.357 mag, 200gr lil' gun data needed

[baranjhn]

Hello,

Even though I've been reloading for years, I've never worked up a load before. I've always used printed data.

Anyway, I'm looking for a Hodgdon Lil' Gun load for a 200gr. cast bullet in my .357 rifle.

Hodgdon's web site lists this: LIL'GUN 15.0, 1422 fps,  34,500 CUP- for a 180 jacketed bullet.

Could I use this data, reduced by 10%, to start with, or should it be reduced farther to start?

Thanks

John

[Questor]

I wouldn't attempt it. I'd find a reliable source of real data, then use it. You might try the Cast Performance web site or similar web sites to find out what data they have available for their 200 grain 357s.

[Jerry Lester]

Like Questor said, you'd be better/safer to find the data you're looking for.

I've had quite a bit of experience in trying out different powders, and experimenting in "uncharted waters" with handloading, but it's not something I'd recommend to a person unless I knew they had the experience to watch for warning signs, and were extremely familiar with the temperment of the powders they were using. Things can turn out great for you, or become potentially dangerous really quick.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I'd beware of that route.  For one, you'll notice that as bullet weight goes up in the .357, that low-pressure advantage starts to disappear.

Number two, I've got considerable experience with Lil' Gun and I'll tell you I have seen evidence of high pressures - using the exact same load Hodgdon claims generates only 25,000CUP!  This load accounts for one of only two pierced primers I've ever experienced, and is the only load I used that I had to remove the cylinder to pound cases out of my Blackhawk.  I used, Win. Cases, Hornady 158 grain XTPs, WSPM primers, and 18.0 grains of Lil' Gun.  A recovered XTP had a hollow base after firing if that's any indication of high pressure.

I do also use Lil'Gun for a Lyman 195 grain cast roundnose - your starting point is greater than what I use as a max. 

Also be cautious with Lil'Gun in cold weather.  You might even go to the range, hop out of the truck, load up and fire on a 10-degree day and not have a problem.  But then a week later you can be hunting on a 35 degree day, get a shot towards the end of the day and get a stuck case.   The difference being that the ammo was warm in the truck on the range day, but when you hunted the ammo sat in a cold gun for hours. 

Be cautious with Lil'Gun in hot weather too.  I have a load for 13 grains of Lil'Gun and a 158 grain cast (moderate load) which becomes too weak in my Blackhawk on hot days, occasionally not even strong enough to push the bullet out the bore.  Never had a problem in the rifle though.

A more accepted way to navigate uncharted waters like this is to pick a powder of slightly faster burn rate and use the Max for that powder.  For example, H110 is supposedly faster burning than Lil' Gun.  You are more likely to find an H110 load for a 200 grain cast bullet somewhere.  Also if I am adapting a load recipe in which I am not using identical components I'll call the bullet manufacturer of the bullet in the recipe and get the length of the bullet.  With this data along with the OAL from the recipe I back calculat the actual seating depth.  Then I refigure the new OAL using my bullet length seated to the actual seating depth of the recipe.

For example Lyman has a 200 grain .357  bullet and a 195 grain .357 bullet.  Their manual has a recipe for the 200 grain bullet but not for the 195 grain bullet.  Because the shapes of the two bullets are very different, the lengths are drastically different, even though the wieght is similar.  If the load is created with the same OAL, one bullet can be much deeper than the other, giving much less room for powder.  1/8-inch lenght difference can make a big difference in small straightwalled cases full of mag powders.

[Questor]

http://www.castperformance.com/?uid=170&page=1656

That's the cast performance load data. Notice no Lil Gun data and an ominous "FA Revolvers Only" warning on their 200 grain load.

By the way, I like Cast Performance bullets and their load data is based on Win 296 only, to my knowledge.

[Mikey]

I have used a Winchester factory load of 12.4 gn of WW296 beneath every 200 gn slug I have fired from my 357s.  That includes some rn slugs for the 358 but mostly the 200 gn Colorado Cast Bullet Keith style swc.  All have been fired through my S&W 3.5" M28 and a 6" Colt Python.  None show the high pressure primer signs of the standard 158 gn cast 357s. 

The Winchester Loading data I have shows a 200 gn rn with 5.5 of 231 to give 1050'/sec at 42K CUP; 10.8 gn of 630 (obsolete) to give 1270'/sec at 40K CUP and 12.4 gn of 296 to give 1335'/sec at 35K CUP. 

I have used the 12.4 gn of 296 load exclusively in my 357s for years without any problems at all.  It slams on through Whitetail out past 60 yds (furthest shot I've made with it on a Whitetail) and has penetrated t&t two Black Bear boars out to about 30 yds.  Mikey.

[PaulS]

My 25th edition Hodgdon manaul lists six powders for a 200 gr lead bullet and only 2 for the 180 grain bullet. The difference between the maximum charge for the 180 and the starting load forthe 200 grain bullet is 20% - 30% depending on the powder.
that would make your starting load somewhere between 10.5 and 12.0 grains. This is extrapollated data and not at all trustworthy with such a small sample that does not include the powder in question. It might be that even a 30% reduction of your powder could produce dangerous pressure levels with a 200 grain bullet. When in doubt call the manufacturer or Sierra. The manufacturer will give you data if they have it or recommend it and Sierra is happy to help where they can - I have never had a problem they could not help with. Their information is always honest and accurate. I would not hesitate to ask them anything and accept their advice as fact. (at least as long as it was about reloading)

Hope this has helped,