opinions needed on youth b.p. questions please look

[jbtazgrabber]

im needing some input on a youth black powder gun .ok maybe not the gun but what is the min powder to shoot at a 80 lb doe with???what bullets will expand at min. speeds???/is pistol powder better since less barrel length will be used??/?will it be more kick or less with pistol powder...???the gun has a 18 in. barrel with open sights .the deer will be under 30 yards max......probably 30 feet...i will be there to back him up if need be...i perfer sabots.....how about some pistol shooters helping me out along with anyone else please???/i got some pretty good ideas but if someones already been down this road i would sure like to here from you......

[sabotmaker]

What  caliber is the rifle?

My youngest son started with a 54 Knight MK-85. He used 60 grains of FF black powder, 185 grain Hornady 451 diameter hollow point in a red 54 x 45 sabot. He harvested a number of deer with this very light recoil load. All deer were within 60 yards and the combination did a great job. If the gun you have is  a 50 caliber 50 grains of powder will produce about the same velocity as 60 grains in a 54 with the above combination. Sabot  for 50 cal is  black 50 X 45.

Drive this same bullet with 80 or 90 grains of powder and you won't get good penetration. This bullet is desiged to perform at 45 ACP velocities.

My 11 y.o. grand daughter will be using a 50 caliber 20 inch barrelled Knight MK-85 this fall for her first muzzleloading deer hunting. Keep the range below 75 yards and the powder charges light and you will not be disappoited with terminal performance.

[eskimo36]

I have killed in the past two 135 class Oklahoma bucks with a 50 cal RB gun using 55 grains of FFF. Neither buck went more than 50 yards. This gun shoots small cloverleafs at 50 yards with this load. My boys at ages 6-10 have shot it many times off of crossed sticks with no ill effects. Soft lead or thin jacketed pistol bullets at 1000+ FPS at close range will work for you and your son with minimum recoil.

[jbtazgrabber]

thats what i was thinking ill run some 451 into the crony with rs pryro and p to see how much differance thier is in recoil........thank olot that helps .........i got some 451 black sabot i just need the bullets i ll try the 185 gr........all i had was 250 gr.....i dont get much time it the range so this will help us alot........thanks again....jb

[gt2003]

If its a .50 caliber, try 80 grains of 777 powder and a 220 grain precision rifle dead center bullet.  The recoil is not too bad and the bullets (all lead) expand extremely well.  I live in Eastern Oklahoma and shoot close distances while muzzleloading (usually 50 yds or less).  I used to shoot a 300 grain hornady XTP bullet and 90 grains of pyrodex rs.  Extremely accurate but the bullet woudln't expand, there was no blood trail and I lost 3 deer with it.  I got advice on the realtree forums, switched to the precision rifle bullet and will never go back.  They are INCREDIBLE. Here is the photobucket link to the 2 recovered bullets, the one on the left was shot with 100 grains of pyrodex rs at about 20 yds, the one on the right was shot with 80 grains of 777 powder at about 50 yds   http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/gt2003/precisionrifle220graindeadcenters.jpg .   Both did the job quickly.  If you have any questions, just ask.  Good luck, Greg