Makarov P-64, Kel-tec 9mm or? for personal carry protectio

[duke21]

i had a previous thread regarding the kel-tec and charter arms guns,  i have been back to the dealers shop and shot a few of these guns to see what i thought and help clear the muddy water.   I had hoped the Kel-tec 9 mm would have been more the size of the 32 or 380, so it was a bit larger than i was expecting.   I liked the white dot sites a lot,  and it handles  and balances pretty good.   The mag is easy to release and workmanship seemed ok.   When i shot the gun at 15 yards i consistently hit about a foot low, standing with two hands on the gun, no bench rest or anytihing.  had no jambs or other problems,  due to the light weight , the gun is a bit jumpy though.   i then tried the Makarov p-64.   Now keep in mind , my blood runs red, white, and blue, and for me to consider  a communist block gun is rare.   but when i shot this thing  i was quite impressed .  the sights are kinda small and black and not easy to see at first , but the gun shot very smooth, kicked less than the keltec , and the trigger pull was pretty light.  again shooting standing at 15 yards ,i very quicly got the gun within inches of the bullsyes fairly conssitenty just a few inches low.   the mag was a pain to load and relesing the mag took getting used to, but if done two handed it worked well.   the gun seems solid and well made.    I shot the charter 38 snubby again and its performance was simialar to the makarov.   the big problem i have, is that this gun is going to be on me when i work repairing machines etc. and need something that is not hanging on me in great big holster.  i cant were jackets and coats all the time so conceal is an issue.   i can put the kel tec and the makarov in my front pocket almost as easy as my phonenix  hp 22   which suties me fine.   the charters biggest issue is that i just dont know how to where it comfortably.   I have thought about special ordering a keltec 32 or 380 but am on limited funds and cannot afford mistakes.   300 dollars on this venture is really stretching me thin,  got any ideas?   I am desperate to get this ordeal over with.


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[PA-Joe]

Another option is a HUngarian PA-63 9x18 or a real bulgarian makarov!

[rockbilly]

I have had experience with most all of the Makarov models, I found all of them to be quality made guns for the price.  I am not wild about the 9x18 cartridge for personal defense, but if it were all I could afford I wouldn't hesitate to slip a Makarov in my pocket.  Several companys have ammo on the market that makes the makarov an effective weapon at close range. :wink:

[Old Griz]

:cb2: The 9x18 Makarov is like carrying a .38 Special. More power than a .380, but not as much as a 9mm. Standard issue for the Russian military, a lot of guys experienced it first hand in Nam. I've carried one with me for years. Mine is an East German Mak, and it is extremely accurate with its fixed barrel. It has a sharp snap to it, but is very manageable. I had to polish the feed ramp for it to feed hollow points smoothly. It also has second strike capability. (The Russians would use .380 ammo if out of 9x18, and it sometimes requires a second hit. Not as accurate with the .380 stuff, however. The 9x18 bullet has a diameter of .364, and the 380/9mm is .355.)

I would not like to carry it, or the Kel-Tek 9mm in my pocket. I carry it usually in a fanny pack or belly band. If dressed up, in a shoulder rig. (However, if I'm usually that dressed up and wearing a coat, I'll just slip my M19 on my belt.) If going the pocket pistol route, I'd suggest the Kel-Tek .380. The grip won't be sticking out of your pocket if you bend over. I wouldn't go any smaller than that, caliber-wise however. Just keep shooting until the threat is nullified!

If you want to know more about Maks, checkout
www.gunboards.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3
and
www.makarov.com

Good luck!

[aaronrkelly]

In the size/price your looking I would seriously consider the Bersa Thunder in .380

Mine shoots like a dream.  No failures, no issues and its got adjustable sights.

The price was $199 NIB from my local shop.

[jgalar]

Any concealed wearpon is going to be a compromise especially for what you want to it to do and the price range you have set. Any of the all steel guns will be more pleasant to shoot than the polymer guns, but they will weigh much more. A heavy caliber is much better for defensive shooting, but will be bulkier and kick more. You have to weigh the pros and cons of each and make the decision on what will serve your needs.

From reading your posts, if I were in your shoes I would try finding a Kel-tec P3AT 380 to handle before making a purchase. The gun is around 12 ozs loaded, very small and easy to conceal and in the low end of serious defensive power. The gun and sights aren't designed for long range shooting, but from what you describe as your needs you need a gun for close range anyway.

[Savage]

Might want to look at the P-11 or the soon to appear PF-9. Both are in 9mm, light, and fit in your price range.
Savage

[Savage]

Woops, sorry Duke! I just reread your initial post. If you find the recoil of the P-11 excessive the PF-9 will be more problematic. It is closer to the P-3AT is size. Some people say the recoil of the P-3AT has more recoil than the P-11. For a first carry gun I would go with the P-11, of the ones mentioned.
Good Luck!
Savage

[greenjeans]

I have the Kel-Tec P-11, P3AT, and the Bersa Thunder .380. The Bersa and the P-11 are almost identical in size. I use the same Fobus paddle holster for both. They weigh close to the same, but the Bersa is easier to shoot in the .380 caliber. Neither, in my opinion, is a pocket pistol unless you have awfully big pockets. The Bersa took a little breaking in, the Kel-Tek P-11 has been totally reliable out of the box. Both are good guns.

The P3AT Kel-Tec has been totally reliable since the first three or four magazines, both with ball type ammo and hollowpoints. You forget that it is in your pocket. Not a gun you want to shoot all day at the range, but one you can carry anywhere. I take it when everything else is just too big. It is a 6 ounce gun empty, so there is not much there to help with recoil. Don't know if this has been much help, but I do own and shoot all to the above. Don't plan to get rid of any fo them.

[Rex B]

I have a P32 and a P11.   And a P64
The P11 with the pinky estension on the magaxine fits my hands better than any other handgun I own.
It's just about perfect.
The P32 is too small to compare on grip. It's a drop it ont he pocket gun.

I seriously looked at a Bersa, but I found that spur on the back of the grip very uncomfortable, even without firing it. Looked to be well-made, but the fit was a no-go.  I even considered machining off the spur.

For the money, it's hard to beat the P64. All steel, fixed barrel, about the size of the P11, maybe a little thinner. I really like the safety/decocker. Wish all my SAs had that.   The biggest negative is those slippery plastic grips, but there's a guy making gorgeous wood replacements to order for $25.  Some complain about the long, hard trigger pull on DA (first shot).  It's definitely a high-force pull, but in a pocket gun that may not be all bad.   But if you don't like it, you can change a spring or two and have a new gun for less than $10.

Having said that, I'm about to sell mine. But I'll probably wind up with another.