Author Topic: starting out muzzle loading help (Read 1330 times)

lostsniper308 · « **on:** May 19, 2006, 06:58:47 PM »

Well i dove into the world of muzzle loading. Managed to pick up a CVA Plainshunter for $50 from my neighbor. no ramrod but he said he may have one around otherwise a trip to Gander Mt will solve it.
.50 cal, i don't know much about what all i need, my dad owns a cabelas Hawken .54cal and my nieghbor said i could share with my dads supplies except for bullets. I plan on buying powerbelt bullets since thats what he used with it. I understand the basic gist to loading and firing a ML but the cleaning procedure and other how-tos there may be i'm unsure of.

fffffg · « **Reply #1 on:** May 19, 2006, 08:29:57 PM »

just a few starter tips.. keep face and body away from muzzel.. make absolutly sure the ball is on top of the powder.. a very tight load in some circumstances can work back up the barrel becouse of air pressure pushing it back up with some loads.. do not cap nipple until your going to shoot.. if gun does not fire keep it pointed down range for a bit till its sure not to go off with a hangfire.. a dowel from the hardware store will suffice for a beggining rod.. get a steel rod with a ball puller and correct size brush end and jag end soon .. you will probably need the bullet puller sooner than you think, and a wood rod ususally wont do the job.. hook the steel rod (with bullet puller screw screwd tight into the ball) over a limp or rafter and pull down hard.. she will come loose.. its important to get it out so you can clean and oil the barrel so it wont rust.. a piece of rope and a pliers will help this depending on what equipment you end up with.. a flimsy thin steel rod, or aluminum rod will proablby not serve you well for this.. enjoy your new gun, good luck dave..

captchee · « **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2006, 03:29:00 AM »

i dont have a steel RR , never have . A good wood RR will pull balls just fine but it needs to be a good one of proper fit and make .
myself i would forgo the use of a ball puller for the new Co2 dischargers . they can be purchased for percussion and you can later get an adaptor for flint if you ever move in that direction . A patch puller , cleaning jag and yes a ball puller for when there Â‘just isnÂ’t any other wayÂ” are all good things to have in you bag .

I would also go to patch round balls . They are much cheaper to shoot , with the correct loads very accurate.
For hunting they also Â“ against what some folks want you to believeÂ” very suitable , have good penetration with their / your effective range
I have been hunting with strictly traditional muzzleloaders for going on 20 years now . Flintlock exclusively for the last 10 or 12 . Not to mention build from the time I was old enough to get into trouble .
Enjoy yourself , have fun but above all be safe . These are not toys as im sure you know

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2006, 03:38:32 AM »

well i think i'll stick with the Powerbelt bullets.

tscott · « **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2006, 05:38:10 AM »

I have found 295gr Powerbelts to be quite accurate from a 1in48 twist percussion 32" Hawken... Roundball .490 with .10 lubed patch are accurate 1st shot, but from my rifle if I don't spit patch after each roundball shot, accuracy goes south........

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2006, 06:10:44 AM »

LS308,

Did you get the owner's manual for the rifle from the previous owner? If not, contact CVA and ask em to send one to you, it will have load data for your rifle.

If you choose to use a hardwood dowel for a ramrod, pick one with as little runout as possible, that is one with straight grain that continues the entire length of the wood and doesn't have end grain on the side, just the ends. A rod breaking when you're seating a projectile can ruin your day...and your body parts!!

You can built your own ramrod that will work just fine for all cleaning and loading, even ball pulling with the right ramrod ends. Soak the rod in kerosene for a couple weeks inside a PVC pipe with end caps. Fit the brass ends to the rod, then cross drill and pin the ends on.

The other choice is to just get a synthetic rod since you want to shoot powerbelts, anyway!

Start readin... :grin:

Tim

http://www.cva.com/muzz/muzzsafety.htm

http://www.cva.com/media/bp101.html

http://members.aol.com/illinewek/faqs.htm

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2006, 09:00:34 AM »

i read those thanks. i also E-mailed for a manual. now i noticed CVA says not to use Pyrodex pellets yet the previous owner said thats all he used with the Powerbelt bullets. Like i said before my dad owns the Cabelas Hawken .54 and only uses patch-n-ball so i can use his powder, #11 caps, and cleaning supplies right? I'll havta get a ramrod because of the caliber difference and rod end accessories.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2006, 11:52:43 AM »

I've never used pellets, can't see spending the extra money for less loading flexibility, prefer Goex if I could get some, use T7 cuz it's easy to find.

You don't need a lot of cleaning supplies, use old T-shirts for patches cut 1Â½"-2" square, his #11 caps will work, but you might as well buy some of your own, they aren't expensive.

At the range I just wipe with a spit patch, there are many cleaning concoctions, water works about as good as anything.

You will need a .50 cleaning jag which will double as a loading jag for the powerbelts. That needs to fit the ramrod you end up with, make sure the threads match, it will be 8x32 or 10x32.

Pick up a bronze or nylon(Tynex) bore brush of the approapriate thread size, too.

You'll need a nipple wrench or use your Dad's.

Tim

Slamfire · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2006, 02:44:55 AM »

I've heard stories of powerbelts gettin' unseated and down the barrel with several inches of seperation from the powder. I can't testify to this one way or another, but it is worth payin' attention to.

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2006, 03:48:04 PM »

well powerbelts are all this gun has ever seen. My friend dropped off some Buffalo Bullet Co. 'naturally lubricated' .50cal bullets
http://www.thegunsource.com/shopping_viewproduct.aspx?idproduct=37949
anyone used these?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2006, 04:37:01 PM »

I've shot the ball-ets in a .54 cal hawken, they're pretty much a combination between of a knurled conical and a round ball. They shot ok, dunno about the effectiveness on game, probably similar to a round ball. The powerbelts are a better choice as far as I'm concerned, but shoot what your gun shoots best since you have both.

Tim

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2006, 04:45:29 PM »

use the same load data powder charge on the manual?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2006, 04:48:49 AM »

I don't remember for sure, it's been a long time, but I think it would be safe to just use CVA's conical bullet data for the Ball-ets. An email to CVA wouldn't hurt.

Tim

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2006, 05:08:04 PM »

i went to Gander to price check and it would be cheaper to shoot lead ball, but how do they compare to Power-belts? like accuracy and downrange performace on game.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2006, 05:27:55 PM »

Compared to a bullet, a round ball isn't a very efficient projectile at range, but out to 100yds or so, it's a good killer for deer, I've made several one shot kills on deer with .50 cal round balls, the soft lead expands well and creates a good wound channel and they're very accurate.

Tim

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 24, 2006, 12:51:41 PM »

well is there anything wrong with having both:) I like distance shooting i could use lead ball for target practice and Power Belts for deer.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** May 24, 2006, 01:59:07 PM »

Nothing wrong with that except they aren't likely to shoot to the same point without adjusting the sights.

Tim

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 24, 2006, 02:32:05 PM »

of course but as long as i zero for the power-belts i'm good, i can either hold off or just leave it be for practice with lead ball.

captchee · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2006, 02:45:13 PM »

Quote from: lostsniper308

well is there anything wrong with having both:) I like distance shooting i could use lead ball for target practice and Power Belts for deer.

i used round ball in my 54 for dear , black bear and cow elk . they do just fine , as i said above your going to find alot of the hooobala you hear isnt exactly factual . sometimes i wonder if it isnt based on nothing more then getting folks to buy them high end modern conicals at 10X their worth .

now for bull elk , i have a 436 grain solid lead , hollow base ,conical i use . this isnÂ’t because the RB will not do the job , it will as long as i do my part .

but the fact is that here in Idaho our muzzleloader season is often in the rut and bull can be mighty strong critters during that time . compound that with the deep canyons and rims that i hunt I want as much knock down wallop as a person can get . After all in these areas a 60 to 100 yard blood trail can mean the difference from an easy pack , to needing a fork and knife and a few days of hard eatin .

donÂ’t be afraid of the round balls . you do your part , get them within range and place them on the mark and you will have meat. just take the time to learn the load your rifle needs to shoot them

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 24, 2006, 03:54:06 PM »

well, i can use both for now and decide which i like more.

captchee · « **Reply #20 on:** May 25, 2006, 01:06:33 PM »

Quote from: lostsniper308

well, i can use both for now and decide which i like more.

yep you sure can , just take the time to find the correct load for each

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 25, 2006, 04:53:41 PM »

how's everyones thoughts on ball-ets? them Buffalo 270gr Ball-ets i got a box of them to shoot too, are they like an in-between ball and conicals?
i want to replace the fixed rear sight too, any cheap adjustables at Gander Mt.?

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 26, 2006, 05:31:26 PM »

is there a difference between a cleaning jag and the loading jag? the cleaning jag i bought looks just like the jag on my dads .54 which he loads with.

smokepolehall · « **Reply #23 on:** May 28, 2006, 02:14:22 AM »

Ball-ets shoot well and have 100 yd. range or that area fer harvesting game. They will reach out 25 or a little more yardage that prb. They use about same loads, 70gr. to 100gr. of powder. Blk. powder 3f 70 to 85gr. and 2f 80 to 100gr. Don't need more than that on any projectile! Hot water cleans up powder. Fer swabbing between shots make a 50/50solution of 90% alcohol and windshield washer fluid in a bottle, works very well. Been doing this since 1958 and still love it. WD40 will keep the rust bug off, put on patch til soaked run in bore several times. Put it on nipple area well and rub outside metal with it on soft rag.

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 28, 2006, 03:51:08 AM »

%90 alcohol with windshield washer fluid, never heard of that one. how many patches like that between shots, and do you follow with a dry patch?

I got out to the range yesterday, the balls shot wildley one on target one completly off, the ball-ets shot a decent group about a foot low off the target. I only had a 30gr flask to pour from so i did 60gr charges, being new to MLs i wanted to stay away from max charges for now. 50yrds.
the Buffalo ball-ets were given to me, does anyone know where they sell them?

smokepolehall · « **Reply #25 on:** May 28, 2006, 04:50:34 AM »

I use one wet and then one dry but stroke twice with dry patch between my shots at range. Then i do final cleanup with very hot water and then use my WD40 inside and out on all metal.

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 28, 2006, 05:46:12 AM »

ok i get it now. do u know if gander carries pre-lubed ball-ets? and i am getting the idea there is a difference between ball-ets and conicals?

smokepolehall · « **Reply #27 on:** May 28, 2006, 08:38:52 PM »

Yes conicals are different than round balls. I really don't know about Gander Mtn.on ball-ets. They are a combo having a rounded top like a ball and a knurled sides like a conical. They shoot fairly good in slow trist barrels if powder charge is kept reasonable, and they tend to be accurate. You can lube them up with bore butter from T/C or crisco even light covering of dish washing detergent like Dawn. Just don't put too much detergent or some of yer powder charge may get damp.

smokepolehall · « **Reply #28 on:** May 28, 2006, 09:12:01 PM »

Hey there several places to get Ball-ets Cabelas is one and price isn't too bad. Loads in 50 cal. 70-100gr. 3f or 2f blk. powder or pyrodex. I like Goex and Swiss Blk. Yer ML will tell you the load it likes by the group size. No need to ever go over 100gr. there be folks trying to make mag.s out of ML's. I assure you a deer will never know if you shot it with 90gr. or 110gr. and thats a fact! I am too old to get into a young ones thinking that they have to use 150gr. so called mag. load. Bust barrels and body parts is where that will get a person if lucky, if not then cemetary will get whats left! Great sport and lots of fun shooting ML's so enjoy it.

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 29, 2006, 12:56:06 AM »

i'll stay with 90grns i think. the ball-ets i have are pre-lubed so i don't need to use detergent