Author Topic: Problem chambering (Read 725 times)

Blammer · « **on:** May 01, 2006, 11:15:23 AM »

Ok here is the scoop and I need some suggestions as to why or the cause of this.

I have a NEF in 243 Win.

I took some brass, full length resized loaded and shot a mild load in.

the rifle stayed closed until after the shot then I broke it open to take out the shell. IT came out per usual.

Now the fun begins. I take the same shell I just took out, and try to put it back into the gun and the action won't close.

More info: Gun was cold and only shot one time.

measured the length of the fired case it was 2.035. I trimmed it to 2.022 and it still won't chamber.

I full lenght resized it and tried it again, still won't chamber and the length is 2.025 now.

I tried two different sets of dies and full lenght resized it in each and after each it still won't chamber. It seems as if I have a few thousandths still poking out.

gun closes easily with gun empty.

any ideas?

mt3030 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2006, 12:58:38 PM »

Does it chamber factory new loads? If so, tight chamber needing Small Base Dies.

Wally

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2006, 04:27:03 PM »

My bet is that you are not getting the sizing die fully down the case. Make sure (with the case in the die) that the sizing die is touching the shell holder when you size it. Lots of presses have enough flex in them to touch when there is no case in it but not touch when actucally sizing the brass. Larry

Blammer · « **Reply #3 on:** May 01, 2006, 06:17:59 PM »

factory ammo chambers fine before and after firing, at least the two cases I tried.

I definitely had the die screwed down far enough with the shell holder raised up all the way, so short seating the die was not the issue, good thinking though...

dodd3 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 01, 2006, 10:59:43 PM »

blamer dont no weather you have tryed this but screw the die till it tuches the shell holder then then move the rame away from the die and turn the die 1/8 of a turn down more and resize a case and try it in the rifle. my budy has a 224 weatherby mag he had the same problem he did what i told you to do and it fixed the problem .hope this will help.
bernie :grin:

Blammer · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2006, 05:58:16 AM »

thanks dodd- I did just that already no dice....

I am wondering if my chamber may be a bit too long...

Mac11700 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2006, 06:25:52 AM »

From your post..

Quote

More info: Gun was cold and only shot one time.

measured the length of the fired case it was 2.035. I trimmed it to 2.022 and it still won't chamber.

I full lenght resized it and tried it again, still won't chamber and the length is 2.025 now.

The max SAMMI case lenght for the 243 is ..2.045"...and your fired cases are 2.035"..you shouldn't have to trim them at all yet...

You have a few thousandth's poking out?...ok..What is your frame to barrel gap..

It should be the same amount...get a feeler gauge and measure it..This is what I set my dies to...

1) Perhaps your not lubricating the inside of the necks properly...use a good lubricant like Hornady 1 shot and make sure your getting the inside of the neck lubricated properly..it helps a great deal...

2) Perhaps your expander ball isn't sized correctly on you die sets..and your distorting the cases when you pull the case back down with the ram..and most likely your moving the shoulder as well..

This is what I would do..I wouldn't trim the cases at all...Then I would neck size the case the lenght of the neck only..just infront of the shoulder neck juction...you'll have to smoke the case neck to see this...You have to make sure your getting some type of lubricant inside the case on the neck surface...By using your paticular die sets..either your not getting a good fit in the neck and it's too tight or your not lubricating it properly.. After neck sizing only and using a good lubricant..(I used Hornady 1 shot..)..I would remeasure your cases and see if your still lenghting them on neck sizing..if you are..you can polish the expander ball a tiny bit and this should help..

I neck size all of my cases until I can no-longer load them..then I bump the shoulder back a tiny bit and retrim if needed..A necked sized case will fit the chamber of the rifle better..it will be a tighter fit..and in most cases..give you better accuracy..not always though..just keep that in-mind..

If your still having problems after doing this..I would suggest calling Bronwnells and ordering some Cerro-Safe and making a chamber casting of you rifle...This way you can know for sure your chamber diemensions are correct If they are correct this will aid you in handloading ..If you find the chamber dimension aren't correct and out of specs for what NEF has them...then you can take the appropiate steps of getting the barrel replaced thru the C/S department of NEF..

Mac

PS:..Is this a extractor barrel or a ejector barrel???

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #7 on:** May 02, 2006, 08:45:01 AM »

It may be getting some spring in the action when firing,and when you try to put the fired cartridge back it in,it's to big to go.If it is'nt locking up real tight and the barrel moving foward when shot it will let the brass swell farther out. Digger

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 02, 2006, 09:18:21 AM »

QUOTE:

"factory ammo chambers fine before and after firing, at least the two cases I tried."

So Factory ammo functions in your rifle, and the fired brass will chamber again without it being worked?

You said you tried a mild load--
-What is the load? Case-powder-primer-bullet?

Is your reload straight out of the book or have you made any substitutions?

Are you using resized brass from the same rifle?

Is your brass made from another caliber, like 7-08, or are you using 243 Win. brass?

Blammer · « **Reply #9 on:** May 02, 2006, 04:35:08 PM »

I trimmed extry short on the one case to rule out that it was too long.

yes the factory brass will chamber with out being reworked.
I also took one of the factory ones FL resized it trimmed to proper length, and it fit just fine! go figure...

My frame to barrel gap when closed on an empty chamber is nill.

when I put a "problem" case into the chamber the "butt" poke out about a thousandth or so, hard to measure...

I use a neck brush with motor mica and brush well before resizing. (I'll double check the results before sizing next time, good idea!)
Just neck sizing to see if that is the problem is also a good idea! I'll try that too.

My relaod is as follows right out of the book.

Winchester 243 brass 2 times previously fired in another rifle.

Brass was full lenght resized and trimmed to 2.035 length.

CCI 200 primers

34 gr of IMR4895 nolser book max is 35.5, min is 31.5

95 gr Nosler BT bullet used

LOA is 2.795, not touching the lands when loaded.

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2006, 04:55:50 PM »

So, if you fire factory ammo in your Handi the fired brass will chamber no problem, and fired cases from another rifle will not, even after F/L sizing.

It seems to me that the other rifle's chamber is larger enough in some (or several) dimension that your dies cannot size them enough to fit into the handi's chamber.

Take a case fired in the other rifle, F/L size it, remove all lube, then smoke it all over using a candle or something, then push it into the handi's chamber as far as you can with your finger. Pull it out and see where it's rubbing (I'll bet it's rubbing somewhere near the web of the case).

You may need small base dies to use cases fired in the other rifle interchangably. Or, just keep the fired cases separated only use cases fired in the handi for reloads to be used in the handi.

Digger has a good point about the action flexing--is your handi new? I'm asking here if you know whether or not the barrel was fitted to a frame that can handle the 243.

Also, if the book max charge is 35.5, and you're using 34.0, that is not a "mild" load. It is a hot load. My nosler book is the #3, it shows the primer used in the 243 data as rem 9-1/2, but I don't know which manual you're using so I'll not dissect your load any further. It may be OK in the other rifle and too hot for the handi especially if the chamber of your handi is a min. tolerance chamber and the other is near max. tolerance.

Out of curiosity, what is the other rifle?

Blammer · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2006, 03:35:18 PM »

OK I FOUND THE PROBLEM!

FIRST: Thanks to everybody's suggestions! While contemplating at the work bench I was recalling the suggestion I got from here and they reall did help!

info: using Nosler reloading manual #4

the other rifle WAS a Rem 700 until it got stolen many a year ago (10 or so now....)

the NEF is new and this is the factory barrel I got on it, no swap jobs or other....

back to the resolution. The small base dies will not fix the problem as the problem is not in the web but in the shoulder.

Or specifically the slope between the neck and the case body.

I decided enough was enough and went through my entire proceedure of resizing again.

out of sheer despiration and PO'd mode, I cranked the die down another turn and made the ramrod on the Rockchucker "cam over" instead of just touching.

I said "screw it I am gonna crank this mother..." and so I did. I lubed a "trouble case" with good lube and motor mic'ed the inside of the neck really really really good. (remember I'm in PO'd mood...

)

Well when the shell poped out I miked for lenght, no change. 2.035 and shoved it in the chamber and "snaped" it closed just as easy as you please!

Then I looked over the case and there is a "band" maybe 1/16 inch wide just down the shoulder from the neck that is "shiney" from the resizing. This band, now showing (which was invisible because it was not resized or touched) seemed to be holding the case out that thousandth or so that was giving grief for loading. With this "band" or section of case properly resized the shells work perfectly! I tested it on a few other problem cases and BINGO!

I also found out that I have one TIGHT fitting rifle and there is a very fine line between being closed for shooting and closed for GOOD! When closed for shooting I can see a hairline of light between the breech and face and it causes bad formed brass. (hence the problems). When closed for good, it is just that!

Also can now tell by the amount the bolt catch lever is up or down how closed it is.