357 and 44Mag loading..need some advice.

[myarmor]

...from all 357 and 44mag Handi owners, or even lever action loaders might be of assistance.
I have made up my mind to order a 357 barrel. I have dies, brass, and all I need are Primers, powder, and bullets. Now a couple questions.
-Has anyone toyed with .355 (9mm) or even .358 (35 cal rifle) bullets in their 357Mag?
I am all for safety especially on the work bench, but it's more of an experimental question.
-Whats the lightest grain bullet and heaviest you load for your 357?

And for the 44mag:
I recently got my 44Mag barrel back from my smith friend..scgunsmith here at GB. I have to put ina plug here cause he reblued, polished, and brazed a new underlug on it and the barrel looks absolutly georgous!
 Anyway I now have dies for it as well. I have not yet slugged the barrel, but I will in time. I do believe it to be in specs though as my last sight in was very pleasing. I used 2 factory loads, PMC 240gr and Magtech 200gr HP's. The 240's were more like a pattern, with 5" being the normal .
Then I went to my Magtechs. Very impressed I got clover leaf prints at 50yards. Happy for a 44Mag with the reputation of off size bores. Any way I am lead to believe though that the rate of twist will only accomendate the lighter end for my 44mag being around the 180gr to 200gr mark.
-So what lighter weight hunting bullets do any of you 44Mag Handi loaders use?
-How do they hold up to the higher velocitys from the longer rifle barrel?
Any feed back appreciated fellas.
-Aaron

[astrix]

Well,I don't have a Handi,but I shoot a .44 mag carbine barrel(20") on
my Encore.This one really likes Hornady 265 gr. flatpoint interlocks.The
twist on my barrel is 1/20" and throws these bullets well(3 shots touch
at 50 yrds.)I load these over H-110 with CCI Large Pistol Magnum
primers.If the twist on yours is slower,it may shoot the lighter bullets
better.I would look at Hornady XTP's in 180 or 200 gr.

[menotomyhunter]

In my Marlin 1894S, 44mag carbine, Sierra 250grain full profile jacketed Tournament Masters over IMR4227 were superb.

[myarmor]

Well the Handi 44Mags are suppose to have a 1-38 twist, and as memory serves me there was another member here that didn't get  a 44Mag Handi for that reason.
I actually was about to pick up some of those Hornadys last night. But decided to hold of a bit till I get everything underway. How do the XTP's perform on Deer sized game?

[45/70fan]

I use Hornady 240 XTP's in my Ruger Deerfield and my NEF Sidekick muzzle loader. They exit everytime and result in very dead deer. If they made XTP's for my 45/70 I'd use them in that too. Try some 180 XTP's with a max load of H110, they should be a screamer in the 44.

[astrix]

"Try some 180 XTP's with a max load of H110, they should be a screamer in the 44."

My sentiments exactly!Would definately work well on deer sized game.

[Paul5388]

Aaron,

I tried .358" bullets from 180 gr to 250 gr and wasn't impressed with them.  I used the seating punch out of my .35 Whelen dies to keep from deforming the SPs and accuracy still wasn't as good as the 180 gr XTP in .357".

I shoot a Beartooth .359" 250 gr LRNFPGC that does very well, with groups around 1" at 100 yards.  That's about the same group size I get with 180 gr XTPs.

The Lyman 358429 shoots very well too.  It's about 173 gr and will clock at 1740 fps out of .38 Special brass.

Probably the key to a good shooting barrel is to give it time to break in, float the barrel and use a taper crimp instead of a roll crimp.

I also shoot .360 DWs without a problem and some have been as long as 2.15" OAL.

[myarmor]

Thanks for the info Paul. I was curious about the different diameter bullets even if they are minute. I just wanted to see the versatility of the cartridge before taking the plunge.
 This will be the first time I have loaded a Handgun cartridge/straight walled. SO I have been reading up a bit on the different crimps and tapers. I have always been a fan of the 357 and look forward to my new barrel, thats for sure.
With my 44Mag...I originaly got the barrel used so I'm not completely sure how many rounds where slung through it, but it wasn't much I believe. So a bit of polishing might be in order for it, especially sence I just got a brand new tube of Flitz.

As for the 44Mag 180gr XTP's performance, I read a couple reviews on Midway about shallow wounds on deer. I guess this bullet was designed mainly with revolvers in mind and at lower velicities. I still want to try them though.

[Ranger J]

I am getting ready to load some .44 Hornady 180g XTPs tonight with Red Dot or AA #2, Blue Dot and H110.  This should give me a good range of velocities to see how the barrel does with each.  I haven’t had much luck with heavier bullets so this is about my ‘load of last resort’.  I’ll let you know how these work out.
RJ

[Odinbreaker]

I use a 155 gr cast gas check and 4227 pwder good groups also just shot up 100 rounds of 175gr hard cast from Black Jack Hill excellent bullet and good accuracy

[myarmor]

RJ, I look forward to hearing how they perform for you.
Odin, I have thought about shooting some cast, but I have never loaded these before. And from all I hear they are a mess to clean up after, especially if you don't use a gas check. So thats the only reason I haven't looked into it much more. But I know many out there that absolutely love cast and swear by it.

[Ranger J]

I got out to the range this morning at 7 when it was still cool.  Last night I loaded 15 rounds of 9.5 G Red Dot, 10 rounds of 18 G Blue Dot, and I meant to load 10 with 29 G H110.  The first two loadings went well and then I got interrupted just as I should have made the adjustment on the powder measurer from the Blue Dot to the H 110 setting.  The result was that the 10 H 110 loads were somewhat lighter than I wanted .
I was shooting at the 50 yard bench.  I started out with the Red Dot loads and got the same lousy pattern I had been getting with heavier bullets.  This was somewhat of a surprise as the only decent groups I have been able to get with this barrel are with light AA#2  240 g loads.
I changed to the Blue Dot loads and also tightened the forearm screw about ½ turn.  The blue Dot loads were definitely crisper than the Red dot loads and I don?t know if it was the increased velocity or the tightened screw but I got a actual reasonable sized group.  There was one flyer but that could have been because of the loose screw behind the butplate.  I also noticed that the gun was kind of picky as to where it was rested.  As it has been noted by others it wanted to be rested  right on the forearm screw.
From the feel of the h 110 loads they were maybe just a hair hotter than the Blue Dot ones and I also got a nice group.  I had one flyer and all my flyers are on target left and right and are either too high or too low by about three inches, probably my mistake..
I am going to try the experiment over again as the light loaded H110s and the tightening of the forearm screw introduced too many variables to make too many conclusions.  I am pleased with the results of the faster loads.  I?ll reload some more in the next few days and hope to get everything right this time.  I?ll let you know how they work out.  If I continue to get good results from light bullets I will get some 180 or 200 Laser hard cast and try them.  I am looking for something I can get good results with and still shoot cheap.
RJ
RJ 

[myarmor]

Good report, thanks for sharing. I am curious to hear how your  H110 loads perform. As I hear it's "the" 44Mag powder.
So your rifle likes being rested under the forearm screw? I could never get any one my Handis to shoot well from the bench  unless supported under the receiver, nestled up to the trigger guard. Some Handis like it different, thats for sure.
Anyway I just got a new RockChucker Supreme press, and am about to mount it up today as a replacment for my old press. I have to say, this press is like a tank, I should have bought one a LOT sooner! Hope to get thte dies cleaned up and ready to size some brass tonight.

[Paul5388]

With all the upgrading going on, I am just getting back to this thread.

I was shooting my Dan Wesson 744 the other day using 240 gr Magtech JSPs with 15.0 gr Alliant 2400 and a CCI LP (I never can remember that number!) primer.  Using a red dot I had just installed, I got a 1 5/8" group at 25 yards using a sand bag rest for my hand.  Even though 2400 isn't THE powder anymore, I find it to be superior to H110/W296 and I don't have to worry about reduced loads with it.  The Hodgdon warning for H110 is

DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%.

and the same applies to W296!  If I was loading for a .44 Handi or for a .357 Handi, 2400 is the first place I would look.

Cast bullets are fine in Micro groove barrels, if they fit.  The real hard ones will keyhole and do other weird things if they don't fit the barrel, because they don't engrave properly for good stability.  Slug your barrel and then order bullets .001"-.002" larger than the largest reading you get on the barrel slug.  You might not want to order 1000 until you find out if they're the right size. 

EDIT: I just found a critical typo I corrected!

[georgeld]

IF you don't mind picking pellets from the bank. You're kinda stuck using someone else's idea's for bullets. At my range there's a whole lot of shooters so picking pellets dont' take forever. I can pickup 4" in a bucket in half an hour and barely carry the thing to the trk.

Lee's 6 cavity molds only cost $37, plus $13 more for the handles. In all, $50, then IF "as cast" don't do it, I'll slug the barrel and order a sizer die 1-2 thousandths over bore size for another $8-10 and be in business.

I've found most all recycled bullets are of a good hardness and won't lead a barrel even with extended use. BUT: you cannot exceed about 2300fps or they will lead the bore.  I cast and shoot cast bullets by the buckets full and don't get too excited about cleaning my guns overly often.  When I'm done shooting is the time to clean them. Unless I'm going out again within a couple days, then it's likely I won't even clean them then UNLESS it's the black powder stuff, then I WILL clean right away and clean a second time within a couple days, plus oil it up lightly too.

Best bore cleaner I've ever found is that fairly new stuff: Blue Wonder Gun Cleaner.  I just fill a bronze brush with the goop, run ten strokes, take ten minute break, ten more strokes and patch a few times til it's cleaned out. Then oil it up good so it don't flash rust.  That stuff will take everything out of a barrel. Lead, copper, plastic, bird droppings an even spider webs IF you've got em. Don't know as I've tried to use it on mud dauber's work yet or not. But, I'd bet it would work there too.

Long as you cast bullets are hard enough you can't mark it with a thumb nail, and is a little bit over the bore size, not loaded to max jacketed velocities you shouldn't have any problems with them shooting well, or leading a bore either one.
I've got a whole lot of scrap bullets from an indoor pistol range. That's the ideal source for me. Free for the shoveling up and all I desire to haul off.  This range produce's two 5 gallon buckets a week.

When melting down, I put a screen over my kettle, scrap on that and melt it with a second weed burner. That way all the high value copper jackets aren't ruined with lead melt mixed in it. The scrap yards around here won't buy that kind of mess, but, they will pay a good price for clean jackets. $40-50 a bucket full isn't wasted time IMO.

Oh yeah, I shoot those 115gr RN 30cals in my '06 with 4-10 gr Red Dot. That's a great loading for teaching women and kids how to shoot the big guns without hurting or scaring them with the recoil and blasts.

Good shootin,
George

[myarmor]

Definately sounds like you have found your source of lead there George   I have never cast any bullest before. Quite frankly I would love to try it some day, but I have too many projects right now to spend the time it would need. Still I see the attraction, and can appreciate what gos into casting your own. To tell ya the truth I would do the same if I were in your shoes, but my range is on family property in the country so the only shooters there just that, family.
And I too have started saving up for recycling as Berdan primed brass doesn't hold much value to me, and the Old Mauser loves em.
You guys have filled me in a little better about shooting cast, and I think I might just try some down the road a little bit. Thanks for the info. But before that the XTP's are getting the first try, perhaps the 200gr to start.