Author Topic: 7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem  (Read 1124 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BlackWolf

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 78
7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem
« on: April 11, 2006, 03:37:17 PM »
Trying to compare these 2 calibers...  It looks like the WSM has the advantage in velocity and engery but most things that I have read like to talk about the advantage of the availability of ammo for the rem.  Any thoughts on this comparison?  

Sort of liking the Browning A-Bolt Stainless Stalker or Savage 16FCSS (or of course the 116FCSS for the rem).  Any opinions on these 2 calibers as well as these 2 rifles would be much appreciated.

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: 7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2006, 06:18:05 PM »
Quote from: BlackWolf
Trying to compare these 2 calibers...  It looks like the WSM has the advantage in velocity and engery but most things that I have read like to talk about the advantage of the availability of ammo for the rem.  Any thoughts on this comparison?  

Sort of liking the Browning A-Bolt Stainless Stalker or Savage 16FCSS (or of course the 116FCSS for the rem).  Any opinions on these 2 calibers as well as these 2 rifles would be much appreciated.


Show me a 7mm WSM load from a respectable source and I think I can show you a 7mm Mag handload that will beat it.

For example:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

2950fps = 160g Nosler Accubond, Winchester web site
2990fps = 160g Fail Safe, Winchester web site

2976fps = 160g Speer SPBT/SP/MT/GS, Speer #12
3000fps = 160g Barnes XFB, Barnes #3
3000fps = 162g Hornady SST/BTSP/A-MAX, Hornady 5th
3112fps = 160g Nosler Partition/Partition Gold/Fail Safe, Nosler 5th

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

3200fps = 150g Power Point, Winchester web site

3248fps = 150g Nosler Partition/Ballistic Silvertip/Fail Safe, Nosler 5th


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

3225fps = 140g Accubond, Winchester web site
3225fps = 140g Ballistic Silvertip, Winchester web site

3340fps = 140g Nosler Partition/Ballistic Silvertip/Fail Safe, Nosler 5th

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The point is the two are extremely similar in terms of ballistics, especially if you handload. Look at ammo costs and availability and the rifles each is chambered in, then make your decision.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline nomosendero

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2006, 06:42:04 PM »
All hype aside, the 7RM is a little faster than a 7WSM, the Rem. has more capacity. With handloads, the Rem. will be faster than the WSM IF loaded to equal pressures.

Remember, that the WSM factory ammo is loaded at higher pressures than the 7RM in order to show it as being faster, a pretty sorry trick.

I know where you can by a 7WSM Coyote worth the money if you want it.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline BlackWolf

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 78
7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2006, 02:26:28 AM »
Thank you both very much for that data!  I found a Ruger M77 MkII 7mm Rem Mag with a Leupold VxI 4-12 power scope - only slightly used, only mark is on the scope itself: total package price was I think $447.  Seriously thinking about that gun, what barrel length do you guys like for the Rem Mag and which manufacturer can I count on for a dependable rifle.  I was liking what I read about savages but last night I picked up a 7mm mag in one and the bolt was "sticky" at best.  With a browning it was smoother but had a noticable rattle in the action.  I've had good luck with my .270 Ruger M77, should I look more seriously at that used 7mm or would I do better to look at the tikka/weatherby type rifles - I know that the .300 WSM Weatherby Vanguard I fondled several times in the last 3 months has an action as smooth as butter!  Also - what type of bullets do you reccomend in this caliber for deer hunting, I've heard some stories about lots of lost meat from deer shot at close range!

Offline Jim n Iowa

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 758
7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2006, 12:35:43 PM »
I have the Ruger M77 in a 338 mag. This rifle is very similar to the pre 64 mod 70 Winchester concerning the action. The trigger is easily adjusted down under 3LBS (if you can find a smith that will do it). I also have a 7mm mag in a mod 70 Winchester that is also a favorite. A good choice and I believe a good buy.
Jim

Offline nomosendero

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2006, 11:20:48 AM »
I have used several Rugers over the years & they are not my personal pick, the Rems & Savages are usually more accurate. I have a friend that owns a Ruger 7mm that shoots great, so it sometimes happens. BTW, I had 1 in 7mm Mag one time that would shoot, they just aren't as predictable in this regard as a some. But, I am looking at that price & I would buy it. That scope would be worth $150.00 to me any day, so if your Ruger does not shoot, you should be able to get $300.00 out of it or 300 in trade to get another 7mm Mag. If it does shoot, you are good to go, to me you can't lose.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline crash87

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 408
7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2006, 04:54:50 AM »
To compare the two in my mind would be time better spent at the range shooting. I see the new cartridge introduced for the sake of something new, but there is really nothing wrong with that. As you can see the velocity race is a draw, unless you can find a game animal who can read ballistic charts. Although it would seem most gunwriters find favor with the new short mag. Remember though that the now, long mag, was the short mag when introduced all those years ago. Heres are some reasons we've been led to believe that new is the way to go:
1. Short/fat powder column is more accurate, lets not forget the less "felt" recoil. (My favorite)
2. With a 1/2" shorter action, its stiffer, making it flex less, there by a little bit more accurate. Example: 7/8" as opposed to M.O.A. Then you can use the prefix "Sub".
3. Because its shorter you can use a shorter barrel, 24 compared to a 26, or 22 as compared to a 24 and still have the equal to the longer barrel.
  I've used barrel lentghs up to 26" in my cramped Wi deer blind, and barrels down to 18 1/2", I've never really felt hindered by barrel length, actually never really thought about it.
4. Lets not forget the factory advertised 10fps edge to the new short. Also that gunwriters get to go on hunts sponsered by the people who market these products. (Free hunts) Heck I'd make up advantages too.
 5. Saving the best for last. With a 1/2" shorter bolt throw there's less chance for "short stroking" (gun writer term) there by eliminating the offending jam. Or another way of saying that a person doesnt know how  a bolt action works. As a shooter/owner of the long mags, I've also have had experience with the new kid. I can say I won't be getting rid of any of my old favorites. Reduntantcy comes to mind in comparing.
   24" is a good length to go in the 7mm Rem. Bullet choice is a matter of what you would like to try. Velocity is what you want to control. I've gone to reduced loads for my Wi. deer hunting. Shots taken between 35 and 120 yds. Yes you could say why not a 7mm08 or 308,( I do), but now I could use the term versatility. Any high velocity round is going to reek havoc on tissue giving you an excessive blood shot meat trimming job. If not a handloader you could try Remingtons reduced velocity factory loads. You could also go with a premium controled expansion bullet, somewhat eliminating the capillary explosiveness or try a, heavy for caliber, bullet, And yes they will expand on the thin skin of the lowly Whitetail Deer.
   As far as a smooth bolt throw, try it with ammo, you'd be surprised as how the smoothness turns into jerky unpleasantness. ( I do realize that can't be done in the gun/grocery stores.), but if you have any of those shops that are on the endangered list, you know, The Gun shop, they might let you.
  I own Rifles in all the popular makes Remington, Ruger, Winchester, and have had in my possesion to shoot extensivly Weatherby's, MarkV and Vangaurd, along with some commercial Mausers. There all excellent quality, but like anything there can be a lemon. Fortunatley in my experience there far and few between. Enjoy shooting.
                                     CRASH87

Offline nomosendero

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2006, 07:06:27 AM »
crash87
Good post Sir. It is amazing to me and a little deceiving how gun writers skim over the fact that the Short Mags are loaded to higher pressures in order to get comparable velocities. I think it is fine if someone wants a short mag, I just don't want them to tell me that the short mags are faster, just because they read a factory ballistic chart.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2006, 03:00:43 PM »
Quote from: BlackWolf
...Seriously thinking about that gun, what barrel length do you guys like for the Rem Mag and which manufacturer can I count on for a dependable rifle.  ...


Mine has a 24" barrel and I wouldn't want a longer one on a 7mm Mag.

As to Ruger rifles in general, I have yet to get one I'm not very happy with.  I float the barrels, polish the triggers and go shooting - same as I would do on any rifle.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline simplicity

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 574
  • Gender: Male
7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2006, 08:56:34 AM »
Well here are my two cents. The 7mm has the advantage when loaded to the higher pressures with the lighter bullets but even with the higher pressures it falls behind with heavier bullets. Remember there is no replacement for displacement. The "It kicks less" statement uuhh think about that before you say it again. Short action rifles weighs slightly less then a long action correct? and if it moves the same bullet at the same velocity there for it has to generate the same force. A guy named Newton came up with this I wonder if he was right. Another thing I'd like to say is on the most part of the 325 wsm the only reason why they went with 8mm is because they couldn't get the 338wsm to surpass the 338win.mag. Course if they have nothing to compete against then of course they can say it's better then sliced bread. I guess what I'm getting at is just about everything you read has a mayjor marketing hype on it and writers are paid to write and companys need new things for people to buy. I'm not saying that the wsm cartridges aren't bad but honestly companys needed something new to sell. As far as a choice between the 7mm rem mag and the 7mm wsm is concerned, My say is the 7mm rem.mag basically because if you handload you can surpas the wsm by a margin, on the average every bolt gun chambered for the rem holds one more round then the wsm.

Offline crash87

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 408
7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2006, 03:23:49 AM »
The example of "less felt recoil" along with the other examples were used to make a point concerning the advertising hype trying to market the new short wonder mags, you will have to read into all those examples the word sarcasm.  
                P.O. Ackley sumed it up best concerning a few cartridges back in the 60's when the same such thing happened. Cartridges trying to replace cartridges that don't need replacment.
 " It was a sad day when modern advertising invaded the feild of guns. It is an even sadder day when writers will pick up these "excuses" and play up the desirable characteristics without mentioning the undesirable ones.With many of these innovations the bad far outweighs the good."  
 Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders, volume ll by P.O. Ackley
     That would be a book with a copyright dated 1962, sound familiar.
                      CRASH87

Offline bmbtek02

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 22
7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2006, 04:36:15 PM »
I have a 7mm rem mag factory bdl rifle out of the box the only problem was trigger lbs so I had my gunsmith lighten it and presto I have embarrassed several "tactical" shooters with hand loads and factory loads and on a good day I can consistently produce 1/2" groups @ 100 yds and it has proved fatal on all kinds of game from coyotes to elk I think it is one of the best all around cartridges ever produced and the availability of ammo is nation wide. Just an opinion though
Be polite, be courtious, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet!
Dying ain't hard for men like us.....its livin thats hard when everything you've had been butchered or killed.

Offline Cheesehead

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3282
  • Gender: Male
short
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2006, 04:00:24 PM »
The only reason I can see for the 7 wsm is to put this round in a true short action rifle. I think it would be great for that. I have been pondering an ultra light short action rifle for some time. Not sure of the caliber yet. Maybe the original short mag,,308 Win.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline nomosendero

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
7mm WSM vs 7mm Rem
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2006, 04:52:06 PM »
Hard to go wrong with that one!
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.