Author Topic: should i try an oversized hinge pin? (Read 1068 times)

thelaw · « **on:** June 07, 2006, 06:18:45 PM »

been working with my .260 barrel for a few months now. i've floated the barrel, installed a lighter trigger spring and have played with my handloads a lot using several different powder and bullet combos. the best group i can get is 1" and that's not very often. more times than not they are around 1.5" or so. i don't expect one hole groups, but i think the gun should shoot a little better than that. i have noticed the talked about "wabble" in the barrel when the action is closed and my hinge pin can be pushed out with fingers. should i try a larger pin to solve my accuracy and "wabble"?

bustedknee · « **Reply #1 on:** June 07, 2006, 06:42:54 PM »

I vote for a fore-end hanger.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 08, 2006, 01:12:28 AM »

I say try the larger hinge pin, it is a inexpensive item and if it works you are way ahead on savings.

Bullseye · « **Reply #3 on:** June 08, 2006, 06:35:20 AM »

mjshell · « **Reply #4 on:** June 08, 2006, 09:29:47 AM »

I'd try the hinge pin, it takes one more variable out of the mix.

Did you pillar bed the forend or use washers? sometimes the washers move with recoil.

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** June 08, 2006, 11:12:56 AM »

NO. You run the risk of making the hole in your frame or barrel oversize in the process and then you'll have to use one all the time with all barrels. It's NOT gonna help anyway. In fact it's more likely to make things WORSE. Just a hoax from a person best ignored if you like your money.

KN · « **Reply #6 on:** June 08, 2006, 12:11:20 PM »

I'm not quite as passonate about it as GB is but I do agree with him. I did a test on all four of my frames and all my barrels using a tighter hinge pin. None of them shot any better with the bigger pin and a couple shot worse. This is probably one of those questions you'll just have to decide for yourself. KN

sgtt · « **Reply #7 on:** June 08, 2006, 07:20:06 PM »

You didn't indicate the loads. If you reload, try different powder, bullets, brass, OAL, etc. If you don't try different factory loadingsl. A one inch group isn't all that bad!!!

Qtip · « **Reply #8 on:** June 09, 2006, 02:17:03 AM »

Like one of the posters said, this is an issue you will have to decide on your own. I had bad wobble in my Encore 20 ga. rifled slug barrel. The gun didn't shoot real bad, but nowhere near what I had expected. I mentally debated the issue for weeks and went on many forums for advice. I went for a 1X pin and the wobbling stopped. It now locks up like an expensive side by side; the way a break action should lock up. There should not be ANY wobble. Think of the barrel vibrations when you touch it off with a "loose" barrel as compared to a tight one? That barrel moving the slightest bit back and forth will also eventually wear the area around the pin on both frame and barrel as it is excessive play and is matal moving against metal. Would you want the bolt on a bolt action to "wobble" back and forth after you locked it up with a round in it? You will have to decide. Take your time.

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!

thelaw · « **Reply #9 on:** June 09, 2006, 05:59:46 AM »

i floated the barrel with washers and it seems very solid. as for the hinge pin, i think it should feel tighter than it is. heck, i have a nef handi .223 that costs 1/3 of the encore and it has a nice tight "wabble free" lockup, floated barrel with NO trigger work and it shoot better than my encore any day of the week. i do not plan on switching barrels with this rifle either.

thelaw · « **Reply #10 on:** June 09, 2006, 06:01:54 AM »

also i forgot to add, i have tried about 12-15 different powders and 3 different bullets in my load development so far. loaded some more up yesterday and will try and head out with them monday for another range session.

mjshell · « **Reply #11 on:** June 09, 2006, 07:22:43 AM »

If you go with a 1x pin, all you are doing is tightening the tollerances. obviously, tc already provided you with a oversized hole. they do this for ease of barrel changeabilty. i would think if tightening tolerances has an adverse effect on accuracy, then there must be some real issues with the particular frame/barrel combination. It may or may not effect accuracy, but i like a tight lockup.

As far as your reloads, if you haven't already tried this. I take my best powder/ bullet combination and then i play with the the seating depth of the bullet. sometimes this has made a so so load into a shooter with my tc's.

also, if you don't already do this, when shooting from the bench, try positioning your front rest very close to the frame.

everbodies accuracy standards are different, i.e. one inch or larger is fine for deer, but is marginal for prairie dogs.

KN · « **Reply #12 on:** June 09, 2006, 12:21:02 PM »

I believe making it too tight is a mistake. I'll try and explain why I believe that. Every part that goes into the making of the Encore or any machanical device has to have tollerances built into it. That said, lets consider the lockup of the Encore. If you remove all the play in the frame/barrel/pin of the action then there is no movement allowed for the luggs/frame to line up if they are not exactilly perfect. Is the hole in the barrel lug perfectly perpendicular to the barrel? No! Is the hole in the frame perfectly perpendicular to the frame axis? No! Is the locking lug slot perfectly in line with the mating frame slot when closed? No! A little play in the hinge area goes a long way in ensuring that every thing snaps together as an end result. Too tight and I would bet most rifles would be locking up tighter on one side of the lugs. It could also affect how straight the barrel drops into the fame opening causing the barrel to push one side of the frame. Most agree that un-natural preasure of any kind is not good when it comes to repeatability. I'm sure some will dissagree with this but this is just how I see it. KN

Qtip · « **Reply #13 on:** June 10, 2006, 01:49:28 AM »

With the action locked up and a round in the chamber how can anything be "lined up" if there is wobble. Think about that a minute. Wobble means movement; lining up means staying in place. Ask the makers of expensive double rifles what they think about wobble. Ever close the action on an expensive side by side shotgun? Tight isn't it? No wobble doesn't mean a lack of tolerance- it just points to close tolerances. would you want your barrel and action on a bolt job to wobble when loaded?
Just think about it. How can it stay lined up so to speak if it wobbles?

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!

swampthing · « **Reply #14 on:** June 10, 2006, 02:58:21 AM »

This one plauged me also.
I sent mine back, twice, they installed a slightly larger firing pin bushing. This solved the side to side play on my 26'' .50 cal black powder barrel.

scratcherky · « **Reply #15 on:** June 10, 2006, 12:27:27 PM »

Headspace is very important in obtaining accuracy with the Encore. You need to check it closely. If you reload it is easy to maintain correct headspace when resizing brass.
As far as the loose lockup I installed a heavier locking bolt spring which really tightened up the action and improved accuracy in my Encore. I had planned on using a 1X pin but did not need it with the heavier locking bolt spring

Tn Jim · « **Reply #16 on:** June 11, 2006, 03:49:00 AM »

I have to second mjshell. My 7-08 likes the bullet ogive alot further off the lands than any rifle I've ever seen. Normally somewhere between 40 to 60 thousands. Anything closer and it shoots patterns. Try that before changing pins.