Author Topic: Handi Carbine project..Ideas?  (Read 3981 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jbtazgrabber

  • Trade Count: (20)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 749
ee
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2006, 08:19:49 PM »
just got in from iowa this weekend got to be back monday morn....i  had 3 357 maxs....and still have a 445 sm.all in handys........all my kids had there own handy.... some were under 5 ibs. with scope....none were handy barrels from the factory..they were numrich barrel in ss were 1 1/4 in in dia.all were turned down to different dia..and lengths....but all were only 13 in long........i had them turned down and a cut of shotgun barrel solderd on to get the 17 in. length required......i had a 20 in 357 max that i had to cut to 18 in. because the 13 in barrel was shooting faster than the 20 in.was.....i dug up my old crony pages .......a 10 in 357 max was1730 fps.........a 13 in barrel was 1800 fps.......the 18 in was1850 fps..........all were 158 gr. xtp with imr 4227 powder........there is faster powder but at the time i had lots of it on hand......we all killed deer in 100 ib class with no problem.....lost a bigger fella and went to a 445.....its not a factory h&r barrel......at 19 in.barrel with 200 gr xtp im getting 1970 fps...with imr 4227......i can use it to 200 yds....i havenot had to track a deer shot yet.....only one moved from where he was shot but didnt go far....i can shot 44 mags but point of impact is 6in differance.....hope this helps.......357 are relly nice but ill take my 445 over it any day of the week ....jb

Offline mt3030

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • Gender: Male
Handi Carbine project..Ideas?
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2006, 09:54:48 PM »
Couger:
Guess I can learn something new everyday. I was acquainted with the Ace products. Used one years ago (22LR in 222 Rem).

I had been told that to rechamber a 308 to 30-06 required setting the barrel back, due to the 308 being larger at its shoulder point then the 30-06 case, at that dimension. (In other words, the 30-06 reamer would not clean up the 308 shoulder.) I just went and chambered a 308 in my 30-06, and the bolt closed! Obviously I was wrong.

Are these inserts rifled? If not I wonder what that almost .5 inch jump to the rifling does for accuracy?

Thank you.
Wally
Great Falls, Montana
_________________
NRA Life Member
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Ducks Unlimited

Deceased 6/2/2007

Offline Victor3

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4241
Handi Carbine project..Ideas?
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2006, 11:42:33 PM »
I just bought (Two days ago) a .223 heavy bbl and a Sportster 17 with the intention of shortening both to ~18". I also want to get a 357 bbl and shorten it. I plan to put (Either make or buy) small straight-wristed wood stocks on them with enough height in the comb to use either optics or iron sights comfortably. I would like to put together a nice Handi Rifle/shotgun "kit" of various calibers/ga that could be easily taken for a day out in the field that would cover various needs. I have an old Topper 58 in 12 ga that I may try to find a 410 bbl to fit.

I'd like to have a good selection of rifles/shotguns that myself, my wife, son and friends could all shoot comfortably.

Not quite sure exactly how I'll do it, but a few thoughts:

All bbls ~18"

Holosite on the 357 bbl.

3-9 extended eye relief scopes on .223 and 17hmr bbls mounted far enough fwd so a hammer extension would not be required (And so that they could use low rings).

22lr bbl fitted with iron sights.

Shotgun -  20" 12 ga with poly-choke (Already have) and 18 1/2" 410 bbl. cyl bore (Recoil pad on this frame).

So.....three frames, six bbls, and various forends to fit each. Almost anyone can shoot all but the 12 ga comfortably (Light loads help though). Broken down, the bbls would be in one short hard case, back ends of the guns in another (Foam inserts to hold everything snug). All shoot easily available ammo, and a day's supply for all would fit into two 50 cal ammo cans.

If I get the above kit the way I want it, I can think of at least 15 (Probably more) other guns I have that it would take the place of.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline myarmor

  • Trade Count: (46)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3239
  • Gender: Male
Handi Carbine project..Ideas?
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2006, 11:22:00 AM »
The "build your own" mentality is a big draw for the Handi's no doubt. Weither you want a long range shooter, Varmint hunting, light weight stalking gun, slug gun, Turkey, Survival type, or a carbine project like this, it's easy to make it a "Do it all" kinda of rifle.

I would like to use the synthetic stocks for this, though that will ultimately depend on how well it comes back from factory fitted and tested by myself with them. I'll probably just end up with a modified wooden version for this.

Offline Ditchdigger

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1385
  • Gender: Male
Handi Carbine project..Ideas?
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2006, 01:59:13 PM »
The 445 supermag will do 1850 fps with a 14" barrel and a 300 gr. bullet.Some of us are getting 1 1/2" groups at 100 yds with the 265 gr. Hornady bulllets at 2166fps.in the 22 " barrels. Someone built a carbine with a 16.5" barrel awhile back,but I can't remember who or how it turned out.  Digger
Rest in Peace Old Friend July 2017

Offline Couger

  • Trade Count: (77)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1652
???????????
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2006, 05:15:10 PM »
What kind of hard (or soft) cases has anyone found to keep and transport their "package" in?

MYARMOR is correct that the Handi-R's appeal to many do-it-your-selfers, and many folks to this forum seem pretty handy with wood if not also with metal ......

I've seen many short shotgun (breakdown) cases available 32"-38" in length, but what has anyone found?

What has anyone made?

Victor3,  If you see this, why not wait until you know what you'll carry your "package" in before deciding what barrel length to choose?  Its what I'd do.

Offline Fred M

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
    • Fred The Reloader and Wildcatter
Handi Carbine project..Ideas?
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2006, 07:53:31 PM »
Victor 3

Quote
I'd like to have a good selection of rifles/shotguns that myself, my wife, son and friends could all shoot comfortably.


All your ideas are pretty good, except the 18" barrel length. The muzzle blast make them very uncomfortable to shoot well for occasional shooters.

Besides an 18" barrel on a Handi is very unbalanced specially with a light plastic or wood stock. A 22" barrel is plenty short enough and has superior handling qualities. Your friends, son and wife will be more enthusiastic to shoot them. If non of them can't shoot a 22" barrel, they can't shoot anything.

Myself I am even adverse to a 22" barrel on a single shot rifle.

Another consideration is your resale value of the barrels. I know of a Ruger #1 in 45-70 that the previous owner had cut to 18". I ask the guy if he sell me the action. Well it is your money.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline Victor3

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4241
Handi Carbine project..Ideas?
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2006, 08:13:48 PM »
Oh, dang - Now you guys are messin' up my mind and stuff.

It's probably true that I should leave the bbls longer, but I can't help myself when it comes to making long guns shorter and short guns longer. I have a lathe, you see...

I will indeed have to try things out in standard lengths and see if I would really gain anything by going shorter. I have always had a soft spot for my shorty topper 12 ga and carbines though.

I have tons of cases of all sizes. Another problem I have is buying surplus boxes and bags without having anything to go in them just yet.

Why does everyone always tell me I should be more PRACTICAL? Isn't my wife doing that enuff alredy? :-D
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline myarmor

  • Trade Count: (46)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3239
  • Gender: Male
Re: ???????????
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2006, 01:17:42 AM »
Quote from: Couger
What kind of hard (or soft) cases has anyone found to keep and transport their "package" in?

MYARMOR is correct that the Handi-R's appeal to many do-it-your-selfers, and many folks to this forum seem pretty handy with wood if not also with metal ......

I've seen many short shotgun (breakdown) cases available 32"-38" in length, but what has anyone found?

What has anyone made?

Victor3,  If you see this, why not wait until you know what you'll carry your "package" in before deciding what barrel length to choose?  Its what I'd do.


Heres a couple previous links to carring cases:
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=66889&highlight=cases

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=70497&highlight=carry+case

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=85523&highlight=carry+case

If your going to make up a "Handi Pack" it's good to look around for a few cases. Especially one you can carry multiple barrels in. I still haven't got one yet that can carry extra barrels.
I believe Tim can help on this one, he's always good at finding stuff like this :wink:

Offline Curt Dawson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 154
Handi-Carbine
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2006, 06:12:03 AM »
Well just my 2 cents worth.Years ago I had a 1917 enfield in 30-06 and cut the barrel down to 16 1/4".It was very handy but being an enfield still rather heavy.I had a 4x leupold scope on it and with 130 gr.speer hollowpoints nad reasonably heavy charge of imr 4350 it would shoot sub moa groups.Federal premium ammo in 165 & 180 would both stay in the sub 1 1/2 ".Now of course the muzzle flas and blast were interesting especially in prone position.I eventually had this rifle opened up and rebarreled for 375 H&H.It now wears the same scope but with a 25" heavy sporter barrel from E.R. Shaw.With 300gr silvertips it will shooting off the bench drop 10 rounds into a 1/2 group.If I take my time allow the barrel to cool and watch for the wind.My oldest son now owns it, since I have extensive spinal damage and am having problems finding a rifle I can shoot comfortably.I tried an sks but even that caused problems;but I will keep expierimenting.

Offline Victor3

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4241
Re: Handi-Carbine
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2006, 01:13:54 PM »
Quote from: Curt Dawson
Well just my 2 cents worth.Years ago I had a 1917 enfield in 30-06 and cut the barrel down to 16 1/4".It was very handy but being an enfield still rather heavy.I had a 4x leupold scope on it and with 130 gr.speer hollowpoints nad reasonably heavy charge of imr 4350 it would shoot sub moa groups.Federal premium ammo in 165 & 180 would both stay in the sub 1 1/2 ".Now of course the muzzle flas and blast were interesting especially in prone position.I eventually had this rifle opened up and rebarreled for 375 H&H.It now wears the same scope but with a 25" heavy sporter barrel from E.R. Shaw.With 300gr silvertips it will shooting off the bench drop 10 rounds into a 1/2 group.If I take my time allow the barrel to cool and watch for the wind.My oldest son now owns it, since I have extensive spinal damage and am having problems finding a rifle I can shoot comfortably.I tried an sks but even that caused problems;but I will keep expierimenting.


I think shooting 375 H&H and 458 Win Mag off of the bench and prone GAVE me extensive spinal damage :? (Not really, but it felt like it sometimes) . I recently sold my Ruger 77 African in 458 Win Mag. The guy I sold it to is having it chambered to 458 Lott. Talk about your fillings jarring loose.

Rimfire guns are more fun for me now than any heavy recoil rifles. I have no use for shoulder-crushers anymore...
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Lug

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Handi Carbine project..Ideas?
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2006, 04:32:37 PM »
Looking thru cartridges of the world and there is a wildcat for called the 35 30/30 or 35 30.  P.O. Ackley's book has a similar cartridge that uses a .303 or 30 40 Kraig with the rim turned down to 30/30.  Could make an interesting carbine.
Justin

Offline myarmor

  • Trade Count: (46)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3239
  • Gender: Male
Handi Carbine project..Ideas?
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2006, 12:48:37 AM »
Tons of great suggestions so far guys, I appreciate it :agree:
I believe I'm down to the 357, 30-30, and 7.62x39. So far these seem to be the least expensive to obtain and versitle to load for all in the same package.
If there where an easier way to mount a scope rail on a smooth bore shotgun barrel I would heavily consider that route. Cause you can do a lot of stuff with a well tuned shotty.
Ahhh the options...

Offline longwalker

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 317
carbine
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2006, 12:07:24 PM »
The first thing I thought of was 44 magnum. For all the right reasons But a 30-30 wood make a fine one as well.

longwalker

Offline georgeld

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 239
  • Gender: Male
My idea is way off what you guys have posted
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2006, 09:09:00 PM »
Am in the process of getting my first handi/nef/h&r etc.

Gun's gonna be in a .45/.410, then getting either a 17M2, or HMR for the barrel. Doubt I'll even shoot it that way.

Intend to rechamber it to: .17x28mm a necked down version of the 5.7x28mm case. By working on the ejector a bit with a file it should work great for prairie dogs under 150yds.

Won't cut the barrel shorter, may have it turned down IF it's too heavy for my use.

Another member here has worked one over to shoot .22/250 and it was great.

The possibilities are endless.

George
LM: NRA, NAHC, NAFC, NWTF
"Gun Control is NOT about guns,
It's about Control, join the NRA today!!"

Offline jerkface11

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 381
  • Gender: Male
Handi Carbine project..Ideas?
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2006, 01:33:11 PM »
I suggest a BC forend for your carbine project. The 500 worekd so well I'm considering getting another barrel to cut down too. Maybe a .22 hornet.

Offline MSP Ret

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (173)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8940
  • Gender: Male
Handi Carbine project..Ideas?
« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2006, 02:48:31 PM »
georgeld, if it helps you any, the .22/250 is a standard chambering and is currently available in Handi's....<><.... :grin:
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley