300 Rem Ultra Mag vs 300 Weatherby

[BattleRifleG3]

I couldn't find such a discussion on a search, so I hope this isn't a tired discussion.

Basically, which longest action 300 magnum do you think is the better choice?

Both the 300 Wby and 300 RUM have about the same power, with the RUM having the edge by a little, but individual loads will vary more than that difference.  Same rim size, but the Wby is a belted magnum, so the case is a bit thinner than the RUM.  Headspacing on the shoulder and having a straight, fat case makes the 300 RUM the more accurate design, but the high quality of 300 Wby ammo and guaranteed accuracy of Weatherby rifles make it a potentially better contender for accuracy.  The Weatherby's case and throat design make it particularly more efficient than the 300 RUM, and the overall shape seems more conducive to feeding.

Rifle and choices are another issue.  Far as I know, the 300 RUM is the round more commonly chambered in new rifles, with Weatherby being the only one to chamber for the 300 Wby mag.  So even if the Weatherby was the better feeding round, could a more reliably feeding rifle chambered in 300 RUM make it the more practical choice if reliability was key?

Here's an application - mine.  I currently have a Savage 111G in 300 RUM.  Savage being the name in accuracy.  Also being relatively rough and less than very reliable in its feeding, and the fat, straight cased 300 RUM doesn't make matters any better.  It's in a wooden stock in hunting configuration, but the most I'd trust it for is a very long range shot on a whitetail from a rested position - I'm not counting on a second shot.  I's want something more rugged and reliable for taking the kind of game the 300 longest magnums were meant for.

My opinion is that these long magnums are short-changed with short barrels, and that a 30" barrel would befit them where practical.  Having taken a little cosmetic damage to the barrel which would hurt resale, I'm thinking my Savage in 300 RUM could do well as a customized long range bull barreled target rifle, and I could get a more reliable rifle in the same round for hunting while the Savage would be made into a single shot.  But if I was rebarreling the Savage, I could just as easily do it to 300 Wby to match a different brother rifle.

The tentative choices for a hunting rifle would be a Weatherby Vanguard in 300 Wby Mag and a used Winchester M70 Classic Stainless in 300 RUM, with the Weatherby being perhaps $40 less but risking a terrible stock (apparently it's luck of the draw between a better older model and a horrid newer one within the past few years.)  I already have an excellent scope for it, and the Savage target rifle would get one suited more for target use on a rifle its size.

So between these reasons or reasons you know and I don't, which would be a better choice for a 300 long magnum.  I realize some of you may suggest a 300 Win Mag for more options, or a 30-378 Wby for more power, but this is the level of power I'm looking for.  I'm either going to set up a pair of rifles like this, or am going to max out the 30 caliber with 30-06, go smaller caliber (6.5mm) for target use, and go higher (375) for biggest game.  But right now I'm taking a careful look at these two rounds next to each other.

[jro45]

I own the 300 Rem Ultra Mag. With that rifle I shot 600 yds to find out where the bullet would land using my Burris Plex scope 4X16. With one shot I hit the bulls eye at 600 yds. That RUM is some rifle. The bullet rose 9" in it flite.
At 200 yds it shoots a 3/4" three shot group. I don't know if a WBY could do that or not. Probably could.
So any how I know that rifle is good for deer 25yds to 600yds.

[jro45]

I own the 300 Rem Ultra Mag. With that rifle I shot 600 yds to find out where the bullet would land using my Burris Plex scope 4X16. With one shot I hit the bulls eye at 600 yds. That RUM is some rifle. The bullet rose 9" in it flite.
At 200 yds it shoots a 3/4" three shot group. I don't know if a WBY could do that or not. Probably could.
So any how I know that rifle is good for deer 25yds to 600yds.

[BattleRifleG3]

Wow, way to make a point!  (just teasing)

That's some report, mind saying what rifle you're using?

[killdeer]

I own the 300 Rem Ultra Mag. With that rifle I shot 600 yds to find out where the bullet would land using my Burris Plex scope 4X16. With one shot I hit the bulls eye at 600 yds. That RUM is some rifle. The bullet rose 9" in it flite.
At 200 yds it shoots a 3/4" three shot group. I don't know if a WBY could do that or not. Probably could.
So any how I know that rifle is good for deer 25yds to 600yds.

   "The bullet rose 9" in it flite."




NOT POSSIBLE.....................

[killdeer]

Battle,
I owned a CDL 300 RUM. The only thing I didn't like was powder consumption/barrel life but those are the price of speed.
 There are no feeding issues with ultramag brass and it is built hell for stout.
 Premium factory ammo is no problemo either.

 Haven't fallen in love with the mouseresque actions but I am trying with a Montana 99.

 For simplicity, ease of maint and slick feeding so far the 700 just works for me.

[nomosendero]

When you look at factory ammo, the difference between the two is small
due to the fact that Wea. fact. ammo is hotter than most, however the potential goes to the RUM.
With reloads loaded to comparable pressures, the difference is not great
with bullets 165 & under, the RUM pulls ahead a little more with the 180's
& alot more with the 200Gr. & above. The RUM firing the 200 Accubond at 3,200+ FPS is one of the best long range rounds you can get until you get to the 338 Lapua or bigger 338 Wildcats.
You are correct about the barrels, the RUM needs at least a 26" & does better with a little more. The RUM is a better case design & your future options for target brass will be much better than the Wea.

[Patriot_1776]

BRG3, I know you have received some interesting info regarding the 300 RUM.  I'm going to tell you that the 300 Weatherby is, IMO, a way better choice.  I'll tell you why.  First off, the RUM uses much more powder, while only gaining a slight edge.  The extra powder increases heat generation, is severely overbored, and increases recoil.  

My brother had the 7mm RUM, and although it lived up to some of its expectations, it was easily outweighed by some cons.  Accurate, yes; a powder hog, YES.  With a pound of powder, you'd be lucky to get more than 100 rounds out of it.  One other thing to give you an idea, the rifle he had was the Rem. 700 Sendero SF.  Do you know how thick of a barrel that rifle has?  It was a contour #4 bbl, and after coming out of the gun case, it was stone cold.  First shot, it is now warm; second shot, very warm; third shot, cool it dude!  That is alot of heat right there.

Now, the 300 Weatherby does have a few $$$ running behind the ammo.  One little trick for us 300 Weatherby owners, if you run up empty on your ammo during a hunt, or might be wondering about a cheaper alternative, get yourself some 300 H&H.  Yes, you can fire 300 H&H in a 300 Wby.  I don't think any other round can be fired in the RUMs, except that which the gun was exactly made for.  An added bonus is you now have fireformed Wby. brass to load it up to full potential.  My Accumark is deadly accurate, as I've squeezed out a 7/16" group at 100 yds. using 180gr. Barnes TSXs.  I've not had the time to confirm the consistency of those rounds, as I've been really busy with my other guns.  But I know it can do it again, and maybe even perform just as good at 200 yds.  As for heat generation, yes it does require self control on behalf of the guy behind the stock.  I never shoot more than three rounds in a row without letting it cool sufficiently.  But, as with any magnum, it is quite unheard of to go buy one and shoot 100rds in a day anyway.  

In anything I've said is found to be faulty information by other experienced members here, call me on it, and I'll listen or defend.  :-D :lol:    :lol:   :-D  

So before you are dead set on the 300 RUM, take what I have said into consideration.  I hope this helps you some.


-Patriot

[BattleRifleG3]

I do know that 300 H&H is usable in a 300 Wby, but is there any cost advantage to it?  Your points about lots of powder for a little gain and lots of overbore make complete sense.  That's kind of what I meant saying that the Weatherby round is more efficient.  The rounded shoulder areas offer less friction to the high pressure high speed gasses flowing through than a sharp shouldered overbored magnum.

Here's one thought though - for those same reasons, a 300 RUM is a heck of a lot more efficient than a 7mm RUM.  Isn't the 7mm Weatherby, which the 7mm RUM was designed to surpass, a standard magnum length, ie no longer than 300 Win Mag?  If that's the case (no pun intended), using the long RUM case just to equal it really does seem silly.

The way I'm thinking right now, the 300 RUM's tradeoffs are entirely believable and reasonable.  By comparison, the 300 Weatherby is an amazing innovation to accomplish as much in a smaller package.

In the other direction, though, the use of the heaviest 30 cal bullets is certainly a consideration, and if the RUM has a notable advantage there it's definitely an advantage for my uses.

This is a tough one indeed.

[nomosendero]

To compare the 300RUM versus the 300 Wea. is not the same as comparing the 7RUM versus the other 7 mags. The reason is the 7RUM
is more overbore & inefficient than the 300 RUM. The 7MMSTW will be very, very close to the 7RUM because of this unless you use a 28" or
longer barrel with a fast twist to use the 160 Accubond or better yet the 200GR. Wildcat. For this reason the 7RUM is not doing well at all whereas
the 300 RUM is doing very well among long range shooters.

So comparing the 7RUM with other 7 Mags is not at all like comparing the 300RUM with the 300 Wea., Apples to Oranges at best.

BattleRifleG3, to me it is pretty simple. If a 26" or a little longer barrel is
not a problem for YOU & if you use 180 Gr. or even better a bullet like the
200 Accubond, then the 300 RUM has a definite edge. I like the heavier,
wind bucking bullets in this round, as you know in the age of range finders
the trajectory can be plotted, but the wind drift is trickier & this is where
the higher BC's come in.

[nasem]

I only have the 300 RUM, so I can't say much about the wbys.  I love my rifle, I don't shoot it often ($2 a pop is a little expensive) but when I hit the range and my before my eyes get all blury and tired from stairing down the scope, I easily get 2" groups at 300 yards.  Its defenetly more me than the gun, If I was a better shot I can shrink that to an inch.

Anyways, my gun is a rem 700 Police (oh yeh baby 9lb gun without the scope) and let me tell ya, it still kicks like a mule.

[BattleRifleG3]

I'll take as long a barrel as they'll put on a rifle.  I'm a bit bummed that there's no factory offering of a 28 or 30 inch barrel for the 300 RUM.  I'd probably want a hunting rifle barrel as short as 26", but for a target rifle whose barrel I get to customize, I'd go 30" or more if it's available and affordable.  (30" is the point where the 30-378 Wby mag exceeds the 300 RUM.)

200gr bullets available in 7mm?  That's pretty dang cool!  Might have to try something like that at some point in life.  But not today.

The RUM's looking pretty good, but it ain't over till the fat lady sings.  Being as my lady's not fat and doesn't sing much, it might take some time.  I was planning to drop the 300 RUM I have until I found a very attractive rifle in the caliber.  That's when I started thinking of redoing my Savage RUM to a target rifle, but a rebarreling in either round would be just as easy, so I figured give the Weatherby another thought since I really like the Vanguard design and used to like the stocks (the current stocks are terrible in my opinion.)

[Patriot_1776]

BRG3, I'm curious, but do you plan to reload either of these beasts you choose?  The reason I'm asking this, if you don't reload, the 300 Wby. has a wider selection of ammo from different companies.  Right now as far as I know, Remington is the only producer of ammo and brass for the RUMs.  

According to the sources I've checked (Midway and Cabela's) the 300 Wby. is offered by Hornady, Remington, Federal, and of course Weatherby.  The prices range from least to most, but the Hornadys are the least expensive, as they are showing 300 Wby. 180gr. Custom SPP (Soft Protected Point) at $28.99 per 20.  

At the other end of the list is of course Weatherby, asking up to $54.99 for 200gr. Nosler Partitions, per 20.

The 300 RUM as offered by Remington runs from $41.99 per 20 on a box of 150gr. Scirocco, and down to $32.49 per 20 on a box of 180gr. Scirocco ammo.  

All these prices I've listed were taken from the most recent Midway master catalog I received.

But, if you think you would still be more satisfied with the RUM over the Wby. then, buy all means (major pun intended!), get the one you would feel the most confident with.  :grin:


-Patriot

[BattleRifleG3]

I have the dies for the 300 RUM and have loaded a few, but for the future I'm thinking of outsourcing to a fellow I know who does customized loading/reloading as a business.  Other rounds I'm keen to ride the learning curve with, but due to the price, pressures, and necessary accuracy of the 300 RUM, I'm thinking that's one I'd keep professional.  But I'm not keen on factory ammo prices.  Prices aside, I can't even find the stuff anymore.

[jro45]

I own the 300 Rem Ultra Mag. With that rifle I shot 600 yds to find out where the bullet would land using my Burris Plex scope 4X16. With one shot I hit the bulls eye at 600 yds. That RUM is some rifle. The bullet rose 9" in it flite.
At 200 yds it shoots a 3/4" three shot group. I don't know if a WBY could do that or not. Probably could.
So any how I know that rifle is good for deer 25yds to 600yds.

   "The bullet rose 9" in it flite."




NOT POSSIBLE.....................

The bullet rose 9" in it flite is a fact. 9" from line of sight. From the ground is different fact. It was a 180 nosler going 3225 FPS.

[jro45]

Wow, way to make a point!  (just teasing)

That's some report, mind saying what rifle you're using?

It is a model 700 BDL 26" barrel

[Patriot_1776]

jro45 wrote:

he bullet rose 9" in it flite is a fact. 9" from line of sight. From the ground is different fact. It was a 180 nosler going 3225 FPS.

KD,

I think what he means, is with the elevation adjustments he made to shoot out to 600yds, the bullet rose only 9" above the L.O.S.  This is to reflect how fast and flat the 300 RUM shot.  It was not meant to portray that he shot parallel with the ground in which the bullet planed up 9".   :grin:

How did you measure that out, jro45?  Just curious.


-Patriot

[jro45]

jro45 wrote:

he bullet rose 9" in it flite is a fact. 9" from line of sight. From the ground is different fact. It was a 180 nosler going 3225 FPS.

KD,

I think what he means, is with the elevation adjustments he made to shoot out to 600yds, the bullet rose only 9" above the L.O.S.  This is to reflect how fast and flat the 300 RUM shot.  It was not meant to portray that he shot parallel with the ground in which the bullet planed up 9".   :grin:

How did you measure that out, jro45?  Just curious.




-Patriot

I have the 'Infinity Five' by Serria.  Exterior Ballistics.

In reality the drop or elevation of my rifle was only 4.20" from 200 yds to 600 yds. Because my rifle was zeroed at 200 yds and the bullet drop to 200 yds was .25" in reality not using the Ext. Ballistics. So I could elimitnate the drop to 200yds in the graft and just us it from 200 yds to 600 yds witch was 3.95. the rest is easy.

[killdeer]

jro45,
My apologies Sir!

[Coyote Hunter]

   "The bullet rose 9" in it flite."

NOT POSSIBLE.....................

Of course it is - it all depends on how the rifle is zeroed.  

My rifles get zeroed for Maximum Point Blank Range based on a target 6" in diameter.  That means the buppet is nover more than 3" above or below line of sight fromthe barrel to the target.  I could just as easily zero for an 18" diameter target, in which case the bullet would ride a maximum of 9"  Don't know why anyone would do that, though.

[jro45]

Killdeer,
There are NO bad feelings taken. Sometimes I'm not to good at explaining
something. Have a nice day!

[kombi1976]

Ummm, where's the "Both completely unnecessary" option? :lol:
Seriously, though, what do you intend to hunt with one of these?

[BattleRifleG3]

Anything you would hunt with a 30-06 but at longer range and flatter trajectory, as well as paper at long range.  I'm looking to have a pair of rifles in the same round, one a hunting rifle and one a target rifle with a very long (30"+) bull barrel.

[BattleRifleG3]

Ummm, where's the "Both completely unnecessary" option?

Cause I've had the discussion before and am looking for the tradeoffs, however minor, between these two rounds.

At the moment, it's looking like the 300 RUM would be a Rem 700 and the 300 Wby would be a Vanguard.  I tentatively passed up a Wim M70 classic in 300 RUM and it was gone when I came back to buy it.

[kombi1976]

O.k., I'll be serious. :wink:
Well, should I ever change my mind about super mags and desire a 30 cal the 300 RUM would seem to be a better bet.
The brass should be easier to come by and also should be cheaper and as it isn't belted it should feed faster.
It's based on the 404 Jeffrey which was the starting point for many of the Lazzaroni cartridges so I think it's good choice.
On top of that, if you want a target rifle a M700 is a good start as there are lots of "go fast" parts for them available for reasonable prices.
Mind you the 300 Wby Mag has taken countless game over the years.
There ya go.
Now feel free to dismiss my opinion as worthless.

[BattleRifleG3]

Those are definitely good points.  Actually, my plan was to switch a Savage to target rifle, since it can't feed worth crap and might as well be single shot, plus Savages rule in the department of accuracy and rebarreling ease.  The Weatherby or Remington would be for hunting.  My tentative preference based on rifle design would be the Weatherby for its more aggressive extractor, and secondly its lower price.  Plus its optical mounts are the same as the 700.  But the accuracy and ammo availability options of the 300 Ultra seem to be putting it ahead, and I'm assuming the Rem round in a Rem rifle would be as reliable a combo as the Weatherby round in a Weatherby rifle.  I realize that's splitting hairs, just trying to consider what would be going through the heads of their engineers.

My Savage is in 300 RUM, but if rebarreled it could just as easily go to the Weatherby round if it were the better choice.  I actually thought the Weatherby round would feed faster due to its slicker shoulder shape compared to the fat low taper case of the 300 Ultra.  But perhaps the bolt design of the Rem 700 would compensate, with its three rings of steel opening up a larger hole to feed into.

[nomosendero]

If you look at the Vanguard, I would not buy the Mattel stock, even though it can be bedded. I would buy the 1moa version.

But I can tell you that I prefer the Remingtons over the Wea. for sure. There is so much you can do to a Rem. & I like the Savages alot & yes in factory form the Sav. hangs with the Rem. & sometimes does better, but in modified form the Rem. still is the best choice other than the cheap swapping of barrels on the Savage. I would take a good look at the re-introduced Sendero (surprise, surprise) with the 26" fluted barrel it offers. I have a Sendero Lam. stock version with the non-fluted barrel &
I can carry it all day & it is heavier than this new unfluted version. In this
more accurate gun plus 2" more barrel with the bigger RUM case, it would outclass the Vanguard alot, MOA Version or not. That is if you go with 2 guns.

The idea of having 2 300's is certainly a good plan, nothing wrong with it at all. But another approch would be to get the Rem. Police or Used Sendero, true up the Rec., Get a Titanium Holland Recoil Lug, Skim bed it,
Get a Lilja 28" or so fluted barrel (not overly long & yet does well) &
put the best mounts, rings & scope on it & you would have a rifle good for
1/2 MOA or better out to 500 yards & 3/4MOA or so out to 800-1000 yards
but yet a gun you could hunt with. You could sell your Savage & worry about 1 Rifle in 300 & 1 scope. I bet if you are this serious you have something like a 30-06 or 7mag already that could be your lighter gun.
I have a Win. featherwt. in a Brown Pre. stock in 30-06AI that fills this function.

BattleRifleG3, I am not saying you should do this, only pointing out another option without really giving up anything! I know a Gunsmith that could make it happen for you!