sporterization- do or don't?

[mjbgalt]

i have a k31 and like it a lot. i want to use it as a hunting rifle...

i could just buy a sporter stock and keep the original incase it becomes a collector...

is a matching-numbers k31 a collector? the wood is bad but the metal is nice.

-Matt

[acloco]

It is already a collector.  No longer being imported.  All K31's did not have matching numbers either.

Aftermarket stock is fine, just keep the original.

[jh45gun]

Yea as long as you can put it back to origional you sure will not hurt anything. Expecially since you can get nongunsmithing scope mounts that will not harm the gun in both the rail mount and the scout mount. I have mine in  a scout mount but left every thing else origional even then it is not that heavy that you could not use it as is. Nice guns I really like mine.

[mjbgalt]

i bought it for $129...if it is a collector and not being imported, why the low price and the ads from several places that they have them in stock?

-Matt

[TribReady]

It's like alot of milsurp weapons, they just aren't being made anymore....no matter how abundant they may seem now.
For what you'll get out of it, I'd first recommend just spending some $$ and getting a new rifle for hunting.
Second, I'd say, get the aftermarket stock and whatever scope mount, and replace those, but do not alter the original rifle and always be able to "put back" inyto military configuration.
Third, do as I do with almost all of my milsurps, hunt with it as is, if it's suitable to defend a soldier, a unit, and a country, it's suitable for most hunting situations......even adding a scope that allows you to put back the original sights easily is a small alteration and if the hunt is successful, you'll be glad you kept the old girl the way it was meant to be 

[jack19512]

I don't think anyone can really tell you what a mil-surplus rifle will be worth in the future.  Most will eventually go up in value, but just how much would be anyones guess.

One good thing about the K31 you really don't have to make any permanent changes to the rifle to make it into a good hunting rifle.

There wasn't as many K31's made as there was some of the other mil-surplus rifles such as the M/N's, there are a gazillion of them.

Being sold at a low price means absolutely nothing when talking about the future value of something.  Doesn't mean it will be worth a lot more in the future either.


Matching numbers is always a plus and from what I have seen the wood on most K31's might be considered bad until you make it beautiful if you want.

[Swampman]

What will it do if you sporterize it, that it won't do now.  Any change, even refinishing the stock will make it worth less.  We do not own historical artifacts.  They are on loan to us for our lifetime.  Then we pass them on to the next generation.

[jack19512]

  Any change, even refinishing the stock will make it worth less. 

I don't buy that.  We're talking about a rifle that as far as I know really don't have a lot of historical value if any.   Thus probably won't see the appreciated value some of the other mil-surplus rifles have enjoyed.  I don't know everything about the K31 but it seems to have led a very quiet life. 

When the K31 is brought up in conversation the two most talked about attributes is how well it is made and how accurate it is, which should in time cause an increase in value as a shooter but not when it comes to any historical value.  And the M/N's, I think there are just too many of them to ever have any real collectible value to them.  But they are good shooters for the most part.

As far as refinishing the stock on the K31, if done right,  I have no doubt that in a couple years if I had a K31 that the stock wasn't refinished and I had one that the stock was refinished which one would sell first.  But this is of course just my opinion.  I have been known to be wrong in the past.

[jh45gun]

If a gun is a obvious rare rifle a person would be foolish to mess with it. What we are seeing now are nothing spectacular and I doubt they ever will be. Getting a mauser with complete nazi markings is collectable for the obvious reason. Getting a Turk with the markings ground off or restamped is not. The K31 and the other swiss straight pulls are unique as you could restock them into a sporter and save the old wood and still put it back origional if you wanted to. The beauty of the rifle is you do not have to mess with the bolt and alter it or bend it and a bolt on rail mounted scope mount is available to use or a scout mount that gives you glass with out harming the gun.  What more could you ask for! What We have little time on this rock and if I want to make a sporter out of a milsurp and enjoy it while I can that is my business.  I left mine intact except for the scout mount. To me these guns would be the easiest to sporterize. Just add a aftermarket stock and put on a scope mount of your choice. Pretty easy except for the inletting of the stock as even the drop in stocks need some adjustment.

[mjbgalt]

i decided to leave it as-is and make the mauser conversion i am working on, my only project for now.

i have the mauser almost exactly as i want it, and all i need is to install the safety and drill and tap for scope mounts and screw a 7mm-08 barrel onto it, and i am done.

it's been a rewarding project but i think the k31 is good as-is and i will leave it that way. at most i would order a sporter stock for it so i can put it back to original when i want to.

-Matt

[S.S.]

Importers will say "Last lot to be imported" ....."NO More"
or "Captured at Stalingrad"
To sell out their stock to make room for different
things. There are now so many milsurp bolt action rifles
of most models on the market now that they are simply no longer rare !
Importers have stamped markings and proofmarks onto them now
so we will never really know the history of any particular guns anymore.
By doing this they have severely damaged or killed all together
the collector market. Nazi proof marks and unit markings mean nothing anymore,
because we have no way of telling if they are original. I would pay no more
for a Nazi proofed Mauser 98, than any other 98 now. Because it is probably
a faked piece anyway. This goes for most markings. I now go only by
the condition of the piece and possibly the Receiver Crest. 
(Receiver crest is difficult to fake)

[Swampman]

At one time you could buy Krag rifles for $1.50.  Now some Krag rear sights will bring $800.00.  What was once common and cheap is now expensive and rare because so many were "bubbaized."  I recently owned a Krag carbine that would have been worth $4500.00 if it had it's original sights.  It was worth $250.00 with the nice Redfield sights that were on it..

[Slamfire]

We do not own historical artifacts.  They are on loan to us for our lifetime.  Then we pass them on to the next generation.

Bull! The rifle belongs to you, you bought it and paid your money. The future generations didn't. Do what you want to personalize it to your liking. If milsurps hadn't be sporterized in the past, they wouldn't be worth as much as they are in as issued form. A quality rebuild, by a know customizer, ADDS to the value. Try and buy a Springfield sold at Abercrombie & Fitch. You'll get a whole case of "collector grade" Mausers for the same money. 

[acloco]

Remember Swedish M96's?  Purchased all of them for $39 to $59...now....minimum of $250 to $350 in original military condition.

NO retirement program that I am aware of gave a 500% return on your money in 10 years.

[Swampman]

I'd like to have a M96 Carbine.  I don't care for the cartridge but those little carbines are sweet.  The Chliean Mauser Carbines in 7X57 would be nice but they are too expensive too.

[S.S.]

I have to admit that I do not much care for Chopping up a nice piece of history
myself. If you take a Nice Mauser 98 Milsurp and "trick" it out with all sorts of Doo-Dads.
Spend several hundred dollars "Renovating" it, What do you have in the end?
You still have a 98 Mauser Milsurp that you have killed any collector value it may have had !
Bare in mind that you may be able to sell it to someone that is not in the Know about firearms
and still make some money though.
 

[jh45gun]

You cannot say this about most of the Swedes I have seen or the K31's the ones I have seen have been all matching and maybe some day be collectors the K31 due to the limited number made and the uniqueness about them and the Swedes their good condition and I suppose a smaller number than most other countries mausers also.  but what about the millions of mismatched Mosins and Turk Mausers and other Mausers that have mismatched bolts and other parts.  These guns will never in my opinion be collector guns because of the shape they are in and the mismatched parts. I see nothing wrong making a sporter out of these guns or a semi sporter for hunting or what ever. Like I said about the K31 you could scope that with out altering it and have a good hunting gun then as is or you could get a different stock and have the best of both worlds.

[bbqsnbeer]

I have fun with my No4Mk1* Longbranch . I picked up different stocks for whatever the "mood" I feel at the time .This way my rifle remains original .
Photos are all the same rifle ,
original

sniper mode

Buck hunter

[rockbilly]

If I had the foresite to buy milsurp weapons back in the fifties when people were telling me they were plentiful, and would never have any value, then I could have a gold mine in guns today.

I did manage to buy a few, Mausers of all types were selling for as little as $15.00 each, .303s were going for about the same price.  The DCM sold Garrards, M1 carbines, and 03s for as little as $25.00.  At this time, many of the guns were near perfect, and there were plenty of them.  Look at the price today.  I think any milsurp weapon will increase in price iuf you can hold on to it, and maintain it in good condition.

In the mid 60s I bought Sweds for $120. a case.  A case contained 10 guns.  Most of the guns were in very good condition, they were mostly sportrized and sold as "Deer Guns".  I sure wish I had some of the old 38s back.  They would demand a good price today.

I recommend being selective in buying.  Buy guns with matching serial numbers when possible, keep them as original, or where they can be put back to original.  Do not do any drilling or tapiping for scopes, etc.  If you want to sportarize one, get a non=serial number matching gun and go for it, but keep the matching guns as you find them. Someday they will increase in value.  JMHO.

[S.S.]

I agree that they will increase some in value.
But look back to the 1960's when the Milsurp market really began
in ernest, Then factor in Inflation on everything between then and now.
The increase in value will drop quite a bit I'll bet.
In the over all picture of things that is.

[Cement Man]

I have mixed feelings.  I started with Milsurps about 20 years ago.  Enfields, Swedes, Argentines, Brazilians, Steyr Mannlichers, FR 8's, 03A3, some others here and there, and this year I acquired a few K-31's. I have some really pristine examples, most are excellent, and all but one with matching numbers.  In the most "general" average sense, I would estimate that my 20 year old milsurps have increased in value about 3 to 4 times what I paid for them.  Of course the more prime examples of the more desireable models like the Swedes lead the pack, and some others don't appreciate that much.  I figure that equates to between 6% and 7% annual appreciation over that time.  That's not like a hot stock, but it's better than many other investments. I would have a hard time even thinking of chopping up an almost perfect Swede or Argentine. Still, I feel like I bought them for me to shoot and enjoy, and if I want to modify one or refinish one, that's what I bought it for - for me to enjoy. I don't own any high dollar .30 carbines, or anything THAT costly, and I would not touch a truly pristine milsurp - no reason to.
I did have one Argentine (which I paid about $100 for) made into a beautiful '06 Mannlicher style carbine, but most of my other modifications are reversible - scout mounts, mojo sights, etc.  I keep all the original pieces to return to the rifle if necessary.  I do intend to do some stock refinishing on my K-31's - because I enjoy them more when the wood looks good.

[jack19512]

I agree that they will increase some in value.
But look back to the 1960's when the Milsurp market really began
in ernest, Then factor in Inflation on everything between then and now.
The increase in value will drop quite a bit I'll bet.
In the over all picture of things that is.

I think this is an important point most people don't think about or consider when thinking about the increase in value of something.

I can remember back in the early 70's and I believe I could buy a gallon of gasoline for 30 cents back then.  Just recently gas was almost 3 dollars a gallon in my area.

Well, if my math is correct if I had held onto a 30 cent gallon of gas back then I could have sold it for 3 dollars today.  Which is 10 X profit what I gave for it.  Sounds good doesn't it.

But, what would that 3 dollars buy me today?  It would buy me 1 gallon of gasoline.  So, it looks like I held onto a gallon of gas for 35 years only to break even in the end.

[S.S.]

I personally do not buy them to re-sell anyway.
I shoot them lots !
I just hate to see someone Tie up a lot of time,
Money and energy in Sporterizing a rifle only
to still have an old rifle when they are done!
Maybe a nicer looking old rifle,,
But an old rifle none the less !

[Swampman]

"Maybe a nicer looking old rifle,," that has been ruined for future generations.

[rockbilly]

Granted, a gallon of gasoline purchased in the 70s might bring 10x today, but if that purchase price had been invested in stock, or even on a US Savings Bond, what would it be worth today?

My point, I look at my firearms collection as a part of my investment program, one that I can play with, shoot and enjoy, but will show a considerable profit over the initial purchase price when I am ready to liquidate.

It would be wise to look at all firearms purchases as an investment, and try to manage the investment to the best of your ability.

[mjbgalt]

i am sick of hearing "ruined for future generations" as if there are no museums, web sites, or books. if someone wants to go see a pristine mauser with matching serials, go to a museum and see one. not ruined.

if i choose to take something I bought with my own money, which now belongs to ME, and make it into something else, it's quite frankly no one else's damn business.

however, that said, i would not sporterize a matching-numbers, perfect rifle, because it would mean something to me and perhaps be worth a lot someday. but i sure wouldn't waste any time telling someone else what to do with their own gun.

future generations is a shallow way to look at it...for instance...as if i am somehow less of a person because my family doesn't own any civil war cannons? would i somehow be better off or happier if i had a mauser in perfect shape gathering dust and rust in a closet somewhere, or if i have a very nicely done sporter that i use and enjoy and that feeds my family?

[Cement Man]

I'm sure that the majority of my milsurps will remain available in original condition for future generations - because that's the way I like them. My money, my rifles, my choice.  But, future generations will just have to accept my beautiful modified 1909 Argentine Mauser in 30.06, Mannlicher stock, Timney trigger, Model 70 safety, premium barrel, that shoots .5" groups - just the way it is. I'm very fond of that old Mauser and in my mind it was respectful and a tribute to rejuvenate it to a top notch hunting rifle - which it now is.

[Swampman]

These relics are not just for our own future generatios, they are for all future generations.  When a piece of history is destroyed it, cannot be replaced.  A "Bubbaized" Mauzer won't do anything an as issued Mauser won't do.  You have the right to destroy them, but is it ethical?

Just the thoughts of one who has cringed while looking at hundreds of "Bubbaized" relics including Brown Bess muskets, 1896 Krag Carbines, and a Lee Enfield .45-70.........

[Cement Man]

My mauser isn't "bubba-ized". 
It won't do anything an issued Mauser won't do?  Yes it will do something an original won't do:  It will go hunting with me.  I'm 60 years old and I can't see good enough to use the original sights any more. It now wears a scope and a turned down bolt handle  I don't want to tote a long, heavy rifle all day in the woods, the hills, and the brush.
Future generations needn't worry - I saved the really pristine piece of glorious Argentine military history as is.  Also, now they will get another dimension to history.  Two hundred years from now, they can view my unaltered rifle, and also what I did to make better use of the other one.  A pair - kind of like an original cap and ball revolver, and one that had a cartridge conversion. 
I guess mine will have to be a "historical representative example of a sporterized military arm" - a 20th century practice that (historically) was often done with some of the millions and millions of bolt action arms manufactured in the 20th century, sporterized by people who bought them and felt it was ethically their right to use their own property as they saw fit to do so.

[jh45gun]

To me if it is a pristine example then maybe the collector crowd has a point but most of the guns I am seeing with the exception of the Swedes and the K31s being sold in the last few years are mismatched put to gether guns which in my opinion is a example of the gun, but not really a collectable one. Most of the Mosins and Turk Mausers are Utility grade at best with some of the others inbetween like the Yugo's ect. Many of the Spanish or South American Mausers are poorly kept up the and the barrels like sewer pipes so why not convert these also to a hunting gun and get some use out of them they surely are no good as is. The Spanish or South American Mausers that are in good shape maybe should be left alone as they are not easy to find.

Even at that my go to rifle now for hunting is a 96 Swede that has been shortened and my permanent mount put on it for a scout rifle. Yea the purist may cringe but I love that gun shot a nice doe last year with it and it will go hunting again with me this fall. I love the caliber and I like the way it is set up. Since I have seen very few 6x55 sporters around though I know they made them and since most are out of my price range I made my own Swede Sporter and am very happy with it. Same with my K31 that is Scout scoped too but that is a add on scout mount that can be taken off and put back to origional. The stock on that I left alone. With the exception of a 7x57 Mauser that was put together from parts the rest of my milsurp collection I sold off and kept the above. Got rid of my collectors license too so I would not be tempted  These three are more than enough to make me happy.