Author Topic: Marlin .450 (Read 836 times)

rms4570hr · « **on:** May 07, 2006, 04:59:58 AM »

Has anyone tried the new marlin .450

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** May 07, 2006, 05:16:52 AM »

New??? It's not so new, was introduced in 2000, it is no longer available as a complete rifle in a Handi, just an accessory barrel. In a Handi, it's a ballistic twin to the .45-70 of which there are many here than love it, but not many 450M shooters.

Tim

rms4570hr · « **Reply #2 on:** May 07, 2006, 06:05:03 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo

New??? It's not so new, was introduced in 2000, it is no longer available as a complete rifle in a Handi, just an accessory barrel. In a Handi, it's a ballistic twin to the .45-70 of which there are many here than love it, but not many 450M shooters.

Tim

Hehehe thats what i ment to say accessory barrel in .450 marlin.I'd figure i would try one of these barrels with the new hornady leverelvolution ammo and see how it does.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** May 07, 2006, 06:42:42 AM »

None of the big bore Leverevolution ammo is available yet, maybe by the time you get the barrel tho. :wink:

Tim

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/leverevolution.asp

rms4570hr · « **Reply #4 on:** May 07, 2006, 02:48:56 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo

None of the big bore Leverevolution ammo is available yet, maybe by the time you get the barrel tho. :wink:

Tim

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/leverevolution.asp

Yeah that's what i hoping on

rms270hr

Fred M · « **Reply #5 on:** May 08, 2006, 01:10:11 PM »

Tim.
That 450 Marlin seams to be a real bomb. I have been playing with loads on my computer program. It looks to me the 450 Marlin it has more power available than the 45-70.

It also has a bit nore usable cas volume and the psi rating is aso higher.

These big bores are wicked. That 375 Winchester is rated at 64ksi no wonder these babies kick.
The 375H&H is rated at 62.4ksi.

If any body is loading the 375 Win in a Handi he better watch for the pressure.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2006, 04:14:48 PM »

This is Hodgdon's data....Looks like the .450M gets there with less pressure if CUP=PSI in .458".

Tim

.450M max loads 400gr Speer
H335 55gr = 1953fps @41.6kpsi
H4198 45.5gr = 1958fps@ 42.6kpsi

.45-70 max loads(Ruger/modern rife level) 400gr Speer
H335 60gr = 2057fps @ 49.8kcup
H4198 53gr = 2108fps @ 49.1kcup

Fred M · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2006, 05:55:51 PM »

Tim.
Here is a formula that converts PSI to CUP not 100% reliable but a good yard stick. Not regcognized by Hodgdon. But it gives us stumplers an idea.

formula:
PSI=(1.516 X CUP) -17902

50000cupx1.516-17902 = 57898psi.
60000PSI +17902:1.516= 51396cup

The 450 marlin is rated at 43.5 ksi
The 45-70 is rated at 31.9ksi

Here is a Quick LOad for the 45-70 at 57.4 ksi Vel. 2111ft with 400gr Speer bullet.. Pretty close of what you have.

28" barrel 45.3gr H4227 Seatig depth. .527. Useable case Vol. in Ho2 57.1gr. Powder burn 100%

In a solid bolt rifle both can be loaded to 50kcup In a Handi you would be pushing it.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** May 08, 2006, 06:23:04 PM »

Fred, if 50kcup is pushing it, how can you explain the .500S&W being a factory chambered offering at 60kpsi?

Tim

stuffit · « **Reply #9 on:** May 08, 2006, 11:14:12 PM »

According to "Ammoguide.com" the case capacity of the 45-70 and the .450 Marlin is identical at 72 grs of H20. Is there any reason why loads for the two are not 100% interchangable? It'd seem the "usable case volume" would be the same, bullet weight, chamber throats, and seating depth being constant?
:wink:
stuffit

Fred M · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2006, 05:52:19 AM »

Tim

Quote

Fred, if 50kcup is pushing it, how can you explain the .500S&W being a factory chambered offering at 60kpsi?

270,308 and 25-06 are also made by the factories at 62.5ksi. My 25-06 compared to the Ruger produced a velocity at over 100ft/sec less than the Ruger with any load I tried.

If the Handi barrel in the 500 S$W is anything like the 44Mag .003" oversize, you be lucky to get 50ksi.
And god knows how oversize the chamber is. I guess you all heard of build in pressure relieve valves.

The next question would be, why not chamber the Handi for the big magnums like the 458 WIN mag they only operate at 62ksi.

I shot a .003" gap into my 257Roberts using loads of 55-56ksi. The 25-06 shot loose with 300 rounds not anywhere near design psi and velocity.

At 60ksi and the liberal thrust area of this monster .500 cartridge, you wont be long and you stretched the heck out of the action. No it wont come appart.

So when I say you are pushing it at 55ksi, you actually are. But my non scientific comments have perhaps no credibility, but I am not walking around blindfolded.

I feed my two Handis with food they love, in turn I get
super performance and no belly aches. By the way they are the two best handling rifles I own.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2006, 10:10:19 AM »

Thanks Fred. :wink:

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2006, 12:10:57 PM »

Stuffit.

Quote

According to "Ammoguide.com" the case capacity of the 45-70 and the .450 Marlin is identical at 72 grs of H20.

The information I have on case volume to overflow shows the 45-70 at 78.99gr H2o and the 450 Marlin at 74.0gr H20. Not excactly identical.

5.0grH20 would represent an advantage of 4.7gr of powder with the same bullet seating.

Besides the 45-70 has a case length of 2.105" while the 450 Marlin is 2.008"

No two different calibers are ever totally interchangeable, nor should it be assumed, since they have different throats, leads freebore and lands depth and of course different psi ratings and what else have you.

Tim.
You are welcome. Tomorrow I be close to where you are. Turn up a BIG smoke signal we might see it from where we are.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** May 09, 2006, 01:39:16 PM »

Fred, where might that be???

Tim

rms4570hr · « **Reply #14 on:** May 09, 2006, 02:34:22 PM »

Hey guys i just found out that i can use the 45-70 during muzzle loading season here in mississippi so now i kinda leaning to wards the 45-70.

rms270hr

Fred M · « **Reply #15 on:** May 09, 2006, 02:41:01 PM »

Tim
Twassen BC, just down the street from Point Roberts WA. Just accross the bay from Bellingham.

stuffit · « **Reply #16 on:** May 09, 2006, 03:19:16 PM »

Fred,
I appreciate your response to my questions. After reading my own post, it was apparent that I had not made the qualification of applyilng the idea of near interchangability of loading data exclusively to Handi Rifles and other modern-type rilfes manufactured with state of the art materials and having similar action strenth. There are, of course, many, many instances when the use of even "nearly-the-same" data could result in disaster. I apologize for the ambiguity.

The contradiction on the case volume is interesting. One would expect the difference in case length (ammoguide gives the .450 Marlin at 2.084) as a result of engineering a "near-twin" ballistic potential with the belted case.
:oops:
stuffit

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** May 09, 2006, 03:28:16 PM »

Fred,

Umm, that's just a little too far for a cup of coffee.....I'm 300 miles south of Point Roberts, any farther and I'd be in Oregon!!

Enjoy your trip!!! :wink:

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #18 on:** May 09, 2006, 04:36:24 PM »

Stuffit.
As usual different sources provide different data, I got my data from Quick Load and most of it checks out quite well.

I never had much to do with these big bores except for the 375H&H and the 458 Win Mag. They were fun at one time but not anymore.

Neither the 45-70 nor the 450 Marlin are of any interest to me. That 375 Winchester is about all I can stand for recoil.

Here is a bit of good reading and an ANSI design drawing on the 450 Marlin.

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?magid=30&tocid=416

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/450m_techb.htm

stuffit · « **Reply #19 on:** May 09, 2006, 05:09:13 PM »

Thanks for the links. Interesting data.
s.