no breeder in the world has ever been able to produce one, and no hunter has ever shot one. All breeders of pumas in the world agree that the 'Black Puma' is nothing more than a myth. This is probably due to most people being inexperienced in what different breeds of cats actually look like and mistaking one breed for another.

In his "Histoire Naturelle" (1749), Georges-Louis Leclerc, Comte de Buffon, wrote of the "Black Cougar": "M. de la Borde, KingÂ’s physician at Cayenne, informs me, that in the [South American] Continent there are three species of rapacious animals; that the first is the jaguar, which is called the tiger; that the second is the couguar [sic], called the red tiger, on account of the uniform redness of his hair; that the jaguar is of the size of a large bull-dog, and weighs about 200 pounds; that the couguar is smaller, less dangerous, and not so frequent in the neighbourhood of Cayenne as the jaguar; and that both these animals take six years in acquiring their full growth. He adds, that there is a third species in these countries, called the black tiger, of which we have given a figure under the appellation of the black couguar."

"The head," says M. de la Borde, "is pretty similar to that of the common couguar; but the animal has long black hair, and likewise a long tail, with strong whiskers. He weighs not above forty pounds. The female brings forth her young in the hollows of old trees." This black couguar is most likely a margay or ocelot, which are under forty pounds, live in trees, and do occur in a melanistic phase.

Another description of a black cougar was provided by Mr Pennant: "Black tiger, or cat, with the head black, sides, fore part of the legs, and the tail, covered with short and very glossy hairs, of a dusky colour, sometimes spotted with black, but generally plain: Upper lips white: At the corner of the mouth a black spot: Long hairs above each eye, and long whiskers on the upper lip: Lower lip, throat, belly, and the inside of the legs, whitish, or very pale ash-colour: Paws white: Ears pointed: Grows to the size of a heifer of a year old: Has vast strength in its limbs.-- Inhabits Brasil and Guiana: Is a cruel and fierce beast; much dreaded by the Indians; but happily is a scarce species;" (Pennant's Synops. of quad., p 180). According to his translator Smellie (1781), the description was taken from two black cougars exhibited in London some years previously.

Offline winman

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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2006, 04:09:19 AM »
Brig, I've also been reading about these sightings in the local papers.  I have never been 'fortunate' enough to actually see one of these cats in the wild, but several of us have seen their tracks in Switzerland county while deer hunting. I was able to place my fingers completely inside the tracks that I saw.

Edit:  OK, ignorant question time. Not that I would shoot one, but are they protected in Indiana or would they be considered 'varmits' like groundhogs.  Just out of curiosity I think I'll check the DNR website.

Offline Wisill

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Re: Panther
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2006, 07:06:30 AM »
Quote from: Brig33
well guys i have posted some fourms on seeing panthers and cougars. well last week a guy from bloomington , IN watched a panther kill 6-8 pigs early in the morning one day. he sais he heard a weird noise then looked out of the door and there it was..   that is what the paper said


Brig33 what paper did this appear in, and the date.  Most papers are accessible online and have archives of past stories.  I'd like to check this one out.  Having a cat kill 6-8 pigs, apparently by the way you tell it, makes it sound as though it's killing for sheer pleasure.  Everything I've seen shows a cat will kill 1, then drag it away and eat it, not go on a rampage and just start slaughtering animals at will.  

Were are the pigs that were slaughtered?  Was an investigation performed and did a vet or anyone of same stature come forth with a report stating that in fact a cat did kill these pigs?  Thanks..

Offline powderman

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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2006, 05:49:26 PM »
I've found big cat tracks several times. Last was 2 weeks ago in a flower bed at my pond, about 150 yds from the house. Tracks measured about 2 1/2 in accross, and an inch or so deep. POWDERMAN.  :D  :D  :D  :D
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Offline Ray Ford

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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2006, 03:42:01 PM »
Quote from: bullet maker
Quote from: Nightrain52
A lot of people use the term Panther for Cougar and vice versa. About like we'uns and ya'all. It's a redneck thing. :-D  :)  :-D  :)  :-D  :)  :D


I might add also, that our grandparents use to call them (painters) also.

bullet maker :D
 

Bulletmaker,
I've encountered the term "Painter" in literature a number of times, and I have always assumed that it was a derivation of "Panther"--which is a name is used for Cougars.  It matters not that it is technically incorrect.

Glad to hear you are up and about.
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Offline Brig33

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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2006, 08:02:26 PM »
well winman i belive that you can kill them because they arent native born animals to the state.
 i have had a few more people see the piar around my house and a farmer friend had some calves killed and the only thing let was the head so. i dont know i have seen one in about a month or two   thanks again Brig33
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Offline WmRoy

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« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2006, 02:04:43 AM »
There have been a fair number sighted up in South Dakota this spring..... I have not heard of any calves being killed....... but I'm sure it is a concern.  I don't think the GF&P is allowing them to be shot however!

Things seem to be changing because I don't think there were EVER cougars roaming around the plains before now............. I suspect it has to do with the explosion of the deer population..... which is occurring pretty much nation wide..... :eek:

Offline Brig33

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« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2006, 09:44:23 PM »
WmRoy the laws in your area are most likely different than the laws in my area here in indiana. but you might be right be a had talkedt o a few co's about this  thanks Brig33
Thanks brig33

Offline Ray Ford

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« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2006, 07:47:36 AM »
Quote from: winman
Brig, I've also been reading about these sightings in the local papers.  I have never been 'fortunate' enough to actually see one of these cats in the wild, but several of us have seen their tracks in Switzerland county while deer hunting. I was able to place my fingers completely inside the tracks that I saw.

Edit:  OK, ignorant question time. Not that I would shoot one, but are they protected in Indiana or would they be considered 'varmits' like groundhogs.  Just out of curiosity I think I'll check the DNR website.


Win,

Regardless of what the law is in your state, or any other state, a person should check Federal law before trying to bag a Cougar.  I believe that they are Federally protected animals.  See my post on the subject in the "Deep Fork Cougars" thread.
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Offline propredator

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« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2006, 10:02:03 AM »
There has been 3 killed in Iowa in the last couple of years,one was declawed 8) Them is the best kind.They are not protected here but the DNR has considered putting them in the traping season.That way they would be protected in the off season like any other fur bearing animal besides the coyote.

Offline propredator

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« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2006, 10:06:37 AM »
double post

Offline Micahn

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« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2006, 01:55:16 PM »
Quote from: powderman
I've found big cat tracks several times. Last was 2 weeks ago in a flower bed at my pond, about 150 yds from the house. Tracks measured about 2 1/2 in accross, and an inch or so deep. POWDERMAN.  :D  :D  :D  :D


That size sounds like a Bobcat. If it is a panther it would be a young one. A panthers track go from say 3 inch to about 4 1/2 or so. A real big one will go maybe up to 6 inch across but I would say that would be rare.

Offline Micahn

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« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2006, 02:18:49 PM »
The Mountain lion, Panther, Painter, cougar, Puma, Wild cat, catamount and other names are all the same critters.
It all depends on where it is seen and who sees it. But none of the names are the "Real" names for them.
For example, Out west they have the Mountain Lions. But here in Florida we have the Panther. They are the very same animal but the states where they live have different official names fort them.

Now the panthers (or what ever you want to call them) are not the same animal as a Jaguar.  The Jaguar is the 3 largest cat in the world and live mostly in south America. But they do also live in N.America but are not as common. The last few years a few pictures have been taken out west in Texas and them other states along Mexico. It would not shock me at all if they have also moved threw them states and into the next ones in line or even farther.

The "Black Panthers" people see places are chances are escaped jaguar that people had as pets or just dark panthers. If you see a brown animal that is wet from rain or what ever they will seem really dark. See them in the dark and you could easily say they was black. When really they was just brown or a wet brown.

As far as seeing them in Bloomington, Well I was just up in Indiana (got back at 5 am this morning) seeing my family out in Greene county and panther are all over the place out there. Green county is the next county to the west of Bloomington. The DNR came out to my uncles place about a week before I was there and said the tracks 10 feet from his front door (He is living in a new home he is building and has no grass yet) was 100% panther tracks. They was 4 1/2 across and they said chances are it was around 150 lbs plus in size. That was the 5 time he found tracks and has seen the panther itself a couple of times also. While there 5 other people told me they also seen panther from time to time around their places. Plus my mother said that something has taken 4 of her goats as well as some chickens. But to tell the truth Bobcats or coyotes could have done that stuff as she did not see what done it. But she done live just about 1 1/2 miles from my uncle that had the tracks.
My uncle also told me that 3 dogs was killed by something while they was tied up. The people came home and went to feed their dogs and some animal had killed them all. That was about a mile from his house and happen 2 days before I got there. But again coyotes could have done that and I heard of no tracks being found.
While I was up there a very large bobcat was caught next door to my uncles house and the DNR told my uncle that it could not have been what left the tracks at his house as the tracks was only 2 1/2 wide.

Offline Ray Ford

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« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2006, 04:11:41 PM »
Quote from: Micahn
Quote from: powderman
I've found big cat tracks several times. Last was 2 weeks ago in a flower bed at my pond, about 150 yds from the house. Tracks measured about 2 1/2 in accross, and an inch or so deep. POWDERMAN.  :D  :D  :D  :D


That size sounds like a Bobcat. If it is a panther it would be a young one. A panthers track go from say 3 inch to about 4 1/2 or so. A real big one will go maybe up to 6 inch across but I would say that would be rare.


Mic,
The casts that we made in the l960's were 5.75 inches side to side.  And the tracks were firm and well defined.  The animal that laid them down was very probably a large male.  I have been told, as I've posted elsewhere, that Cougars range up to 500 miles.  I've posted on these tracks/casts in other places.
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Offline Micahn

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« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2006, 04:41:58 PM »
Quote from: Ray Ford
Quote from: Micahn
Quote from: powderman
I've found big cat tracks several times. Last was 2 weeks ago in a flower bed at my pond, about 150 yds from the house. Tracks measured about 2 1/2 in accross, and an inch or so deep. POWDERMAN.  :D  :D  :D  :D


That size sounds like a Bobcat. If it is a panther it would be a young one. A panthers track go from say 3 inch to about 4 1/2 or so. A real big one will go maybe up to 6 inch across but I would say that would be rare.


Mic,
The casts that we made in the l960's were 5.75 inches side to side.  And the tracks were firm and well defined.  The animal that laid them down was very probably a large male.  I have been told, as I've posted elsewhere, that Cougars range up to 500 miles.  I've posted on these tracks/casts in other places.


Sure I would say a cat track found in the US that was 5 1/2 inch I would say it was a panther. But that one he was talking about was 2 1/2 inch I would say that was a very young panther or a bobcat.