Shipping firearms – some advice & a FedEx sales pitch

[TexasMac]

I’m on my “high horse” again about shipping firearms and thought I’d post some comments here.  I realize that many of you seldom have the need to ship a firearm.  But if you do I highly recommend FedEx.  I have shipped many higher-priced firearms across the country using FedEx Ground, and the cost has been around $25 to $35, including insurance.  I like FedEx's easily to use on-line service whereby I can print shipping labels and charge shipping to my credit card.  Hence no standing in line at the FedEx counter.  Just run in and toss the package on the counter, no question asked.  And, if desired, you can request an automatic acknowledgement of shipping to the receiver.  Of course, on-line tracking and shipping acknowledgement is available.  I also find my local FedEx office is much more customer friendly than UPS.

By now most of you know that UPS’ policy is to only ship handguns via Next Day Air, an option that typically costs about four times what it costs to ship via ground.  So most folks use other carriers.  But many still use UPS for long guns.  I’ve had three rifles damaged in transit with UPS.  All three were packaged very well.  One sender (owner of a large gun shop) said, “this was the last straw”, they would no longer use UPS.  I’ve noted similar sentiment from other dealers.  It sure makes one wonder if there are individuals within UPS with an agenda.  Plus, it’s been my experience that UPS customer service leaves a lot to be desired.

I’ve experienced other problems with UPS and have used FedEx to ship all my firearms for some time and have had excellent service.  US Postal Service (USPS) will ship firearms and has a good reputation for minimal damage, but the drawback is the costly insurance fees and sometimes dealing with ignorant staffers.  A $1500 firearm costing approx. $25 to ship FedEx (fully insured) will cost close to twice that insured through the USPS.  So I’m promoting FedEx in hopes that us firearms owners use them enough to insure they don’t change their policies, as did UPS.  I understand that DHL, the latest carrier to compete with UPS and FedEx, does not ship firearms.  So with UPS’ restrictions and internal problems; the USPS high fees and sometimes very unfriendly and ignorant staffers, I feel we need to do everything possible to insure FedEx realizes that the shooting community is a valuable customer.

And some final words of advice, regardless of the carrier you use, do not put anything in the address or write anything on the box that suggests the content of the package is a firearm.  Most shippers assume that a long skinny box likely contains a rifle.  The contents of a box holding a pistol is less obvious, but play it safe and don’t confirm the contents by sending it to Bob’s Gun Shop or Jim’s Firearms Inc.  Consider using BGS or JFI respectively.  It’s the actual address that matters, not the name of the business.  And don’t forget to fully insure that package.

Wayne

[quickdtoo]

I would think twice about shipping by Fedex, this was posted on AR by Interboat in February. From some of the replies it appears neither Fedex or UPS will pay for claims on firearms.

Tim

URGENT WARNING RE: FEDEX

If you ship a gun via FedEx and have an insurance claim, you will be totally screwed. Period. FedEx has a “Catch 22” in its insurance claims adjustment policy that makes it impossible to collect on a firearms claim.

Unlike UPS or USPS, FedEx will not do an on-site inspection of damage no matter how obvious it may be, but insists on taking the entire gun back to their offices for inspection even if you just have a cracked stock or bent scope. A couple of FedEx employees will show up at the recipient’s place, presumably an FFL, and ask for the gun to be turned over to them. This is the first of a series of federal felonies that are the direct result of FedEx company policy.

According to three separate BATFE sources I discussed the matter with, FedEx is only licensed to transport guns to another legitimate party – they have no legal right to send some clerk who is not the legal buyer out to pick up a gun to bring back to the office for somebody to look at. It is a felony for a FedEx employee to even ask an FFL to do that. It would be a felony if the FFL were dumb enough to hand the gun over – he would lose his license and his business as surely as if he gave a gun to some guy who walked in off the street without submitting to a background check, etc. It is a felonious conspiracy for FedEx employees to pressure the FFL (which they often do) to give them the gun despite the law. The entire FedEx process is the result of some corporate lawyer’s complete ignorance of federal firearms laws and it has the potential to seriously criminalize everybody involved.

As FedEx employee Donna Buchleitner of the Pittsburgh office explained rather tersely, my insurance claim was denied because the gun was not made available to them “as required by the FedEx Service Guide.” Never mind the fact that the gun was indeed not made available to them as required by federal law. Or, as a Miami FedEx employee snapped even more directly over the phone, “We are not concerned with the law, we follow company policy.”

The end result is that you will receive a form letter from FedEx stating that since they were unable to pick up the gun to inspect the damage your insurance claim is denied.

I wrote a well-documented letter concerning my own experience with this FedEx insurance scam to the FedEx employee supposedly in charge of such matters, a Mr. T. Michael Glenn, FedEx Corporation, 942 South Shady Grove Road, Memphis, TN 38120. As they might say in the newspaper business, “the accused was not available for comment, did not acknowledge our correspondence, and refused to return phone calls.”

BE WARNED. Do not use FedEx for shipping guns (or anything else for that matter, given their disreputable and dishonest treatment of gunowners). Any insurance claim you may have will be denied automatically and you will suffer the entire loss of your property. I guarantee it!

[Timberlake]

USPS is the best way to ship and avoid most hassles.  Costs more but safe delivery is what we're looking for.  UPS is the worst and dealing with their infrastructure is a nightmare full of people that I consider dumber than a post.  I've never used Fed Ex.

TL

[TexasMac]

Well guys, it seems like I’m gonna hafta eat some of my words and lower my recommendation of FedEx a little.  Just shipped another Browning BPCR to a fellow in NY.  Used FedEx Ground and you guessed it, the stock was badly cracked at the wrist during transit.  So the score so far for me is 2 for 2 for UPS, 2 for 20 for FedEx, and 0 for 1 for USPS.  We’ll see how well the FedEx claim process works this time.

Wayne

[DWTim]

The in-house inspection has been their policy (UPS and FedEx) for a long time. They're just too stupid to realize how restrictive gun laws are in this country, and just how much trouble they're causing. There seems to be this common misconception that our gun control laws are lax; most folks don't realize what each one of us has to go through for our hobby, not to mention a FFL 01 dealer. It's a lose-lose situation, because if a bunch of us got together for a class action, they'd probably crack open the champagne bottles, because now they'd have a real excuse to ban shipment of firearms entirely.

However, let me give you another perspective: I used to do inspections for a national carrier, specifically with computer equipment. Yes, they go outside the company sometimes to get an opinion, and I was a "subcontractor". The vast majority of the cases I handled were obviously an attempt at fraud, and a poor one at that. To give you an example, one guy removed as many screws as possible from an old 386 and left the processor sitting in the bottom of the case. He then proceeded to ship it with about two foam peanuts inside a poorly-taped box. When it ultimately arrived non-functional (and rather battered) at its destination, the sender attempted to collect on a claim of $500. First off, a 386 PC was only worth $100 at the time, so that was a dead giveaway that he was attempting fraud. Second, the shipper's clerk was probably in on the deal, because none of the ones I know around here would ever let a package go out like that.

So now you can see why UPS and FedEx behave like they do. I'm not trying to paint your FFL dealers with that brush, but I'm showing you that they're up against a company that has been taught not to trust its customers. The other "unmentionable problem" is employee theft and willful destruction of customer property. It's bad, yet when is the last time you saw some sorter or driver be arrested and charged? Yeah, me neither. The destruction part is easy to deal with: Overpackage. I shipped a lot of stuff when I had my computer repair business. You want to overpackage, especially with hamhanded UPS sorters. I guarantee that even the most violent sorter would not be able to crack a stock through 12 inches of foam, and a properly sealed container.

And then we have theft. People that work for UPS and FedEx probably have about the same ratio of criminals as a cross-section of the population as a whole, and the occurance of employee theft is no different there than with any other company. This is probably what makes firearms such an annoyance for these companies. They can't sweep it under the rug like they do with all the other thefts and purposeful damage. It also appears that they don't have time to review federal firearms laws inbetween power lunches and Powerpoint presentations. I question the wisdom of marking the outside of the container when it contains firearms. You might as well write "steal me!" on it with a big Sharpie. But it goes to show what the attitude is: The company is trying to protect its workers from their own bad behavior. They're basically saying, "okay children, if you're gonna smash or steal a package, don't grab one marked 'firearm'."

For those of you who are interested, I request FedEx when I can, because they have shown me that they are more trustworthy than the Big Brown Machine. Have yet to ship a firearm with them, but when I do, I'll post about any problems. Thanks for reading.

EDIT: One more thing, package insurance is a joke and a scam. Any financial advisor will be quick to tell you that when you purchase insurance against a condition that may be created by the company you are purchasing the insurance from... you've got a conflict of interest there. I'd still do it, but it's more to declare the value of the shipped goods than anything else.

[marlinman93]

 I'll stick with USPS, or UPS. Even though the dorks at UPS stole a gun in shipment to me, they were very quick to reimburse fully.

[TexasMac]

Since I started this thread, and based on the feedback and comments, I used USPS Priority Registered mail for the 1st time to shipped a $2200 Winchester BPCR Creedmoor to a guy in Wyoming.  As noted here, or possibly on one of the other forums where I also started a similar thread, Registered Mail requires a special "wet & stick" reinforced tan tape over all the open box seams.  The tape was provided by the Postal Clerk, along with a wet sponge.

The biggest advantage: The USPS says "Items you send with Registered Mail are placed under tight security from the point of mailing to the point of delivery, and insured up to $25,000 against loss or damage. And you can verify the date and time of delivery and the delivery attempts online. "

Another advantage:  Priority Registered Mail with insurance is significantly cheaper than just Priority Mail with insurance.  Since Registered Mail means the item is under "tight security" the insurance fees are much less.  The total fee for Priority Registered Mail from Texas to Wyoming, with $2200 insurance and signature confirmation was $34 versus $46 for regular Priority mail with $2200 insurance.  FedEx would have charged $24, but I’ll gladly pay the additional $10 to insure undamaged delivery.

So thanks guys, for all your inputs.  I certainly learned something from this and similar threads and will only be shipping fully assembled “long guns” using the USPS.  No more FedEx and absolutely no UPS.  I still plan on using FedEx for items that present no stock damage such as when shipping rifles without a stock or with the stock packaged separately.

Wayne

[bones22]

Without question USPS, They will pay off on insurance claims. Handguns can be shipped cheaper by USPS than any other way. You must be a FFL holder to ship handguns by mail.

[procrastinator43]

Gentleman sent me an M1 Garand throught the US Postal Service. Fedex delivered it with a busted stock (broken at the wrist also). After checking the USPS web site, it seems that they have a contract with Fedex to deliver parcel post packages. Priority mail is handled by the USPS.

[Tom W.]

Send it Registered mail, and insure the daylights out of it!
 I just sent my Ruger #1 to N.H.
It took some time to get there, and I don't know what condition it is in as of now, but I should know within the next day or so.
The man at the P.O. said that I couldn't mail a rifle. I told him according to the Treasury website, I could mail it to a FFL holder. He got out his book and we went through it, and low and behold, I was right. Now begins the long wait for the work to be done on it. If I wasn't already grey and mostly bald, I suppose the wait would make me so!

[marlinman93]

 Received 3 guns recently. One from each of the above sources. Here's how they went:
 Fed Ex- Left a note on the door, "Package in flower bed." Luckily still there when I got home!
 UPS-Left box on the porch, rang the bell, ran like ...you know what!  Luckily wife was home!
 USPS-Left note on door, went to PO when I got home, signed and showed ID, got gun.

 I like USPS!

[TexasMac]

Update on my recent FedEx rifle damage claim:

Although I now almost exclusively us the US Postal Service’s Registered Mail to ship rifles, a recent FedEx damage claim was still pending.  My prior and only previous experience with FedEx’s damage claim process was quite positive.  I was on the receiving end of a damaged Browning BPCR (stock was cracked during shipment).  The claim process was relatively quick and FedEx agreed they caused the damage.

In the most recent case I was the sender of a Browning BPCR, which was damaged by FedEx (stock also badly cracked) in transit.  After discussing the situation with the buyer, I initiated a claim and requested that FedEx pick up the rifle, inspect the damage, and ship it back to me.  I then sent the rifle to Browning for a written repair estimate.  After several weeks Browning responded with a repair estimate of over $500 to replace the stock.  After receiving the repair estimate I submitted, via certified mail, the required FedEx claim documents along with a cover letter and Browning’s estimate.  Three days after FedEx received the documents the claim was approved and check for the repairs and the original shipping amount is in the mail.  The whole process took 6 weeks, but for most of the time (over 4 weeks) I was waiting for an estimate from Browning.

Most of you have heard horror stories about UPS’ and FedEx’s failure to pay off on damage claims.  Concerning UPS, my two similar experiences have been very negative.  Their claim process sucks.  One was denied and the other was only paid after the dealer that sent the rifle threatened to stop using UPS.  FedEx has been a different story, at least concerning the claim process.  But my positive response from FedEx may be influenced by the fact that I have a small-business account with them and have shipped numerous firearms using FedEx.  An individual filing a claim with little or no history with FedEx may have a different experience.

By the way, as a side note, shortly after I was notified that the rifle was received damaged by the buyer’s dealer, I gave the buyer an option to keep the rifle and I would send him a refund for the cost of repairs and shipping to Browning, or have FedEx return the rifle to me and I would immediately refunded the full cost of the rifle plus shipping.  I was not surprised that he chose the latter.  In doing so I was prepared to eat the repair costs should FedEx decide not to pay off on the claim.  I believe this is only fair to the buyer, but does not seem to be a common practice in Internet gun selling & buying business.

And another note, for the repair estimate, and thinking that Browning did not need the internal receiver parts to replace the stock, I shipped only the stripped receiver with barrel and forearm.  Browning sent back an estimate but refused to replace the stock until I sent them all the internal action parts.  It turns out that Browning’s repair procedure includes test firing all firearms for liability reasons after any repair, no matter how minor.  So, after priority mailing the action parts, I’m now patiently waiting for the repaired rifle, which will most likely be delayed due to the many firearms being sent in for repairs in preparation for the upcoming hunting season.

Wayne

[shermbob]

Three out of four guns that I had received via Fedex  from Montana to Pa last year came in broke.  2 split stocks and a bent scope I ship everything USPS.
shermbob