Need A Little Coaching

[SingleFan]

I'm fairly new to handloading and working with my nieghbor, who does a fair amount, but mostly with rifle cartridges.  He's loaded for his .44 and .357, but never 45 Colt, and that is my project.

After reading an artcile by Linebaugh (who focused on the same gun I'm shooting, ans SW 625) and with some input from John Knutson, I selected Blue Dot as my powder to push JHP's; specifically 225 Gr. Speer JHP.

I selected this powder, because I wanted something that would stay within the SAAMI specs, but give me around 1,000 pfs, and because a couple of others, namely Knutson, indicated he got very good results with the powder.

I went with the speer jhp, becuase it is .451 and will slide through the chamber easily, the .452 has to be forced.

HERE"S my concern.  We worked up the loads using WW brass, and Federal 150 primers, 12.5 grains of blue dot under the 225 speer.

We sized the brass, seated and crimped the rounds, BUT THE ROUNDS DID NOT SEAT AS EASILY AS EXPECTED.  WHEN LOADING 44 IN THE PAST, IT DIDN'T TAKE THE KIND OF FORCE REQUIRED WITH THESE 45'S TO SEAT THE BULLET.

When seated to the prescribed 1.590", the case has a slight shoulder, if you will up at the top where the bullet is seated.

Looking at the loaded round, the diameter at the top is same as at the base.  Seems like the RCBS carbide dies may have pulled the cases in a little tight (virgin brass).

Should I be concerned that it took more force to seat the rounds than expected?  I'm concerned about building undo pressure.

[tominboise]

No, the bulge is a good thing, as it indicates that the case is tightly gripping the bullet.  This is good, as it will prevent the bullet from jumping under recoil or handling.  A crimp also helps, but is nothing like a tight fit between the bullet and case.  Load on and don't worry about it.

Tom

[securitysix]

Did you remember to flare/bell the case mouths?  If you don't do this, seating the bullet is possible, but can be a cast iron pain in the arse.  What dies are you using?

[SingleFan]

Yeah we flared the case mouths.  Maybe not enough but we did.  Put a nice little lip on those puppies.

Brass was just 'tight'.  The bullets are jhp but the lead is exposed out on the end.  Actually 'rounded' the bullets a little bit when seating and crimping.

[Tony D]

If using new brass, you also might want to try chamfering the insides of the case mouths a bit.  When I load new brass, I chamfer and skip belling the mouths.  Like previously posted, the bulge in the brass don't hurt none.

[BruceP]

I agree with the others that a bulge in the brass is normal when the case is sized for a tight fit. I have to wonder though if you may have over crimped the cases which could have caused the bulge right at the base of the bullet to flare out and be a little larger than it should. Try backing off on the crimp die about a 1/16 to 1/8th of a turn at a time and see if it still gives a good crimp but lets the case chamber better.
BruceP

[SingleFan]

Yeah I have over crimped a case before and know what that looks like.  The crimp is so slight on these.  Since the fit was tight I didn't see the need to crimp it much.

The 'bulge' is so slight, you can't see it but can feel it.  Case OD in the loaded round at the top near the crimp is .473, at the bottom, .475., which is exactly what it mics prior to sizing.

Looks like what happened is when I sized the case, it took it down to .470 except at the bottom, the sitffest place.  The middle of the case, after seating is still .470.  So when sized it tapered top to bottom .470 - .475.  When I seated the rounds the top expanded to .473.

Think we're good to go?

[Joe Kool]

I would seat a bullet in the case with no powder, and smoke the case and bullet with butane lighter. Chamber the round, then remove it, and you will see exactly where the tight spot is, then you know what you have to look at to solve the problem.  

[SingleFan]

Why?

The tight spot is the case itself.  It's just a tight fit after sizing the cases.  

What would I do once I confirmed what I already know, that that when I seat the bullet in the sized case it is, shall we say, more than an interference fit (in machinist terms).

[IronKnees]

I think as you gain experience in handloading, you will find this to be the case from time to time, especially with handgun rounds, but even with bottleneck rifle brass to some extent. Not to worry. Make sure your crimps are consistent, and you will be just fine. After your brass has been fired a few times, start keeping an eye on it's length, and trim if necessary. Also, as mentioned before, use a good chamfer and de-burring tool, but in answer to your question, you do not have a problems there. Different brass/bullet combinations will do that sometimes...  

[SingleFan]

Just OK; I guess about as expected for the first pass.  Similar results to the factory CCI's with accuracy running from just over 3/4" to 1-1/2" for three shot groups.

A couple of observations - I used the 225Gr .451 Speer JHP's because they slide through the chamber w/out interference and the .452's were quite tight.  The charge was 12.5 grains of Blue Dot.  Guess what..

Didn't burn all the powder, which surprised me because this was a fairly mild load.  

Any thoughts on why?  Other powders you've used with 45 colt you'd suggest over Blue Dot?  HS-6?  2400?

Would a heavier bullet give the powder more time to burn?

[John Traveler]

Blue Dot has developed a reputation for being suitable for heavy bullets and marginal ignition in cold temperatures.  That charge you use is probably on the hot side if a 250 g bullet is used.  for the 225, it is light.

Yes, a heavier bullet and possibly a magnum primer would reduce the amount of unburned powder you have.

I prefer 7 to 8.5 g Unique topped by a 240-260 g bullet for my standard load.  Some shooters don't like Unique because it is dirty even when complete combustion is achieved.  I don't mind a little extra gun cleaning when consistent results and accuracy is the goal.

[SingleFan]

That's helpful.  Actually I've seen Unique mentioned a number of times as a preferred powder for the 45.

Interesting thing on the Blue Dot is that in the Speer manual IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME CHARGE RECOMMENDATION FOR THE 260GR AS FOR THE 225: 12-13.0 GRAINS.

I like the suggestion of a magnum primer.  Incidentally, it was a bit cold and damp today...light rain.

[Tom W.]

I loaded up a bunch with BlueDot, but I found I got better results with GreenDot in my Ruger. But I'm Shooting a 255 gr. cast gas checked bullet.

[tominboise]

I use red dot, green dot, 2400 and ww296, in order of load power. I use red dot and green dot with 250 gr lasercast SWC, and I use 2400 and 296 with 300 gr lasercast WFN.  Paco Kelly has some good loads listed, as well as John Linebaugh.  I would read up on them, if you are so inclined.

[SingleFan]

Are you using Oregon Trail's lasercast bullets?  I know they are just West of you in Baker.

If so, how do you  like them and how do they compare to Beartooth bullets?

[Savage]

H110 is an excellent powder for the .45LC, as is 2400. I throw that out as I didn't see them mentioned. Your chambering problems can be eliminated by Postsizing or by using the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Problem solved! By the way; I'd stay away from the magnum primer unless your load data calls for it.
Stay Safe,
Savage