Author Topic: Can-o-worms...shot placement (Read 2623 times)

tripper · « **Reply #30 on:** March 29, 2006, 04:30:21 PM »

Heaveyhual I belief your orignal quistion was would of a neck shot or head shot killed the deer instantly.
1. neck, Yes if the bulet hit the spin hard enough to sever the spinal cord.
2. head, Yes if the bullet or bone fragments made it to the brain.
A head or neck shot is one I will take unless there is no choice, and then I would have to be desperate to take taht deer. I have seen the same guy take two neck shots with his 280 at close range and both deer were lost. He did not hit the spine or jugular.
I agree with the fellow that said different deer will ractact differently to the same hit or near the same hit. One will fall where you hit him and the nest will run 100 yards, you just don't know. I do know that if I place the shot to pass through the heart or lungs it is meat on my table.

WL44 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 30, 2006, 08:12:44 PM »

Reactions of game can differ beacuse of things as simple as whether or not the deer has just breathed in or out when the bullet strikes. Take out the lungs and heart when there's not much oxygenated blood in the muscles and it won't go far at all.

I don't know if there are good US books on bullet placement and so forth, but here in South Africa the book by Kevin "Doctari" Robertson, a well known African PH (and previously veterinarian), The Perfect Shot, is quite highly regarded. It's worth a read, but has pictures based on African game which has slightly different anatomy (so we are told here) to US game. Basically the difference is apparently how far back, or low the hear and lungs sit realtive to the front legs.

I'm sure with after a few autopsies you could transfer all of the principles.

You may find a few sample pages on one of the book selling websites to look at to see if you like it.

Wim

corbanzo · « **Reply #32 on:** March 31, 2006, 08:50:15 AM »

the quickest drop I've ever seen was my buddy shot a cow elk with an 06, the bullet hit it in the shoulder, broke the shoulder, then bounced upward, and broke its spinal cord, exiting the top of the back. Personally, I prefer shoulder shots, because it lessens their ability to run, and less tracking. Bu tracking an animal isn't a bad thing, it's another part of hunting that takes skill and makes it more interesting.

Heavyhaul · « **Reply #33 on:** March 31, 2006, 05:02:06 PM »

I'm listening and trying to file this all in my long term memory. And I don't subscribe to the Dirty Harry "knock'em through the air" shots. I just wanted to get opinions. I'll keep watching.

corbanzo · « **Reply #34 on:** April 01, 2006, 01:06:50 PM »

Speaking of dirty harry... there was another movie, I forgot what it was called, but there was a scene, where two men were on different roof tops, and one shot the other in the leg with a scoped .458lott, and then the guy who was shot limped off. I have a .458lott, and I think it's hilarious, because if you got shot with a .458lott, that part of your leg would be jelly, limping wouldn't be an option.... good old hollywood.

Heavyhaul · « **Reply #35 on:** April 01, 2006, 05:49:09 PM »

Corbanzo, tell me, if you think that a head shot with a 458 Lott would knock a person down backwards if they were coming at you, or would they keep coming. I think that I was taken the wrong way on this topic. I have never heard of a deer dropping in its tracks when shot with a bow. Unless it is a spinal shot. But, with a rifle it happens quit often. I would like to know what would cause this if it is not because of the bullet impact. I saw Graybeards post, and I will try that with my -06. Just to see what happens. I know it doesn't have legs, but what the hay.

corbanzo · « **Reply #36 on:** April 02, 2006, 10:32:51 AM »

No, it wouldn't, not a chance in the hot place. I wasn't saying that it would knock someone over, just that it would destroy any flesh around where it hit. If you shot someone in the head with a .458lott, close, as in they were coming at you, there wouldnt be a whole lot of head left. I took down a 8" round tree with 4 shots. That is the thing about a bullet, it's meant to penetrate and do the damage inside. If you want to knock someone backwards, hit them with a truck.

You can see we had shot it before, with a 9mm, but the lott takes big chunks out, not just little holes.

superjay01 · « **Reply #37 on:** April 08, 2006, 09:00:09 AM »

Every deer that is standing still I take a neck shot on. I either miss it or it drops for the most part. By that I mean the most one has walked off was about ten yards. Most of those shots where with a 30-30. If a deer is running I will take a lung/heart shot, but often end up tracking them.

jeager106 · « **Reply #38 on:** April 09, 2006, 01:56:37 AM »

Aw what the heck, might as well toss my experiences into the pot.
I shot a really nice wallhanger buck in '94 with an arrow.
The brusier dropped on the spot!
Then got up and ran off, way off. Took me three hours of tracking to find the critter.
I shot a button buck in the shoulder, broadside, with a 30-30 at 80 paces and it dropped in its tracks and never twitched.
Same thing on a doe facing me. The .45 bullet from a muzzle loader hit her in the brisket and she dropped and never blinked.
I found the bullet in a rear ham.
We are required to use the shottie with slugs in Ohio so most of my deer have been taken with the 12 bore.
I had a buck facing me at about 100 paces and put a slug in the brisket.
It ran nearly 200 yards.
The slug hit in the brisket and I found it near his 'exit' hole.
I once shot a buck at very close range, a few FEET, with a slug that hit the shoulder joint. The deer fell down but got back up requiring another shot.
The slug hit the shoulder joint and came apart not penetrating past the bone. (foster slugs are poor penetrators by the way)
In fact the only slug taken deer that dropped right now were spine shots.
GB and others speak the truth about bullets NOT knocking living critters over.
Can't happen. Physics don'cha'know.
The head shot in my opinion is a poor shot to take under field conditions, even for squirrels.
I onec took a sure had shot and pulled the shot a half inch.
The poor critter had a hickory nut in its mouth and the bullet hit the nut taking most of the face off the fuzzy wuzzy and it ran of through the trees.
It went a pretty good way considering the damage and fell out of the top of an oak deader than a free lunch.
That stopped my macho attempts at head shots on game.
Alos I once took a meat doe that some one else took a shot at and missed and it ran right past me. I hit the thing running three times before she dropped dead.
The guy that shot at the doe in the 1st place came up to me as I was feild dressing the doe saying he took a head shot but missed.
He didn't miss! The doe had no jaw!
The hunter refused to believe he blew the jaw off the deer saying the head shot was either "hit or miss".
Tain't so.
Center of lung will take game.
No senes trying to prove marksmanship skills on critters.

Graybeard · « **Reply #39 on:** April 09, 2006, 05:25:58 AM »

While this is likely to make some of you unhappy so be it.

Anyone who claims a head/neck shot is ALWAYS a drop on the spot kill or clean miss are showing a serious lack of real world experience. Folks it just ain't so.

Heavyhaul · « **Reply #40 on:** April 14, 2006, 06:34:14 PM »

I will agree with the "drop on the spot kill or clean miss". I presented this question because I know that we are all taught to shoot at the heart-lung shot, but alot of what I read has pistol shooter, some with great experience, taking the neck shot. So, me being me, I thought that I would throw it out there.

PaulS · « **Reply #41 on:** April 15, 2006, 06:11:15 PM »

Heavyhaul,

If every time you shot a neck shot the deer either drops or walks away I would venture to say that there are som wounded animals out there with holes in the neck that are not immediately fatal. I have seen deer with head and neck wounds that had begun to turn from age when they were shot and killed. A poor neck shot won't apear to be hit at all but they fester, turn gangrenous and eventualy are the cause of death for the poor suffering animal. There is only about a two inch area of the deer's neck that is a vital area, just a bit too far from the spine and you only nick the throator miss even the esophogus and just run the bullet through the muscles of the neck. The deer bolts, and you think you have a clean miss. The deer slowly dies from starvation, infection or slow blood loss and predation from other animals. It is almost never a hit or miss situation.

Heavyhaul · « **Reply #42 on:** April 18, 2006, 10:10:29 AM »

Graybeard, I try not to let emotions into these type of things. I have taken and seen other take deer with neck shots without any problems. I they were tracked it was only with our eyes. They all dropped within sight. I know that I am far from being an expert. Ask questions and learn. Iknow that we sometimes only learn from our own, usually bad, experiences. But I make an honest effort to learn from other peoples bad experiences when I can. I seem to get myself into enough predicaments before I think. Don't hold back. I can take it :wink:
:grin:

GBO MGMT · « **Reply #43 on:** April 18, 2006, 10:54:40 AM »

The problem with the neck shot is execution. Properly executed the shot will indeed drop them "on the spot" as it hits the spine and is an instant death. But poorly executed it can mean the shooter assumes the deer was missed when it fact as Paul S has said it was only wounded and will go off somewhere to die a horrible death and never be recovered.

Probably most shooters do not know the deer's anatomy well enough to properly execute the shot every time even if nothing goes wrong. Too many neck shots wind up taking out not the spine but only a blood vessel or worse yet the breathing mechinism and they deer goes a long way looking like a miss and then dies.

All I'm saying is this: If you think ALL NECK SHOTS are clean immediate kills or clean misses you just don't have enough experience behind you YET.

Heavyhaul · « **Reply #44 on:** April 22, 2006, 06:29:29 PM »

The whole thing that brought this subject up is a shot that I made 18 years ago. WOW, I'm getting old. Any way, I was shooting too far at a deer, and the long story short, after too many shots, I fired and it dropped. When I got to the deer the fatal shot was just behind the esophagus, half way up the neck. I will say that it was a lucky-bad shot. I was just suprised that it dropped mid-step. It was not intentional, but very effective. I am not promoting this. I am merely looking to find if this is something out of the ordinary.