If you couldn't carry a handgun....

[thedave87]

When I can't carry a gun, I carry an assisted opener knife. I really like the glove idea Horsefeathers had. Hadn't really thought of that before, and I'll have to look into making a pair of gloves like that.

Horsefeathers
I had a pair of leather gloves stuffed in my back pocket but one glove had a large lead fishing sinker inserted in the thumb. A good whack whith that could do serious damage. And it didn't look out of place.

[S.S.]

I too will not go to a State that does not allow American citizens
their constitutional rights. As for Canada from the original post,
I don't know what to tell you. Rest assured, Criminals there are
carrying handguns. If you pull a can of mace or a knife out to defent yourself from one of them, You are going to be wounded or killed.
Just pray that you never have to use a weapon to defend yourself,
And if you do carry and have to use it, never tell anyone about it!
The right to preserve your own life should not be dictated by government.

[lovedogs]

I agree with Win73.  Why live in such a place?  I'd find a better place to live.  This is one of the main reasons I live where I do.  Montana is a wonderful place.  The hunting and outdoors is great.  And our law permits self-defense "by any means possible."

I have nothing against Canadians personally but won't travel to a place where I'm deprived of my right to defend.  That also includes many states right here in the good ol' USA.  In a way I hold the people of such places responsible because they've allowed someone to take their right away.  If everyone refused to patronize them they'd yield to pressure.  Don't travel there.  Don't buy things made there if at all possible to get it from somewhere else.  Don't support their oppressive attitudes.  Our problem is that we don't have the guts and the spirit of our forefathers to tell "big brother" that we the people are supposed to be the ones in charge.  We can vote.  We can protest.  We can refuse to knuckle under.  And we have (at least here in the U.S.) the right to legally challenge the hoplophobes.  What we lack is GUTS.

[BloomGrad]

I must say that sometimes I do not carry a gun but I do have a CCW pemit.  I have and do carry when I feel it's needed.  I don't live, work, or travel in a high "stress" areas on a daily basis like others that have posted.  Don't get me wrong, I don't live in a fantasy world.  I do believe that ANYTHING can happen, at ANYTIME, and ANYWHERE.  It is just not fully ingrained or desired on most days.  For me.  BUT...

I NEVER EVER, EVER, EVER GO OUT WITHOUT AN EDGE.  Knife edge that is.  I go with Medium size with XL capabilities.

My first preference is a Spyderco DELICA with 50/50 Spyderedge blade.  I'ts hard to tell how much I'm impressed with the service I've gotten from this knife.  I will only recomend the 50/50 edge when somebody asks about protection.  The forward unserrated part of the blade gets 75% of a pocket knife duty of small cuts and stuff like letter or box opening.  The close serrated half of the Spyderedge cuts the big stuff like ropes, straps and seat belts.  On the defense side the Syperedge would cut through a tendon faster than any miscreant could pull his arm back.  There are many self defense courses for edged weapons.  If you have never seen what a Spyderedge can do check out some books, videos or classes.  My next Spyderco would be the Endura, as it is a little bigger.  These two knives have been on lots the patrolman's belts since 1990. 

My second prefence is Cold Steel's mid size VOYAGER with a plain edge.  I bought this Pre 9/11 and at the time there was a restriction on serrated in a carryon bag.  Ah the good old days.  Many jurisdictions have rules against serrated edges so my Voyager gets the start on those days.

Lots of emergency room surgeons will tell you that a knife, used properly, will maim or kill just as fast.   

Any tactically trained Police officer will tell you that inside the 15 foot mark a person with a knife will get you faster than the reaction time to draw a CCW gun and fire.

You just have to be 100% sure you will win.  Any fight or confrontation is lost due to lack of will power.  Many times before it even starts.

Hope this helps.

[DWTim]

Any tactically trained Police officer will tell you that inside the 15 foot mark a person with a knife will get you faster than the reaction time to draw a CCW gun and fire.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,93579.0.html

What happened to 20 feet and the element of surprise?

Anyway, if I was sure the risk would be that high, I would avoid that dangerous place at all costs.

[Dee]

Before I retired 12 years ago I carried a 1911 on my belt along with a lock blade knife also on my belt. A model 60 smith in my coat or pants pocket depending on the season. An M4A2 in the seat beside me and an 870 with 6 round mag extension in a pouch sewed onto the front of the front seat cushion of my tactical K-9 unit. Three years before I left L.E. (after 20 years) I got a new Chief who was originally from Canada and had on 7 years on the street in a suburb for experience. He asked me if I was paranoid? I said no, I just don't trust anyone. If my 45 is not welcome in a state, neither am I. An armed society is a polite society.

[covertcowboy]

it sucks gettin hit in the face with a can of raid (the big black can), same with steel toes
and bike chain with a pack-lock on the end is gonna hurt, almost as bad as the rebar idea if you do it right

hope i never have to....

[Dee]

The bottom line here is to stay out of bad areas. Illinois, Washington DC, New York State, Massachuchets, Maine, California, Wisconsin, CANADA! Then you'll always have your gun and be in a place where bad guys always appreciate you. An armed society is a polite society.

[lovedogs]

Say, BloomGrad, did you hear about the man who brought a knife to a gunfight?  Dee and a few others are right.  It's just smart to avoid problem areas.  And equally smart to live in an area that honors and appreciates our right to self-defense as well as our right to keep and bear arms.  It's not a priviledge but a right!

Talk all you want about the various means by which one might defend themselves but keep in mind that unless you've been there you are just speculating what you might do or how things might turn out.  Anyone who's actually been there knows which is the best defense.  In my younger days I was in the military where reality comes to you suddenly.  I also held several belts in martial arts.  I've worked in law enforcement and the correctional system.  I've tasted pepper spray and mace.  Not fun, but if your life depends on your response you WILL fight through it!  I've also been shot and stabbed.  No question that a knife can do serious damage.  But it doesn't even compare to a gunshot!  I'll carry a gun, thank you!

[tryit]

All, when I lived in a state for a while that did not allow the individual to carry a gun. A friend of mine gave me a bottle that butane came in but had been modified to be pressurized and released with a push button. The can contained methyl alcohol and compressed air. Also a fast trigger butane lighter came with the can. Spray the perps and send a wave of flaming methanol in their direction. He, I hear had to use it when he was stabbed twice on a subway. The perps got burnt badly and my friend spent 2 months in the hospital. Needless to say the good liberal folks tried to get him for the burnings but dropped it for lack of evidence. He now lives in a SHALL CARRY state and loves it. Tryit.

[LEO]

While I agree a firearm is the prefered method of defense, the question wasn't a debate of that, it was what to use when you couldn't carry a firearm.  As far as moving somewhere where you can carry, sometimes that just isn't practical or possible either.  To answer the question ask, the staff/strongly built walking staff in even mildly trained hands is a fierce weapon.  Get at least some training and get a good one, the advantage is I don't know of anywhere that a plain old walking stick/cane is against the law.  There are numerous accounts of folks with a short staff taking out multiple swordsmen.

As far as pepper spray goes, speaking from experience it either works really well or really poorly, there doesn't seem like there is much middle ground.  Avoid the fog/spray kind because, I about guarentee that the wind will be in the wrong direction when you need it  Go with the stream or foam type OC spray.  There is an argument that with the foam they can rake it off and throw  it back at you but as a civilian you are not going to engage the bad guy after you have sprayed them anyway, you are going to create distance.

As far as knives go they are also effective but you must be in closer proximity to use them and many jurisidictions place tough restrictions on carrying knives anyway, the same also applies to stun guns. 

So go with the walking stick, get some training on how to use it, practice with it and be aware of your surroundings because obviously the best way to deal with those types of situations is to avoid them but that isn't always possible.  If you must use your weapon commit 100% to the use of it.  Mindset is a key to combat, there are many people carrying handguns that have a false since of security because they have not made the mental commitment to aggressively respond to an attack.  I have had many people say that they could never "hurt" anyone, that they only carry the handgun to scare them away.  Newsflash folks, most criminals are not afraid of a gun, they are afraid of someone who has a gun, appears to know how to use it, and most importantly while they may not want to use it are willing to.  The point of this is the person who is carrying a walking stick and has made the mental commitment to defend themselves without regard to their attacker is better equiped that the timid soul with the finest defensive firearm ever produced.
Stay safe

[Dee]

Point made leo. I always carry a slightly modified Cold Steel Ti-Lite wheather I carry a pistol or a rifle. To the store or church, it's there.

[MOGLEY]

Pepper spray is hard to beat. Especially in a court when you remind them you defended yourself with a non leathal tool. There are many stungun variations out there including pen style. They are great, not only do you defend yourself but  you get entertained as well.!! With both how is anyone going to put up a real case on you for using non leathal methods against an attack....... and yes I nkow the capabilities
of laywers. I was in LE for sometime.  I live in MAINE and have ccw permit. I don't think our laws for carry are bad. Unless there is something I am not aware of....... I have had one for 15 years now.

I agree that defending yourself is better than becoming a victim. I have not seen anyone that is against guns willing to put a sign in the front yard stating that there is no weapons inside their house. When asked why,   they state your case better than you can!

[Almtnman]

I might have missed it in one of the posts, but anyway here goes. I used to have to go to one place everyday that I couldn't carry a handgun with me there. So I just took a 3 cell Maglight with me then. It makes a very good club especially if you hold it by the bulb end. Now since I don't go there anymore, I just carry my Sig P220 with me all the time now. A good length of 1 inch rubber heater hose about 18 inches long laying next to the drivers seat also proves useful if you just want to get somebody off you in a hurry. It only takes a couple of whacks with the hose to make them want to move to the next county. And if someone asks about the hose, all you say is" Got to get to the parts store and find a longer hose in this size to fit the truck I'm working on".

If I take a walk up my driveway, I usually strap on an old Victory model S&W 38 special just in case some nut case drives in before I get back to the house. If the area is fairly safe and a place that I'm very famaliar with, I carry a 5 foot Red Elm hiking stick. A couple of licks with that will deter a pretty tough hombre. And of course, there's always a knife in my pocket all the time. And if you want to really do some joker in, one of the folding entrencing tools that the Army issues is better than a tomahawk.