Author Topic: Lead on the cheap? (Read 1453 times)

Third_Rail · « **on:** July 30, 2005, 04:03:16 PM »

Where can I obtain lead for smaller balls (50 caliber at largest) etc?

I picked up a wheelweight off the ground and it made me think - where can I get these for little or no money?

guardsgunner · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2005, 04:53:06 PM »

Try an Auto salvage yard. $20. for a 5 gal bucket full or close.

Third_Rail · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2005, 05:35:12 PM »

You mean a junkyard? Interesting idea - how much does a 5gal bucket weigh when full? Trying to figure $ per lb.

Powder keg · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2005, 06:05:18 PM »

I've bought it from local tire stores before. $10 for a 5 gal bucket.

GGaskill · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2005, 07:49:36 PM »

5 gallons of solid lead would weigh about 475 lbs. Allowing for less than perfect packing of wheel weights, I would guess between 200 and 250 lbs.

guardsgunner · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2005, 11:36:53 PM »

I would go with the 200 + figure. Had to put a board thru the handle so that 2 of us could lift it into the truck. My junk yard has only high quality wheels weights so I pay the extra money. :lol:

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2005, 01:27:14 AM »

Building a friendship with someone at the tire store is the best - then they're free.

Short of that (not always possible) bring a box of donuts ALWAYS is a good influence - especially if there's competition.

Let a lot of people know that you're looking. Unusual things pop up.

Sheet lead (used for roofing and showers) is often available from destruction sites/junk yards. Usually has 3% antimony 97% lead - makes it a little harder. A little tin will make it pour and fill the mould better.

Some folks buy/sell lead for casting lead sinkers for fishing.

For casting bullets lots of folks use Linotype (eutectic mix of lead-tin-antimony etc) for printer's type. Very hard, can be dropped into water just out of the mold for max hardness.

Folks that cast bullets for muzzle loaders usually use pure, 1-30 or 1-20 or so mix of tin-lead (much softer).

Hospitals when remodeling will have bricks and plates of lead that were used for radiation shielding - also nearly pure lead.

Remember, the word 'buy' is a 4 letter word.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2005, 01:40:02 AM »

I've bought 'lead' from a fellow for $5 a bar (22 lbs each) for casting fish weights - turned out to be Linotype! (Last bar I bought new was $28.)

Then too, if you can find a used locomotive engine - you'll find several tons of lead underneath in two ballast blocks.

Which brings to mind - if you're near a port you could find the ballast for sailboats - one purchase would set you up for life.

Frequently you'll find blocks of lead or bars of solder at flea markets and yard sales.

AND, now that ROHS is coming in (requirement for lead-free products - especially circuit boards) there are going to be opportunities as manufacturing plants become ROHS compliant.

Further, if you can find lead pipe it is usually very pure (once you burn off all the crud it's accumulated in the inside and out.

There are more.

DON'T even think about batteries. They have cadmium in the mix now. Right much poisonous if you're melting them.

Third_Rail · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2005, 04:37:54 AM »

Hm, so are wheelweights too hard for what I'm doing?

Double D · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2005, 05:24:12 AM »

Wheelweights are just fine for cannons balls in small calibers

Terry C. · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2005, 05:27:18 AM »

Quote from: Third_Rail

Hm, so are wheelweights too hard for what I'm doing?

I don't think that the exact alloy matters much in a smoothbore cannon. Now if you were making precision bullets that needed to have specific characteristics (expansion vs. penetration) you would need to tailor the hardness of the alloy to suit the application.

But for cannonballs you just need them to be round, smooth, and uniform.

The cannon in my avatar has never fired a ball NOT made from wheelweight alloy. I use it because I have accumulated a small stockpile, and can get more when it's gone. At 3Â½ balls to the pound I'll take whatever I can get cheap or free.

Third_Rail · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2005, 05:44:54 AM »

Okay, seems this is the route I'll take. I'll gather some numbers and make calls tomorrow AM.

I'll let you all know how it goes.

Terry C. · « **Reply #12 on:** August 06, 2005, 03:07:15 PM »

Over the past couple of days I've managed to melt the biggest part of a new 50 pound batch of wheelweights that I got on Tuesday. Bad weather has run me indoors both times before I could finish.

That is the thing about wheelweights, they are not ready to go right into the casting mix as-is. First you have to melt them to remove the clips.

This is not something you want to do with your good casting pot or electric melter, either, as used wheelweights are generally filthy. This batch was swept up off the floor of an old tire shop, and some of them had been there for a LONG time!

I melt the wheelweights outdoors in an old cast-iron pot on top of a Coleman 'Sportster II' (not a stove, just a tank with a burner on top) and pour them into small loaf-pans. This produces ingots that range from 3-5 pounds. The clips will float and can be skimmed off with the dross (and there will be a LOT of that!).

The lead is finally clean and ready to use for casting.

In addition to the labor involved, there is also a significant waste factor. From six ingots totalling 24Â½ pounds, I have accumulated 5 pounds of clips and dross. I will probably only get another 15 pounds or so of clean lead because the weights get smaller the farther down I get in the container.

Still, about 40 pounds of lead for five bucks and a little Coleman fuel ain't bad.

The point of this long-winded post?

Wheelweight lead is like heads-on shrimp. You have to make sure that you get it cheap enough to justify the work (and waste) involved.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #13 on:** August 06, 2005, 03:55:18 PM »

Quote from: Terry C.

....

The point of this long-winded post?

Wheelweight lead is like heads-on shrimp. You have to make sure that you get it cheap enough to justify the work (and waste) involved.

Good explanation of the process and good analogy.

Having the 'production equipment' helps a lot when doing larger volumes of lead for the 'big' bullets. It's a step or two up from doing .308's or .45's.

Third_Rail · « **Reply #14 on:** August 06, 2005, 04:13:04 PM »

Maybe I'll just buy some ingots, then! Seems almost like more work than it's worth, but I'll give it a shot once or twice to see if it's worth it to me. Thanks for the overview!

Double D · « **Reply #15 on:** August 06, 2005, 04:23:10 PM »

It isn't that much work especially if you have quite a bunch of it to do. Mel the wheel weight in large cast iron pot skim the dirt and clip off the top with a slotted steel kitchen spoon. Flux with a chunk parrafim skim again and pore your ingots. No big deal.

Terry C. · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2005, 05:30:15 PM »

Third_Rail, It wasn't my intention to discourage you from using wheelweights. Sorry if it came off that way.

I mainly wanted to bring you up to speed on what you will need to do with them once you have them. It's really not that hard once you get set up.

The main point of my post was that when you buy wheelweights, you have to factor the waste into the cost. I had no problem paying 10Â¢ a pound for these wheelweights because even after the waste and fuel I will still only have between 12Â¢-15Â¢ per pound in the ingots.

If the price goes much over that, though, I'd pass. Wheelweights do not bring big money on the scrap market.

Actually, this is the most I've ever had to pay. I can usually get them much cheaper, sometimes free or for 'services rendered'.

Powder keg · « **Reply #17 on:** August 06, 2005, 06:42:38 PM »

I've had good results with wheelweights. I have a pot made from a piece of pipe with a bottom welded on it. and my burner is a turky cooker burner. just pore the weights in, light, and come back in a half hour or so and skim off the clips and dross. At this point I pore into my pre heated mould.

Good luck.

Rickk · « **Reply #18 on:** April 13, 2006, 07:21:35 AM »

If you live near Western Mass (your gunna have to drive here), I can get you pretty much all the clean range lead you want.

Also, to answer the question about what a five gallon bucket of scrap lead weighs (wheel weight or range lead) , 20# per gallon is a pretty good figure to work with. I have brought many thousands of pounds of it to the scrap yard, and I fill 5 gallon pails to about the 4 gallon level to make it somewhat less painfull when putting them in the back of my flatbed truck. 4 gallons weights in at 100 # +- a little almost every time.

Double D · « **Reply #19 on:** April 13, 2006, 08:03:24 AM »

Rick,

Do you ever run across Zinc.

40 lbs will fit in one of the Post office flate rate box and only cost $8.10 to mail any where in the U.S.

The Shootist · « **Reply #20 on:** April 13, 2006, 04:02:03 PM »

When I need lead for bullets I just go to my local public range, early on a weekday, and pick slugs off the ground on the pistol range. After sa hard rain is the best time.

Turns out the gravel on the backstop embankment is actually lead....lots and lots of it.

Rickk · « **Reply #21 on:** April 14, 2006, 04:38:11 AM »

sorry Double D, never see any zinc, just range lead. I am on the Board of Directors for a local pistol club. We have Savage Arms "Snail" traps. They recover the bullets using a water wash system... no dirt to clean off, no looking for the bullets... just open up the back access door and start shoveling them out. We get about 100# or so a week on the average.

claypipe · « **Reply #22 on:** April 15, 2006, 02:20:55 AM »

I use my camping firepot and a cast iron firestarter cauldron to melt my scrap lead using the many dropped branches from the elm trees in the front yard. Killing two birds with one stone.

I constantly flux the lead with scrap wax from candle stubs and used canning wax. I skim the dross off with an old tablespoon attached to a piece of wooden dowel. The dross, then, goes into an old stickless steel skillet which sets on an angle in the coals.

This allows any lead that was scooped up in the skimming process to run off and accumulate in the lower side of the skillet. Once the fire goes out, I can pick up the runoff lead and dispose of the dross.

For my ingots, I use a soapstone mold I made to cast what looks like large bolt washers, 3 inches across, 1/4 inch thick with a 3/4 inch center hole. That way I can string them on a length of rope or leather and hang them out of the way, till I need them.

Double D · « **Reply #23 on:** April 15, 2006, 05:28:52 AM »

Quote from: claypipe

I skim the dross off with an old tablespoon attached to a piece of wooden dowel. The dross, then, goes into an old stickless steel skillet which sets on an angle in the coals.

This allows any lead that was scooped up in the skimming process to run off and accumulate in the lower side of the skillet. Once the fire goes out, I can pick up the runoff lead and dispose of the dross.

Clever!!!

Third_Rail · « **Reply #24 on:** April 15, 2006, 06:00:26 AM »

Long time of no posts for me - I've been busy.

Rick - where in western MA? I now live in Enfield, CT., so western MA isn't a bad drive.

Rickk · « **Reply #25 on:** April 15, 2006, 06:53:51 AM »

Westfield Third_rail... how much do you want, and when do you want it? I'll start collecting some with your name on it.

Third_Rail · « **Reply #26 on:** April 15, 2006, 07:15:54 AM »

Too funny - I was up there just a few days ago...

Well, I don't want to be greedy, but I also don't want to melt down the lead flashing I bought for other purposes. Say 50-100#?

Rickk · « **Reply #27 on:** April 15, 2006, 09:23:18 AM »

The last time I checked there was many hundred pounds filling the bottom half of a 55 gallon drum. It is sorta packed and hard to get out, which is why it is still there. You can have it all if you want, or as much as you need. There may be some easier to get stuff in the traps as well. I'll swing by there this week and make sure it is still there and if it is we can hook up and I can watch you shovel.

Please send me a PM with e-mail address, phone number and a real name (unless your mom really named you Third_Rail, which is fine too) so I can get ahold of you

As long as I am giving stuff away, anyone want to let me watch them shovel llama poop? I still have a couple pickup truck loads of that left as well.