Close The Borders Now!

[Brett]

All of the manual labor and service jobs that it would appear that only illegal aliens are capable of doing according to Swampman are exactly the kinds of jobs that my friends and I did growing up.  When we were 14 or 15 we did yard work, mowed lawns, washed cars, shovelled snow, etc. around the neighborhood.  When we got drivers licences we found summer jobs painting houses, building decks, etc. and during the school year many of us had after school jobs stocking shelves at grocery stores, parts stores, etc.  I worked these type jobs all threw college.  My sister worked on the line at a frozen food packaging plant while going to college.  My wife and her two sisters all worked waiting tables and or behind the counters of fast food joints from the time they were seniors in high school until they graduated college. What are our college kids doing today?  Where are they getting there spending money or tuition money from?  Am I that far behind the times that I am mistaken in thinking that these kinds of jobs are not only acceptable for our young people but may actually be beneficial to them? Have our youth become too soft or too "good" to perform a decent days labor for a pay check?  By the way, I am still capable of mowing my own dang lawn (all 2 acres of it) and when my daughter is old enough to operate the lawn tractor she will inherit the job.

Furthermore the real issue here is not racism it is patriotism.  We are selling ourselves out in this country and if we don't turn the tide soon it no longer will be our country. 

[Dee]

AND ALL GOD'S CHILDREN SAID; AMENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Brett]

"exactly the kinds of jobs that my friends and I did growing up."

This is 2006.   Kids do not work period......

Why the heck don't they?  I'll tell you why, because we've spoiled them rotten their whole lives and give them everything they want so they don't have to work.  You don't think that we wanted to pump gas, and paint houses when we were kids do you.  No, but we wanted to own our own cars and have some cash to put gas in them so we could take our girl to the movies when we had a night off.  And back when I was growing up our parents either could not afford give us everything we wanted or were smart enough to let us learn the value of hard work.  Now we have a bunch of lazy good for nothing teens and we have to hire illegal aliens to mow our lawns and paint our houses.   

[Dee]

I think history has shown, that you can't get a people to stand up, until they're all the way down. That's when they finally figure it out. Our biggest problem as a nation is we call people friends that are not. When Tony Blair steps down in a few months we in reality won't have ANY friends. Why is that? Could it be that other countries are tired of our eliteist goverment. We took down Manual Noreaga and Sadam Hussien but, does anyone remember that both of these men trained as the goverments guests at the SCHOOL OF THE AMERICAS at Ft. Benning, Georgia, AND we helped get them into power. Revolution and change have always started from within a country, and we as a nation have ignored that historical fact, and conducted nation building programs around the world since World War II. Since that war we have not won ONE SINGLE WAR. A few scirmishes here and there but, not one war. Our country, our children, our reputation as a nation, is what it is because we have let someone else take care of our business, and we never check to see if they're doing a good job. Assured success is HANDS ON, and we aren't.

[magooch]

Dee, I guess it depends on your definition of "war".  If I remember correctly, we gave Iraq a pretty good ass whippin in the Gulf War.  And the actual war part of this current Iraq situation didn't turn out so well for the Iraqi military either.

Call it a skirmish if you like, but Serbia called uncle pretty fast when Bubba was busy bombing the Chinese embassy there.

Anyway, you say this country has no friends.  I think you need to ask Canada, Australia, Poland, Japan, South Korea, Italy, Columbia, Chile, Israel, Kuwait, and on and on.  Personally I couldn't care less if this country, or that country doesn't consider us a friend; what you can count on is they'll be friendly enough when they need our help.

Back to the original theme of this thread:  Most of us would like to see the borders secured; presumably by some act of Congress.  As if some new law has to be enacted.  It is already illegal to cross our borders without going through a proper checkpoint.  I is already illegal to be in this country without the proper documents.  So what are we really talking about? 

Obviously, there isn't going to be an effective wall built all the way across our southern border and for sure not on our northern border.  And I don't think we could ever have enough border guards to do the job.  So where does that leave us? 

We must enforce the laws that are already there.  Hiring illegals must not be tolerated.  Allowing illegals to take advantage of our medical system, must be stopped.  No illegal kids in our schools.  In the short term, it might be necessary to put troops and or armed volunteers on the southern border.  Yeah, wait for that to happen.

[Dee]

That ass kickin you spoke of concerning the Gulf War. Didn't that start almost 15 years ago? Yes I believe it did. Weren't the military ordered out before they finished? Yes, I believe they were. I have a son over there now. He says they are still fighting. All those heavy hitter firiends you named. He hasn't seen any of them over there. In fact I believe Canada is against that war aren't they? In fact Canada is against all YOUR RIGHTS. You know gun owner ship, freedom of speech, that sorta thing. All those other FRIENDS you mentioned either have no one over there or just a curtisy couple of hundred men. Oh, yea, Didn't Italy pull all their troups out last year. And I don't remember Japan sending any at all. Please!!!!!! You totally missed my point. I support my son and my older now disabled son, and all the armed services.  It's the nation building goverment I have very little use for. I'll tell you what I call winning a war. Finishing it as quickly and decisively as possible. And keeping the politicians out of it.

[jimster]

I hope things don't continue the way they are. I hold no loyalty to any party, and the Republicans have nothing to do with my gun rights, I had those rights through several administrations. If any States do not have these rights, the people just aren't getting mad enough to vote EVERYBODY out. So be it.
Closing the borders....anyone willing to step up to the plate and close them off, will have the vote of the majority of Americans, you can bet on it. If the Republican party does not step up to the plate they do not deserve votes.
I do not think losing illegal people in this country will hurt a thing....I'm sure we'll all find a way to get buy just fine.
My son just got back from basic training August 18th, he's going to do his senior year and leave for the other training after that, I have no idea where they will send him after that. But I'm proud he went to basic at age 17, and I'm proud of all the people in the military, bless all your sons and daughters, tell them we all say thanks. I know the way you all feel as parents and relatives...you are not alone, we have a bond. Just wanted you all to know that I think about your families too.

Dee...you are correct...the only way to win a war is with absolute overwheling force right away, to the point where people cringe at the horror of it all. Someday when it gets bad enough, we'll have to do it anyways...tired of dragging our feet here.

[powderman]

I believe it was May the 5th when the mexicans said they were on strike for a day. We went out to eat at the Golden Corral. After our meal I asked for the mgr. I told her that for the first time in 5 trips that I'd finally gotten a decent piece of steak. I told her that I always ask for medium, and get whatever the mexican drops on my plate, either tough and dried out, or still moving. I said, you finally had an American there who speaks ENGLISH. The last time I was there and asked where the  mushrooms were, all I got was yabba dabba doooooo. I told her that I hoped they stayed on strike. The last trip was the same, yabba dabba doo. I find it personally offensive that the illegals are referred to as undocumented workers, or immigrants, THEY AREN'T. They are invaders, criminals. Send their butts packing back to mexico. I welcome legal IMMIGRANTS. Those who follow the rules, and become real Americans. For most of them, even the legals, they have no desire to be Americans. They want only the perks of America. They want to set up their own little tijuanas and go yabba dabba doo all day. If they refuse to Americanize, learn our customs, obey our laws, and speak ENGLISH, ship their butts home. There is NO REASON to have spanish radio stations, or print anything here but english. This is America, we speak ENGLISH here. Learn it, speak it, or GET OUT, you are not welcome here. POWDERMAN. 

[Swampman]

"I'm sure we'll all find a way to get buy just fine."

Yep, it's called massive inflation.  We'll pay it, complain bitterly, and blame others for it.  If we would bother to be informed on the subject, that would be a very good thing.

You can thank the Republicans for the fact that you still posses firearms.  They are the only reason you still do.  Don't think for a second that if the Demon-Cats get control, that you will still have them.  If I feel there is a strong chance Hillary will get elected I'll start selling off my stuff to cut my losses.

As a Christian and a gun owner, I could never vote for a Democrat.

[magooch]

That ass kickin you spoke of concerning the Gulf War. Didn't that start almost 15 years ago? Yes I believe it did. Weren't the military ordered out before they finished? Yes, I believe they were. I have a son over there now. He says they are still fighting. All those heavy hitter firiends you named. He hasn't seen any of them over there. In fact I believe Canada is against that war aren't they? In fact Canada is against all YOUR RIGHTS. You know gun owner ship, freedom of speech, that sorta thing. All those other FRIENDS you mentioned either have no one over there or just a curtisy couple of hundred men. Oh, yea, Didn't Italy pull all their troups out last year. And I don't remember Japan sending any at all. Please!!!!!! You totally missed my point. I support my son and my older now disabled son, and all the armed services.  It's the nation building goverment I have very little use for. I'll tell you what I call winning a war. Finishing it as quickly and decisively as possible. And keeping the politicians out of it.

Well Dee, I guess I should have said, it depends upon what your definition is of when a war starts and when it is over.  Put that aside.  I also didn't understand that you meant in order for a country to be a friend, they have to join us in any and all of our foreign problems.

However, I totally agree that U.S. policy should be that when we enter into a conflict, it will be swift, devastating and final.  That of course means that the first weapon of choice would be nukes.  This probably wouldn't garner us many friends right away, but we probably wouldn't have many enemies either.

And Swampman, you couldn't be more correct that we can thank at least some of the Republicans for our retention of the right to bear arms.  We are always just one election away from losing that right and I fear that 2008 will be extremely critical in that regard.  The precursor is coming up in just a few days; it could be bad.

[WylieKy]

We need to go back to "Walk softly and carry a big stick", and we need to use the big stick as a pitching wedge and pitch the illegals back over the Rio Grande, the Atlantic, the Pacific,the Caribbean or the Artic!  Our country needs a good house cleaning, and I have the "Honey-do list."

1. Can the electoral college.
This will eliminate the obscene power imbalance of the Coasts, both West and East. 

2. Vote in some good old Americans.
We need people that want what is right for America.  Not the Democratic Party, not the Rebublican Party, not any interest other than The United States of America.

3.Secure all borders, both physically and administrativly.  Lets go with ditches and fences to start, upgrade to walls as soon as possible.  Any adult wanting to join our country must speak English, be disease free, and have and education or trade that will help to improve our country.  This will keep out the criminals, beggars, and those unworthy of The United States of America.

4. Locate and deport any and all illegal aliens.  If they have a child that is a citizen, give them the choice of abandoning their child to the system or taking the child with them and voiding their citizenship.

5. Abandon the world for a few years.  Focus on keeping the US fed and independant.  Let other countries determine their own fate, and establish their own governments and ways of living. If those governments or ways of living threaten our own, turn them into a fine rubble and let them rebuild.  They will eventually get it right.   Right now we are feeding people whos existance consits of only turning food into poop and making other mouths to be fed.  This may seem cruel to some, but the problem will never be corrected so long as we are enableing them to live that lifestyle.

This is a beginning.

WylieKy

[Swampman]

"We need people that want what is right for America."

That would be the Rebublican Party

The Socialist Demokrats are bad for freedom and America.

America is not an island.  Virtually everything we use is made in another country.  We don't really produce anything except services.  70+ percent of what Walmart sells is not made in the USA.  When we eliminate our only source of reasonably priced reliable labor, that will go to 95%.  Paranoia will destroy ya!

[Brett]

Virtually everything we use is made in another country.  We don't really produce anything except services.  70+ percent of what Walmart sells is not made in the USA.

Well you are correct there and we are sending more and more service jobs overseas too.  Call 'Silly Bank' about a question on your credit card statement and you will be talking to someone in India.  Same for many computer and electronic companies, their tech. reps are overseas in places like India and Pakistan. And I blame our government for allowing it, both Republicans and Democrats. The government has established quotas of how many minorities a company must hire, how about they set quotas of how many American citizens they must hire. Any reasonable government sets limits on it's dependency on foriegn goods and services. It's only common sense to not allow yourself to become totally dependent on outsiders.  To do so is to risk loosing your country. 

Swampman, you keep telling us we need this cheap, illegal foreign labor to keep our economy going. I say show us the proof, where is the documentation, where are the studies proving that we must become slaves to illegal foreign labor?  You say our kids won't work, I say they can't find work because all the service and manual labor jobs are taken by non tax paying, cheap foreign labor. I say who cares if a million small businesses who are operating illegally with illegal foreign labor are put out of business. Legitimate, tax paying businesses employing our own citizens will step in to fill the void.  Our lawns will still get mowed and our fruit will still get picked and our homes will still get built one way or another. 

The entire Hispanic labor force supposedly went out on strike this past May 5th.  Did Walll Street shut down? Did the marked even hiccup? Did you or anyone else on this board experience any major hardships?  Did most of you even notice?  I didn't.   

For every negative you have cited that would take place if we eliminated illegal foriegn labor I or someone on else has countered with at least one, often several, positives to counter it.

Swampman you just keep saying the same thing over and over "we need cheap illegal foriegn labor or we will suffer without it" but you have shown us no proof.     

[Swampman]

You are living in a dream world.  You are going to cut off your nose to spite your face.  10 precent of all illegals went on strike for one day.  None of the undocumented workers I know went on strike.  Thry put in 14 hours for $15.00 an hour.  The Gulf Coast needs them bad.  Send them our way if you don't like dark skinned folks that are different than you.

There is no point in continuing this discussion.  I'm done!

[nomosendero]

Good, maybe now we can get back on the subject!!!!!!! 

[Brett]

Swampman,

I am not talking about Hispanics, Cubans, Canadians, Asian Indians or any other minority who go threw the proper channels to become legal US citizens and work for honest businesses and pay taxes. As I've said before racism has nothing to do with my position on this subject. They are illegally living and working in this country.  What part of Illegally do you not understand. Do you not understand that everything from our taxes to auto insurance to medical care cost us more because of illegal workers?  Do you not see that our high school and college kids can not find work because of these illegal workers?  Many of these illegal workers send most of their pay to their families living back home removing that money from our economy.  Who is living in a dream world here? I am a small business owner in the construction trades and I have seen what goes on first hand. 

Swampman, you are such a strong advocate of the illegal workers it makes one wonder if you are somehow profiting from them yourself.
Or is it possible that you are one yourself? 





 

[Dee]

Easy there Brett. I too am in construction. I buy house and do COMPLETE remodels and put them back out to people who cannot afford a new one but, want a nice home. Illegal aliens work for nearly nothing and bigger companies come in, buy these same type houses, hire illegals to do a half-ass job and put them back out. As has been said, over half their salary goes back to Mexico, and into their economy. Why do you think Fox helps them cross the border. He knows they will bring the wealth back to Mexico.

[992]

When is everbody going to learn that the illegals don't want to become Americans,if they were to become Americans,then they would be in the same shape that WE are!!!
As illegals they can have it all and not have to pay for it
Maybe someday we will all see the writing on the wall,if we still have a wall left to see.

992

[Dee]

Excellent point!

[Swampman]

I don't want them to become Americans.  The President doesn't want them to become Americans.  We need people that want to work.

[Dee]

Swampman, please tell us all that your just puttin us on. He wants to give them amnasty and let them apply and become Americans. He want's to allow them in to the social security program (some already are), and on and on. It's been on the news for months. It's been before Congress, and so on. Surely you couldn't have missed all that. Haven't you noticed that your the only one on this thread, that doesn't seem to be aware of what everyone else is talking about on the thread? All of these guys are loyal Americans, just like you, but, you seem to be the only leming .

[Swampman]

I'm the only one on this thread that's thinking about what is good for America, not just what is good for me.

[Dee]

Swampman,
I think your a good guy but, your backing a guy that got on NATIONAL TV "TWICE" and said that the Christian and the Muslim worship the same god. As a Christian you know that Allah had no son. So we do not worship the same god. When you go to bed at night you lock your doors to keep bad guys out. When you leave for work, you lock your door to keep bad guys out. These people are coming into our country ILLEGALLY! That's ILLEGAL, with an I. They are draining our social services nationally. In Texas were we live, our insurance for medical, and vehicle has skyrocketed. Hospitals in Texas are CLOSING because of the ILLEGALs using them for free and the hospitals can bear the financial strain. My medical for myself and my wife jumped $625.00 a quarter this month, and we have used it once in 12 years for an emergency room visit. Hospitals are charging insurance companies outrageous fees trying to off set the free service to ILLEGALS. When my Father was in E.R. for a heart attack, he was parked in the hall waiting to see a doctor, because the E.R. rooms were full of ILLEGALS whom had brought their children in for FREE TREATMENT for things like the common cold. One couple (ILLEGALS) brought their 6 week old baby for a SIX WEEK CHECKUP. It was 2:30 in the morning. But it was free. They don't have doctors, because they have learned, that they can't be turned away at an E.R. Come on Swampman. Use your head.

[rockbilly]

As I have always said, Calling an illegal alien an undocumented worker is kind of like calling a house burglar an uninvited house guest……..

It's funny, most of the legal Mexicans I am in contact with are as opposed to the illegals as I am.  They have felt the crunch from being underbid on jobs and being put out of work by some illegal that will work cheaper.  There are a few bleeding hearts like Swampman that can't see the forest for the trees, and think they are an asset to America.  Likely I won't be here to see, but in the long run they will ruin America as we know it, and degrade this country to that of a third world nation like the one they are running away from.

You know it is a sad state of affairs when the President of a country prints pamplets, and provides training so his people can gain entry into another country illegally.  The illegals working in America provide the 2nd greratest source of income for Mexico.  The money they earn is often not taxed, the majority is sent to family back in Mexico, so we don't see any advantage from the money being spent here.

Another issue, if we allow them to stay, provide amensty, and eventually citzenship, then how many dependents left in Mexico can we expect to be granted entry.  Since the majority of the eleven million illegals are men, we can expect there are approximately 35 million dependents left in the home country (wife and children).  The impact on our health system alone would be crushing. 

The illegal sitution has to be checked now or this country is doomed to become another third world country.  What then, who will take over.  And Swampman, when Mexico takes over, WIll you be able to keep your guns? 

[Dee]

I've vented so much on this topic I'm depressing myself.

[Brett]

Yep, It doesn't appear that Swampman is ready to take off his rose colored glasses so we might as well give up trying. I think it was Mark Twain that said "Don't bother trying to teach a pig to sing, you will only waste your time and annoy the pig."