Author Topic: Handgun hunting opinions solcitied.  (Read 1211 times)

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Offline jeager106

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Handgun hunting opinions solcitied.
« on: April 08, 2006, 07:48:24 AM »
This is open to any one that would care to comment.
I am very fortunate to live on 14 acres of woods surrounded by ..............by... NUTTIN'!
Actually I have no close neighbors and that's rare for N.E. Ohio.
I have also been cultivating a small herd of local deer and there are at least three wall hanger bucks in the bunch, often they hang out behind the house.
I want to harvest a deer, doe for meat or buck, with a hunting handgun.
This is no trick question, just want some honest opinions.
I don't have a scoped revolver. Don't want one.
My shots would be limited to about 60 yards max due to the thickness of the woods and, quite frankly my ability with open sights with a handgun.
I've taken many deer but not with the six gun.
I own two Rugers in .45 Colt, a Smith in .44 spl, a 44. mag, a .41 mag, .45 A.C.P. and maybe three or four in .357.
I'm guessing that the .357 is on the light side and guessing the .44, mag, .45 Colt, .41 would all be perfectly suitable for deer.
That said, what is the best performing bullet wieght in these calibers?
I do handload.
My hunting would be from a tree stand and shots will be under 60 yards, perhaps much closer.
I'm thinking I don't need or want the big heavy wieght bullets for the caliber since any hunting bullet of about any weight will blow through even a big whitetail.
Or am I wrong?
By the way my .44 mags are a M-29 with pinned barrel, recessed chambers and a Ruger old model unaltered 3 screw.
 :grin:

Offline Blammer

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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2006, 08:23:07 AM »
I would suggest the 44 mag with a good 240gr bullet at middle of the road velocities.

Should do a bang up job for you.

Offline crawfish

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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2006, 09:40:55 AM »
Your .41RemMag loaded with any of the 210g bullets available and 19-20g of 2400 will get the job done on any deer you should want to take home. Before I started loading cast lead I loaded the Sierra 210g (8520) using 2400 as my powder. We killed a truck load of deer with that load. Son #2 and granddaughter still use that load as their primary .41 caliber hunting load. In the other calibers you list any load of 1100-1250fps will be pleasant to shoot and kill deer real well.
Love those .41s'

Offline Lloyd Smale

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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2006, 09:48:02 AM »
anyone of them loaded with a good cast bullet or a jacketed bullet (on the heavy side for the .357) will kill any deer under those circumstances.
blue lives matter

Offline SJPrice

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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2006, 02:07:05 PM »
I would suggest that your hunt is a perfect reason to buy a new sixgun.  I think you should consider adding a really big bore to your already fine collection and you could easily justify it given your upcoming hunt.  :grin:

Offline Mikey

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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2006, 03:32:18 PM »
Lloyd's right.  Mikey.

Offline Turk

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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2006, 03:36:35 PM »
Most of the caliber’s you own are excellent for whitetail deer.  I personally won’t hunt with the 44 Spec or the 45ACP. (Yes I know they can kill deer but they are not my choice) Even the 357 will shoot through but your range would be decreased.  I would take a 50-yard shot with a 357.

Since you handload any of the bullet manufactures jacketed HP bullets will perform as required (I’m partial to Sierra) but my 1st choice are cast bullets in the LBT style using the Wide Flat Nose design.  The WFN is my choice since there isn’t much expansion due to the hardness of the bullets I cast so I want as large of a hole as possible.  I also prefer gas checked bullets.   Using the 357 I do recommend a jacketed HP so you can make a little bigger hole.  My choice in cast bullets are 41 Mag. 220-255 gr.,  44 Mag. 240-265 gr., 45 Colt 250-300 gr.  I personally like a heavier bullet.  This year I plant to hunt with a TC Contender 357 Maximum with a Hornady 180gr. SP bullet.  Concerning the big boys (454, 460, 480 and 500) they will kill any whitetail but then so will any of the caliber’s you own so why take the punishment.  

You may want to consider to set a goal to take a whitetail in all the caliber’s you own.  My personal favorite handgun for whitetail is my Smith 57 the 41 will do what needs to be done.

Have a good day.

Turk

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Offline PaulS

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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2006, 06:39:35 PM »
jeager106,

You made a remark about your ability with revolvers and iron sights. Shoot your 45 Colt and 44 Magnum at a paper plate (with the center 5 or 6 inches blacked out with paint) at fifty yards. When you can keep five shots in the black then use THAT gun to shoot your deer with. Shoot from your stand to a few different locations and keep in mind that your effective target is smaller when shooting from above the deer. You probably won't put one bullet through both lungs or the heart and lungs from above like that. Head and neck shots to the "middle of mass are effective but unless you can shoot into a 2 or 3 inch cirle your target is even smaller than a heart shot from the stand. You will need a moderately hot load in the 45 (compared to factory loadings) or a moderate load in the 44 Mag to be effective so practice with that kind of load. Make sure the load is accurate because you need that as well as good placement to kill humanely.

In short, your guns are adequate for the job. you just need to make sure that you and your ammo are accurate enough to do the rest.
PaulS

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Offline Dusty Miller

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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2006, 06:55:32 PM »
You DEFINITELY SHOULD consider buying a FA in at least a 454 Casull and preferably the 500 Wyoming Express.  Contrary to popular opinion deer can be tough as all heck to bring down and often turn agressive and attack the hunter.  You can use my name when you tell this to the Mrs.!!   :grin:
When seconds mean life or death, the police are only minutes away!

Offline jeager106

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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2006, 01:28:37 AM »
O.K. Lemme see if I have this advice right so far.
1) everything written here is by an expert and can be trusted more than the Holy Bible.
2) I need to practice from my tree stand to simulate hunting comditions.
That is easy for me. All I have to do is move my ladder stand close to the back yard range and shoot down into the woods.
Great idea! :grin:
3) Further simulate hunting conditions by shooting off hand and learn how far I can reliably hold a vital zone shot under more realistic conditions than from the bench.
Got it!
4) Meduim wieght bullets for the caliber and moderate to heavy loads are fine.
I'm not recoil shy so medium to outrageous loads are acceptable.
Remember I'm the guy that bought a replica .58 cailber black powder Zouave and loaded a 600 grain solid mini bullet over 120 grains of 2fg.
 :eek:
I touched 'er off and after I woke up I saw that the blast knocked over trees up to 14" in diameter, blew the feathers off all the chickens, dried up the creek, sent the neigbors cows into a blind stampede that destroyed Cleveland, Ohio, and sent a mushroom cloud 5 thousand feet into the air.
The military is still investigating!
5) Since whitetail deer are so agressive I need to consider at least a .454 or .500 mag as a back up gun in case the .41, .45 Colt, .44 magnums fail to stop an agressive and determined charge that could conceivably knock me from my tree stand and leave be dangling from my safey harness like a 60 year old over stuffed piñata. :shock:
O.K. I got it.
Pratice under realistic conditions to hone my offhand skills, and run to the nearest gun store and put a .500 mag in lay-a-way!.
 :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D
You guys are awsome. :grin:

Offline Larry Gibson

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Re: Handgun hunting opinions solcitied.
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2006, 08:12:53 AM »
Quote from: jeager106
.......My shots would be limited to about 60 yards max due to the thickness of the woods and, quite frankly my ability with open sights with a handgun.
I've taken many deer but not with the six gun.
I own two Rugers in .45 Colt, a Smith in .44 spl, a 44. mag, a .41 mag, .45 A.C.P. and maybe three or four in .357.
I'm guessing that the .357 is on the light side and guessing the .44, mag, .45 Colt, .41 would all be perfectly suitable for deer.
That said, what is the best performing bullet wieght in these calibers?
I do handload.
My hunting would be from a tree stand and shots will be under 60 yards, perhaps much closer.
I'm thinking I don't need or want the big heavy wieght bullets for the caliber since any hunting bullet of about any weight will blow through even a big whitetail.
Or am I wrong?
By the way my .44 mags are a M-29 with pinned barrel, recessed chambers and a Ruger old model unaltered 3 screw.
 :grin:



Not sure I'm "awesome" by any means but I'll throw in my remarks anyway. You've a good selection of handguns to kill a deer with, all capable.  The assumption is you are fairly competant with a handgun but just haven't shot a deer with one yet(?). The one thing you fail to mention is barrel length. I would recommend the use any of your magnum handguns plus the .45 Colt that have a barrel of 6+ inches.  As mentioned the ability to hit a paper plate is a good test of your ability. In your case I would put it at your max 60 yards and test your handguns with 6+" barrels using magnum or top end loads. Select the one you are accurate with and are comfortable with. As to bullets any of the standard weight bullets for each cartridge (see list below) will do nicely.

Remember from a tree stand the angle through the deer to the heart is a lot different. Most tree stand shots into the heart/lung area of a deer end up being a high lung shot and missing the heart because the aim is at the center of the chest area.  You really want to put the bullet through the heart or very close to it. When you look at the deer envision a soccer ball low in the chest cavity next to the brisket between the front legs. That is where you want your bullet to go through. Aim appropriately regardless of the angle. A good hit in the soccer ball area will put the deer down much faster than a plain lung shot. Additional the exit wound will be out the bottom of the chest cavity so the deer will bleed out imediately leaving a good blood trail.

If a cast bullet is used any of the standard weight for caliber Keith type SWCs will do. However, the larger the meplat the better. Drive them as fast as accuracy and safety allow from the chosen handgun. I have seen quite a few deer killed with cast bullets of all weights and styles. I've not seen where heavier than normal bullets kill any better than normal weight cast bullets given equal meplats.

I recommend the following jacketed bullets becuase I have seen deer killed with them and know they perform. I'm missing others that work fine too but since I haven't uded them I shant recommend them.

.357; Hornady 158 XTP FP, Sierra 158 JHC, Speer 158 GDHP, Win 158JHP and Rem 158 SP all at 1400+ fps.

.41 Magnum; Rem 210 SP, Speer 210 GDHP and Hornady 210 XTP all at 1350+ fps

.44 Maganum; Hornady 200 XTP HP, Speer 200 Magnum JHP both at 1500 fps, Rem 240 JHP, Sierra 440 HC, Speer  240 GDHP all 240s at 1350+ fps.

.45 Colt; Hornady .451 230 XTP at 1200 +/- fps, Hornady 250 XTP (not the magnum one) at 1350 fps, Speer 250 GDHP at 1150 fps.

Over the years I've seen quite a few deer killed with older jacked bullets too but many are no longer available. The ones listed are still readily available. That's my advise, the rest is up to you. Good hunting and good shooting a and do let us know your choice and results.

Larry Gibson

Offline jeager106

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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2006, 10:08:39 AM »
Thanks Larry for the info on bullets that you know will work.
Your assumption is right I've never taken a legal deer in hunting season with a handgun.
I have however killed two deer with a handgun but they don't really count.
One was with a 2" Smith Chiefs Spl. and the other with a .4506 Smith .45 a.c.p.
The poor deer I dispatched with the .38 snub was a mercy killing during rabbit season after our Ohio slug slaughter.
I found her hobbling on ONE leg the other three SHOT OFF!!!
The one dispatched with the 4506 was in a barber shop.
(no kidding)
I did 22 years in the mean streets before finally being diabled in the line.
I was Lt. Commander of SWAT and firearms instructor.
I'm skilled at tactical pistolcraft but that ain't hunting.
All my handgun toys sport 6" to 7.5" barrels.
I simply need to practice aming as most of my shooting was s.h.t.f. stuff, point and pray.
That said I did demostrate to a class of rookies how accurate a good combat handgun can be.
Going prone with the 4506 and Remingtons then awsome 185 grain +P load I could put 8 rounds in the K-5 at one hundred yards.
I would balance the head of the sillouette on my front sight and the boolits would drop right  in the K - 5 clustering a tight 6 " group.
That ways wowed the kids on the block.

Offline corbanzo

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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2006, 11:21:14 AM »
You gotta watch out for those problem deer!!  Might run up that tree and rob you! :-D  :-D  :-D
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline Gregory

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Re: Handgun hunting opinions solcitied.
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2006, 11:29:18 AM »
Quote from: jeager106
This is open to any one that would care to comment.
I am very fortunate to live on 14 acres of woods surrounded by ..............by... NUTTIN'!
Actually I have no close neighbors and that's rare for N.E. Ohio.
I have also been cultivating a small herd of local deer and there are at least three wall hanger bucks in the bunch, often they hang out behind the house.
 :grin:


I don't think any of your guns are adequate for deer.  You should invite me over to rid your property of those pesky deer (especially the wall hangers).  I'll be using my scoped 357 Maximum Contender, which should be good out to 100 yds.  It's accounted for a few Illinois deer so far.

 :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D
Greg

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the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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Offline riddleofsteel

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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2006, 12:58:30 PM »
I can remember when the .357 Mag was considered the daddy rabbit of handgun cartridges. I used to read articles all the time where some gun writer or another had dispatched a huge animal like polar bears or elk with his trusty .357.
Soon after that I purchased the first 6" 686 S&W I saw in a gun shop and mounted a 4X Leupold EER scope on it. Crafting loads with 180 grain hardcast wad cutters at maximum velocities I felt ready to kill anything. While a polar bear or elk never ran past my NC tree stand a good many white tail deer did come my way. At distances of from point blank to 125 yards I got thru and thru penetration with the 180 grain loads. Often there was a fine mist of blood and deer clockwork on the ground where the hits were made. I can honestly say I never lost a deer fairly hit with that pistol.
Later on I gave in to the blatherings of "experts" and traded it on a 6" S&W 629 Classic that carried the same Leupold 4X EER scope. Dozens of deer fell to it loaded with 200 grain Nosler SJHP's. However, I don't remember them being any deader than the ones killed with the .357 686.
These days I hunt with an open sighted Blackhawk in .45 Colt loaded with 300 grain Hornady XTP HP's for deer and hard cast 270 or 300 grain SWC's for everything else. I like the easy cary of a non-scoped revolver and the challenge of shots limited to 50 yards or so.
All of this reminds me of a quote I read many years ago. In reference to selection of a handgun cartridge; If you can shoot the .357 is enough gun for any game east of the Mississippi. If you can't shoot there is not much future in anything bigger.
...for him there was always the discipline of steel.

They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night.
Song of Solomon 3:8

Offline jeager106

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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2006, 07:23:43 PM »
riddleofsteel:
Great point you just made.
I'm 59 and well remember teh .357 being the "do all end all" of handgun rounds.
Then in about 1955 the .44 magnum came out and people with bucks to spend on guided hunts as well as gun scribes promptly slew everything with fur that walked, crawled or slithered.
The .44 magnum was the 'end all' of handgun rounds.
Now we have the .454, .460, .480, .475. 500 et.al. and one wonders why the .41 magnum is even still live.
One has to wonder also how dead is dead?
Like I mentioned in my previous post here how much more effective
is the .500 magnum over the like of the .44 magnum at handgun ranges?
It simply isn't any more effective.
Certainly more powerful, but dead is still dead isn't it?
For those of you that want the really big boomers please understand I'm not knocking these monsters at all.
This is still the good old U.S. of A. and we are allowed to have what we want with our hard earned bucks.
Wanting something is plenty enough reason to buy a new gun.
After all I own several handguns all of which are entirely capable of taking any game I care to hunt with a handgun at hadgun ranges.
If I had to settle on one caliber I still think it would be my Bisley Blackhawk in the much under rated .45 Colt.

Offline Questor

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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2006, 05:19:14 AM »
I prefer the 44 because it's no more difficult to shoot than the 357. One of the deterrents to good shooting for the 357 and the 44 is muzzle blast, not recoil. I had a much harder time accepting the blast than the recoil.  The 44 has undergone a lot of development for the specific purpose of hunting whereas the 357 has been developed more for defense and police work.

I tend to prefer hunting guns that were developed for hunting. Take the .270 for example. If I buy a bullet for my 270 I know it what cartridge it was developed for and what velocities it works best at. Although there are exceptions in the case of the .44 magnum, this is still largely true for the 44.  

One interesting insight I got from a guy who runs a hunting preserve is that his worst customers are the cops who have too much faith in the 357. They use the wrong bullets and the pig hunt very often turns into a chore of tracking a wounded animal.  

I'm not against the 357, but I am against using it without proper consideration for bullets. My choice would be the very heavy 170 to 180 grain hard cast bullets, or something comparable.
Safety first

Offline Scott T

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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2006, 05:24:18 PM »
Since almost all of your guns will cleanly take a deer, you should think about it like this:  Which one do I shoot the best?  Which one can I count on to place the bullet where I aim?

Then concentrate on shooting that particular gun until you can put ALL of your shots through an 8 inch paper plate at the longest distance you intend to shoot.

Offline longwalker

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which one
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2006, 04:38:45 AM »
All the above advice is good. The question I ask you is which one do you feel most confident with. I have successfully hunted white tails with 357 and 44 magnum. I like the 44 better but that is just me. I also shoot it better.

In my opinion the fun of handgun hunting is in the getting close. It's the 15 and 20 foot shots I'm most proud if.

longwalker