HELP with sighting in TC Encore 300 mag

[9point]

I am trying to get a good confident zero with a new 300 Win Mag barrel and am having a few problems.  Here is what I did:  I started off using winchester Power Point 180gr. ammo and after about 12 shots had a nice 2" group at 100 yards.  Please remember this; I am new to high powered rifles so a 2" group is good for me.  Feeling good about where my gun was hitting I decided to switch to a different ammo that I will be hunting with in AK next month: Winchester Supreme Elite XP3 180 grain.  The first two bullets hit 6" low dead center so I adjusted the scope and dialed it in to the bulls eye.  Q. Why would faster ammo of the same grain hit lower?

Three days later back at the range and shooting the XP3's again and my bullet totally missed the target for the first 3 shots before it starts hitting back close to where it was two days prior.  The barrel was cleaned with Hoppes cleaner, a bronze brush, and then dry patched following each session at the range.  TC Arms, Inc informed me that their barrels need to be fouled inorder to get good accuracy.  I am having a hard time believing this since serving 22 years in the Army I have always believed a clean weapon is an accurate weapon.

Can someone please shed some light on the problems I am having?  I have 3 weeks until my moose hunt and I do not feel warm and fuzzy about this rifle.  Thanks!!

[9point]

c'mon ya'll, is anyone out there???

[Grumulkin]

1.  Pick whichever brand of loads shoot the best in your gun with an appropirate bullet (180 grains sounds good)  Two inch groups are acceptable for your purposes.

2.  You can expect different loads (i.e., brands) to have different point of impacts.  There are many variables that determine whether one loads shoots higher or lower than another.  It's logical to think that a faster bullet will hit higher but that isn't necessarily so.

3.  It is normal for a clean barrel to shoot higher than a dirty one.  Sometimes the difference is huge.  Don't take your freshly cleaned gun hunting and expect it to shoot the same place at the range.  It's OK to shoot a few rounds through the gun (5 should be enough) and then take it hunting without cleaning it.  I have a couple of Encore barrels which I treasure that shoot about the same place hot or cold, clean or dirty but this isn't the usual case.

4.  See how your gun shoots from a cold barrel.  Number the shots for say 5 shots or so and see if the point of impact changes.  Sometimes the first shot from a cold barrel will consistently hit significantly differently from the rest of them.  In fact, I have a .30/06 Encore barrel I recently sent back to T/C because of this problem.  The first shot from it is always 2 inches or so high.  Then it settles down to 1 to 1.5 inch groups (depending on the bullet I'm shooting).

[kudzu]

9point, I don't have an encore(do have a pro hunter coming). However most every bullet will have a differant POI. As for the clean barrel, I don't do anything to my centerfires, except runa bore snake thru her, as long as accuracy is good. Will give a good cleaning after groups start to enlarge. Centerfires are like muzzleloaders IMO, that the first CLEAN SHOT is fairlly unpredictable and then after a couple of fouling shots they will come in. JMO, but I would foul her a few shots then sight in and go hunting. After you learn the rifle you will know about how many shots that you are good for. Example, my savage MLII muzzleloader(shoot reg. smokless powder), the first shot is anybody's guess. shot 2 gets close to zero and shots 3-about 12 are real good and then to twenty are so so. after twenty shots it's time to start over. Have several centerfires the same way. Like I said this is JMHO but foul her, sight her in and GO HUNTING. Hope this helps. If not remember, MOOSE ARE BIG TARGETS

Good Luck, DM

[Redhawk1]

I am trying to get a good confident zero with a new 300 Win Mag barrel and am having a few problems.  Here is what I did:  I started off using winchester Power Point 180gr. ammo and after about 12 shots had a nice 2" group at 100 yards.  Please remember this; I am new to high powered rifles so a 2" group is good for me.  Feeling good about where my gun was hitting I decided to switch to a different ammo that I will be hunting with in AK next month: Winchester Supreme Elite XP3 180 grain.  The first two bullets hit 6" low dead center so I adjusted the scope and dialed it in to the bulls eye.  Q. Why would faster ammo of the same grain hit lower?

Three days later back at the range and shooting the XP3's again and my bullet totally missed the target for the first 3 shots before it starts hitting back close to where it was two days prior.  The barrel was cleaned with Hoppes cleaner, a bronze brush, and then dry patched following each session at the range.  TC Arms, Inc informed me that their barrels need to be fouled inorder to get good accuracy.  I am having a hard time believing this since serving 22 years in the Army I have always believed a clean weapon is an accurate weapon.

Can someone please shed some light on the problems I am having?  I have 3 weeks until my moose hunt and I do not feel warm and fuzzy about this rifle.  Thanks!!

Different ammo with different bullets will hit in different places, pick one and stick with it. Once you get your gun sighted in and have consistent groups , don't clean your gun before a hunt, take it fouled. You point of impact will remain the same. Don't get discouraged it will all come together. Good luck on your Moose hunt. 

[9point]

Thanks for all of the insight and advice.  I have two more boxes of ammo coming from the dealer soon and after I go to the range and work out some more kinks I am going to set up a target in the back yard and shoot it one time everynight after work until I leave for Alaska.  I have taken this approach with bow hunting and tried to shoot a couple of arrows everyday.  Hopefully it will help build my confidence with the rifle.

[southern utah]

9point, add a little more info. let us know what you are using for scope, base and rings. are you consistant in where you rest the forearm when shooting. I am sure you a not a novice but some things just work better than others. I have a Encore with 26" in 300 win mag. shoots180 gr failsafes  consistant. I went to burris dual doveail base with the signiture rings, leupold scoope real solid. on other barrels I use the Virgin Valley stainles weaver style steel  base and Warne QD rings also has worked excelent. Started to use a few Weavers in V10 and grand Slam.

[9point]

So. Utah:  The encore is scoped up with a 3.5x10 VXIII and Leupold QR base and rings.  I have a VXI on my muzzle loader barrel and liked it so I thought I would upgrade for the 300 Win.  As you can see, I didn't just buy this setup for one hunting trip.  With regards to consistency on where I rest the forearm, I could be more consistent and I will work on that my next trip to the range.  I know and understand rifles but I live in IL and have not had much opportunity to hunt with rifles.  I have two Remington 742s in 30-06 and 243 that my dad gave meand I did have a 22 Hornet barrel for the encore with a 4x12 swift but I sold it to help fund the 300.  The rest of my experience has been with an M-16, M-9, M-60, etc in the Army.  So I honestly think most of my problem is with anticipated recoil and/or flinching. 

[PA-Joe]

Also, what range are you shooting 50/100/200?

It was most likely due to the colder and cleaner barrel.

[9point]

Also, what range are you shooting 50/100/200?

It was most likely due to the colder and cleaner barrel.

100 and just started on the 200.

[flintlock]

Faster bullets usually hit the target lower because they get out of the barrel faster...This give less time for recoil to take effect....

[southern utah]

9point, I use the same scope on mine.  I have  a few thoughts. You have the QD rings so this should be easy . Remove the scope and rings. Remove the base and try one screw at a time to see it they tighten the the base to barrel. I have had some screws to long and when the mounting screws were completely tighten the base was still lose enough to move. I  have my forearm mounted to barrel via a hanger bar system to float the barrel. see my forearms at  http://Banned Site/TC/index.htm   under tech stuff. those are my 4 pictures but not my sight. Others have made shims to fit between forarm and barrel at srews. Also small pillers have be inleted into forearm to  do the same. Last would be to get you a sissy pad  (chunk of foam rubber will do) and use it at the bench to absorb recoil on your shoulder. Helps get rid of the flinch. When I sight in my rifles I alway fire one fooler round after cleaning then shoot for accuracy. my 2 cents

[9point]

 I have been shooting one shot everyday after work at 100 yards and the bullet placement is really improving.  Since I don't have a shooting bench at my house I have been shooting off of a stnoey point shooting stick that I am planning to take with me on the hunt.  After I get 4-5 holes in the target I will make an adjustment to the scope if necessary.