Author Topic: "338/06?s2"Quick"  (Read 817 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rifleman61

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 109
"338/06?s2"Quick"
« on: June 01, 2006, 11:39:11 AM »
Okay?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I called Oregunsmithing; they are most helpful.
I am sending out the barrel in the next posting.
A question:
I have read the Hodgdon reloading periodical I have on my bench and I notice the pressures are all in the high "40K" to mid "50K"  range, even for the 185 gr., can this be done?
This will not stretch the receiver will it?
I am figuring on shooting the Combined Technologies 200 gr. BT, "CT" is a Winchester and Nosler consortium, to get between 2700 and 2800 FPS I think that this would make 338/06 a good long range round out to 600 yards given its BC of .484 and like the 6.5 and 7mm rounds it has a very high sectional density, 600 yards is an intermediate range in military match shooting, not really cionsidered as long range, but it would be a long range in hunting applications, as the civilian community would have it .
Am I figuring wrongly here?
You are the subject matter expert in this.
After shooting the 45/70 BC I think that perceived "recoil" is more a matter of poetics in this case.


Anchor'sAway/SemperFi
CPOBull

Offline mattparliament

  • Trade Count: (38)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 503
  • Gender: Male
"338/06?s2"Quick"
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2006, 12:33:49 PM »
rifleman~

be sure to compare it to the 35 whelen which you can get quite a bit cheaper from the factory and is pretty much a "ballistic twin" of you 338-06.  200 grain bullets are easily pushed to 2800 fps.  Do some checking.  In the barnes manual they have data for 2700 fps in a 225 grainer.  May be a more economical way of getting that type of round.  Also, the 30-06, 270, 35 whelen, and 338-06 are all loaded up to those pressures and the 270, 06, and whelen come from the factory.  If I was getting a 338-06 I wouldn't be afraid to load them up that high.  My 2 cents...
Life is tough, it's tougher if you're stupid.  ~John Wayne

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43300
  • Gender: Male
"338/06?s2"Quick"
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2006, 01:05:21 PM »
Bull,

I wouldn't worry about the pressure, the 2006 Hodgdon Annual shows the .338-06 pressures at just over 63kpsi, well within the load pressures of the other '06 family calibers that the SB2 frames come from the factory in, current SAAMI spec for the .270W is 65kpsi.

http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellk.htm#pressure

Mac gets 3050fps with the 180gr Nosler Accubond in his .338-06 A-Square Ultra with 59gr BL-C2, Hodgdon shows a max of 62gr for the 180gr NP.  I haven't shot any bullets that light in mine, just 230gr Failsafes and 250gr Sierra Game Kings, no chrono work yet, but I'll get to it someday soon, just finished 2 weeks of spring cleaning, maybe the wife will let me get to the range yet!! :?

Matt,

Since the .35 Whelen only comes with a 22" barrel, IMO the ballistic advantage the .338-06 offers in a 26" barrel is worth the extra cost considering Bull wants to shoot long range targets, the higher BC the .338" bullets offer plus the extra barrel length will make a difference, I'm sure.


Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Fred M

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
    • Fred The Reloader and Wildcatter
"338/06?s2"Quick"
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2006, 01:41:05 PM »
Rifleman.
You only say  "K" is it Kpsi or Kcup. There is a big difference. Hodgedon still uses CUP in several instances.

I talked to them about that and was told, that as long as the CUP pressure barrels last they will use them but new replacement barrels will all be in PSI.

High 40ikpsi and 50kpsi would be quite low, while the same Kcup loads are quite stiff loads.

There is somuch misunderstanding about the two values only today on the range some body did not know the difference and said they were the same. He did not believe of what I said and he was a gun smith.

I had a bad day with a very expensive 243 I was testing for someone, with handloads he supplied. Ened up with seized up bolt and a  blown primer. I made a resolution a long time ago never to use some ones handloads.  Here I got suckered into it, and I don't know why I did.

Could have blown up the rifle, and hurt myself. Whow?

Checked out the loads when I got home with "QL" and found out they were generating in excess of 80kpsi. Needless to say they shot like s---. I am pretty much peed off about that whole deal.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline rifleman61

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 109
ThankYa'll
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2006, 03:39:15 PM »
Hot ziggity dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We're off to the RACES!
ThankYa'll


Anchor'sAway/SemperFi
CPO Bull

Offline Mac11700

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6875
Re: "338/06?s2"Quick"
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2006, 07:35:32 PM »
Quote from: rifleman61
Okay?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I called Oregunsmithing; they are most helpful.
I am sending out the barrel in the next posting.
A question:
I have read the Hodgdon reloading periodical I have on my bench and I notice the pressures are all in the high "40K" to mid "50K"  range, even for the 185 gr., can this be done?
This will not stretch the receiver will it?
I am figuring on shooting the Combined Technologies 200 gr. BT, "CT" is a Winchester and Nosler consortium, to get between 2700 and 2800 FPS I think that this would make 338/06 a good long range round out to 600 yards given its BC of .484 and like the 6.5 and 7mm rounds it has a very high sectional density, 600 yards is an intermediate range in military match shooting, not really cionsidered as long range, but it would be a long range in hunting applications, as the civilian community would have it .
Am I figuring wrongly here?
You are the subject matter expert in this.
After shooting the 45/70 BC I think that perceived "recoil" is more a matter of poetics in this case.


Anchor'sAway/SemperFi
CPOBull


Your going to love it :agree:

If I may...I suggest the 3 die set from Redding...it is what Quick and myself use and they are extreamly nice.Also..give Bruce Merkur at Redding a call...be prepaired to have your ear bent he loves to talk...and....he is most helpfull and will explain the best way to reload this cartridge to give maximum accuracy and velocity in our Handi's..1-607-753-3331 and ask for him ..

I can take mine up a couple notches with the 180 grain loads with no problems.....and both the Accubond and BT are extreamly accurate..once you have properly polished the bore..for breaking it in..talk to Wayne on how both mine and Quicks look to him..and you'll understand..I fully expect the 200's and 215's to react the same in my rifle..

This is my grouping at 100 yards with the 180 grain Accubonds..



Next time I go to the range...I'll be trying the 200 grain Northfork as well as the Nosler 200 SBT..Mike of NorthFork was gracious enough to send me some to try out....I also have some Speer's 200 grain SP...as well as some 215 grain Sierra SBT's to shoot..

Once you have it dialed in...I am quite sure you will like it very much..IMHHO...it is one of the better conversions available to us Handiholics...There is a gentleman up in Canada that has a small bullet making concern going on...His company's name is Wildcat Bullets..he actually has some 150 grainers in this caliber that would probably make this caliber even more versital than it already is..The guys on LongRange Hunting really like them..and nomosendaro sent me a few in 25cal to run thru my 25-06...they work really good on deer too...

This is the bead blaste finish Wayne does...all of the writing is off the barrel except fot the caliber designation..



Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
"338/06?s2"Quick"
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2006, 07:33:51 AM »
As Quick stated, the 26" barrel helps with the 338-06, but even so the
338-06 is a better round than the Whelen anyway, not to upset anyone as the 35 Whelen is a fine round.

The available 338 bullets are better ballistically than the 35cal. of any  given weight.

It appears I will be taking this plunge soon as the Whelen barrel does not offer the performance I desire. I will then use my Sendero 300WM in more specialized situations & give some of it's present duties to the 338-06.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Grizz_

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 76
"338/06?s2"Quick"
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2006, 09:32:17 AM »
NoMo,

Out of curiosity only, why not just shoot a 338? I am sure there are good reasons to like the 338/06, but the benefit escapes me. Are H&Rs not able to handle the 338 pressures?

Thanks

Grizz
Regards,

Grizz

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
"338/06?s2"Quick"
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2006, 12:14:51 PM »
WOW,That is the exact same question I would have asked 18 months ago!!

The Belted case, .532 Rim  or the fatter cased short Mag. is not suitable for the NEF action, for that matter the belted mag works in the Encore, but the short mag does not do well at all in it , even though some have been made, you won't see TC chamber a short mag., so it is a matter of frame size. BTW, the 338 bore does not matter, it is the case size, head size & pressue relative to the size of the NEF frame, doesnt matter if it is a .264WM or 338.

So, if you want a 338, buying a bolt gun is allways an option, as it is for any other caliber. If I get a 338 bolt gun, it will be a SPECIALIZED heavy 338 like the 338 Edge or 338 Allen, at the least a 338 ULtra Mag. with a 28" bull barrel, in this rifle I will be shooting 300 Gr. bullets @ 3,000 FPS or so & the 338 Win. Mag. is too small for that, but that is down the road if at all.

Here is what I like about the 338-06 Handi & Mac can elaborate later as I am packing right now for Branson, besides he is the one that got me to looking at this to begin with, it's his fault.  :)
   
 With the 26" barrel, it will get close to 338WM velocities up to the 225
Grain bullet. Most 338 bolt guns come with the 24" & I would not want a non-specialized bolt gun in this caliber to have a 26" anyway as they are 4" longer with the same barrel length due to the action. A 24" 338 will get about 2,950 with the 225 & the Ultra 26" 338-06 will do 2,850-2,875.
Some fast 338WM barrels will beat this & some 338-06 Ultra's might beat this, but the differences from 225Gr. & down will be close.
I just can't get the warm and fuzzey's over the ballistic differences & with
the new technology bullets, I don't want to use under 225 for the animals
I will hunt with this rifle.

You get these velocities useing ALOT less powder in the 338-06 which makes it cheaper to shoot, but less powder also means less recoil, less
muzzle blast & better barrel life & again for a SMALL performance difference.

The 30-06 case is cheaper, easier to get the best accuracy with & will
last longer than the belted case, overall a better case design.

It is economical in the Handi if you already have the gun, getting the barrel is cheaper to buy than a separate 338 Bolt gun, but at the same time you are getting the benefit of a custom barrel, if you buy the bolt gun & then buy a custom barrel, then you add $300.00 to the bolt gun.

The Handi handles great & with the short overall length even with the 26" tube.

The big 338's have a specialized role & they are great. The 338WM is fine but it brings nothing to the table for me. Grizz, since you asked this it is getting more clear to me that I would ask those who KNOW of the capabilities of a Handi, Why would I not get the 338-06 Handi?

Those who like Handi's will understand this & those who don't should get the bolt gun. I have several bolt guns that I won't part with, but this set-up will handle a great deal of my hunting needs. No one type of gun is for everyone.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43300
  • Gender: Male
"338/06?s2"Quick"
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2006, 12:36:51 PM »
Well said!! :agree:  :agree:  :agree:

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Grizz_

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 76
"338/06?s2"Quick"
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2006, 12:40:18 PM »
Thanks so much. That was a great reply and explains it perfectly. I truly appreciate the info. I had a 338 WM in Alaska. It's too much gun for deer and not enough for bears, at least not for bear defense. I sent mine to my son in TX and use a GS for the defense and hunting gun. Slow moving heavy metal takes deer cleanly and doesn't leave me wanting for a better bear mauler.

I have a Buffalo Classic and am excited about tuning it up for longer range shooting, but it's not intended for hunting, although I can see the attraction. And maybe someday, if I go buffalo hunting, that's the gun that will get the nod.

Good Shooting,

Grizz
Regards,

Grizz

Offline Mac11700

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6875
"338/06?s2"Quick"
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2006, 01:32:41 PM »
Quote
I truly appreciate the info. I had a 338 WM in Alaska. It's too much gun for deer and not enough for bears, at least not for bear defense.


Grizz...You say the 338 WM isn't enough gun for bears????????  I know for something big and mean and close I would want my Marlin 1895GS load up with some Garretts ammo...but..at longer ranges don't they work good?...I read a-lot of hunters use them reguarly..

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Grizz_

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 76
"338/06?s2"Quick"
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2006, 01:57:43 PM »
Hi Mac,

The 338 is a great gun. I don't like it in the kind of areas I hunted; overrun with bears and jungle like cover in areas. I have come to believe the 338 bullets are too frangible for a point blank load on bears. Also, the gun is much longer than the GS, so it's not as handy. And I don't think it's as disruptive on a CNS shot. I know that a lot of bears have been killed with them, and lesser guns, I am only talking about my confidence level.

I would not hesitate to kill a bear with one if I were hunting the bear. But if the bear is hunting me I don't trust it. I am pretty sure that the PileDrivers I keep in  the GS will do what I need them to, if I can do my part. In an open area where you aren't likely to get ambushed by a bear then the 338 is great. But if it's up close and personal then I am not sure about it.

Along with that, most of the deer I've killed have been at hand gun range. Maybe a third or so I killed with a handgun. So I don't need a lot of long range equipment for my area. My GS gives me a sure kill on ANYTHING from point blank on. I can hit the kill zone of a deer out to a 100 yards. It's the all-round go to gun for me now, along with my redhawk loaded with 320gr "backup" loads. LOL

Grizz
Regards,

Grizz