Author Topic: i need help  (Read 1592 times)

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Offline timjberkley

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i need help
« on: October 05, 2006, 11:36:28 AM »
i am new to traditional archery. as in "wet behind the ears" brand new. i was wondering if anyone could help me out or point me in the right direction as to learning to shoot, proper draw technique....well basically everything. any books websites or personal tips would be GREATLY appreciated. i'm shooting a 50# Bear grizzly recurve. i feel that traditional archery is the ultimate challenge in hunting, and while i have no plans on going this season, i would like to be proficient enough to hunt by next october.  my email is timjberkley@hotmail.com if you want to send info that way.


thanks a bunch
tim

Offline Woodbutcher

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Re: i need help
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2006, 02:25:15 PM »
 timjberkley :
 I'll try, hope it helps. The first book by G. Fred Asbell ( I own it, he signed it, and I can't remember the title ) helped me alot, especially hand grip and position of drawing arm.
 Stump shooting is the greatest, hard wood arrows stand up to this the best.
 By the way, I like your choice of bow.
                                                                    Woodbutcher

Offline SingleFan

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Re: i need help
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2006, 10:06:08 AM »
Hi Bro-

You're gonna love traditional archery.  G Fred's book the gentleman referred to is called Instinctive Shooting, there is a 1st and 2nd volume.

Tell you I shot his method successfully for years.  Then I met Mike Fedora of Fedora custom bows.  He's a bit more of a Howard Hill style archer.  Hit his web site a www.fedoracustombows.com  and give Mike a call.  He'll open your eyes.  Since I switched shooting techniques I am significantly more accurate, and I've been taking game for years with a bow.  Learning what I did from Mike I hit quarters at 18 yards about every 4th shot.
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Offline Lee Robinson

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Re: i need help
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2006, 05:44:27 AM »
If you want to plink arrows and have fun, that is about all Asbell's methods are good for. If you are interested in becoming a really good shot, you will need a more practical approach and I would suggest picking up the book Become the Arrow by Byron Fergusson or a video by Gary Sentman http://www.moosejawbows.com

I was involved HEAVILY into archery for a number of years. I shot competitively...and one thing that you will consistenty see is two groups of people...

1. those that plink and snap shoot and some times hit well but too often do not...and...

2. then those that actually CONSISTENTLY hit what they are trying to hit.

I recommend learning how to do things right. For the record, I taught my nephew how to shoot...and his FIRST YEAR when he LISTENED and was willing to work on FOUNDATION of good archery and with good instruction he took 3rd place in a world champion archery competition with about 500 shooters total and about 6 months of shooting. Then, as time went on and after he learned more about the "romance" of instinctive snap like shooting he went his own way he became obsessed with Asbell's methods and snap shooting. It destroyed his ability. It started out as a small cancer until it consumed his form and habit by shooing automatically regardless of if he was on target or not...and he lacked control. You should never get into an automatic repetitive type of habit form of shooting. Only shoot when you KNOW you are ready and mentally confirming you are on target (even if this confirmation is only a 1/10th of a second you should know you are on before releasing). Eventually he dropped out all together except during hunting season where he limits his shooting to about 15-20 yards max...as one does not have to be much of an archer to hit an 6-8 inch target at 15 yards... I have seen similiar things time and time again. I went to Bob Wesley's school (former Howard Hill shooter world champion) of shooting the traditional bow and studied HH's method of indirect aiming...and without a doubt it this is the way to learn if you want to shoot well. I have some friends that can CONSISTENTLY HIT the kill zone (6" circle) out to about 50 yards with this method. One of which has one the local state shoot for about 5 or 6 years in a row...and some years winning BOTH the recurve AND longbow divisions. There are snap shooters and then there are archers.
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Offline timjberkley

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Re: i need help
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2006, 11:45:45 AM »
awesome, thanks a lot guys. went and got my bow restrung and it has made a big difference :P. it's hard to find info on traditional archery around here because everyone has compound fever... but in the words of tred barta i like to do things "the hard way". btw does anyone know anything about the 3 rivers archery "hunting arrows". also my bow has a 28 inch draw, so what arrow length/spine would you guys recommend? my bow once again is a 50# Fred Bear Grizzly.

thanks again for the info....

tim

Offline Lee Robinson

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Re: i need help
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2006, 03:23:15 AM »
If you like things "the hard way" you might enjoy the book "Hunting the Hardway" by Howard Hill. BTW, I have never owned a compound bow. Only traditional since day one. Over the last 15 years or so I would say Fred Asbell's propagandy of "romancing the bow" I call it of snap shooting has destroyed far more archers than it has helped...although many of his "snap shooter" followers are happy being very poor shots. He compares his style of shooting to that of a football quarterback throwing a football. The problem here though is quarterbacks don't have 6" accuracy. They have recievers that RUN to the ball and reach out and grab it. Our deer and our targets don't make us look good by helping us in such a way. VERY VERY FEW professional quarterbacks even have consistent 6-8" accuracy at 20 yards, much less kill zone accuracy at 30 yards...and forget about 40 yards. VERY FEW. And WE are not even professionals that shot for a living. So, we must accept reality and work with a foundation of good technique. I have never heard of any Asbell follower doing very well in any major competition...although there are many Hill style shooters that consistently place in the top. Both methods are able to shoot quick when they NEED TO, but shooting quick shouldn't be a habit or done all the time. VARIABLES, just as with hunting, need to be added into the practice routine so you are always mentally in charge even when this happens natually. Remember, practice DOES NOT make perfect. Practice only makes a habit. You have to practice RIGHT to make "perfect." On that note, let me quote Bob Wesley..."Perfect practice makes perfect." You want to shoot good? Practice right, and when you are no longer able to then it is time to put down the bow until you are able to get it right again.

Just this year at our hunting camp, a fellow young archer had a deer at about 50 yards from his location. He took a shot and missed. When he came back to camp to share his story, one of the more competent archers (the one I mentioned that wins most of our state shoots) corrected the young lad for even considering taking the shot describing all the possibilities of what could have gone wrong if the animal was wounded. The lad got defensive and said but you take shots like this all the time. Of course, the older fellow said something along the lines of, "I only take a shot when I know I am capable of making the shot. I have made some pretty long shots, but I have also passed up many at 30 yards when things were not right"

The young fellow didn't really understand and thought distance was the only factor and therefore remained defensive. So...the older fellow said he would show him what he was talking about. They went out to a turkey sized 3d target that they keep at the camp. He asked the boy to walk back and away from the target to about the distance he was from the deer when he missed his shot. The boy walked back to about 50 yards. He asked the boy to shoot at the turkey. The boy replied, "A deer is a lot bigger than a turkey." He asked the boy to take the shot anyway and the boy complied. The boys arrow hit the dirt about 20 yards in front of the turkey. Totally off and the boy didn't know where to shoot. The boy then asked the man to shoot and the man asked the boy if he wanted to wager on it. The "boy" was about 20 years old and was old enough to really learn the lesson so this was done to emphasize KNOWING your limitations. The boy didn't have any money to spare...so the man said, "I will give you one FREE LESSON, but learn it." The man took the shot and centered the turkey on his first shot. The man then took another arrow and shot again and placed an arrow inches away from the first arrow. The boy was amazed, but he accepted the lesson and learned what he needed to know. The man further explained how practice is important, form is important, and most importantly...a man needs to know his limitations. This man is a much better shooter than I am, but he and I share the same style of shooting of indirect aiming...he just practices more than I do as I have a hard time getting out to shoot as much as I should...but I too know my limitations. With more practice and good fundamentals, I am certain I could improve my shooting.

Before I recommend a given spine of arrow...I have a few questions.

1. Even though your "bow has a 28 draw" how far do YOU draw it? Also, how long are your arrows going to be cut? Both of these things need to be considered for the best match.

2. What type of bowstring material are you using? Dacron, fastflight, dynaflight, 450+?

3. What weight tip do you prefer?
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Offline Gurn

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Re: i need help
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2007, 09:47:53 PM »
Boys now ya got me ta thinkin.
What kind of shooting technique did Fred Bear use, or the guys famous for shooting aspirins out of the air? I just received a long bow for my birthday from my wife, and really don't know what style to learn. It's a Saxon American 50# @ 28"
64". I guess what I'm getting at is, I've seen rifle hunters set at the bench and shoot little bugger hole groups all day, but in a fast hunting situation, they ain't all that. Too much time aiming, critter is gone. Others I've seen sure couldn't win no shooting competition at the bench, but they can sure shoot the heck out of the kill zone on a  running deer.
HEAVE THE LEAD BOYS!

Offline jgalar

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Re: i need help
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2007, 02:05:56 AM »
The book "Instinctive Archery Insights" by Jay Kidwell was  the most helpful book in my collection.

Offline groundhawg

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Re: i need help
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2007, 05:53:35 AM »
as far as how to shoot videos go, ive enjoyed and learned from ricky welchs volume 2 video. ive heard that "become the arrow" by byron ferguson is good. both videos can be gotten from three rivers archery and or kustom king.
trad archery websites to check out.
tradgang.com
stickbow.com
tradtalk.com               all the trad info you could want can be found on these sites.

Offline gila_dog

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Re: i need help
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2007, 04:43:37 PM »
Getting the right arrows is pretty important. The first thing you need to do is find out what your draw length is. Your bow is rated at 50 lb @ 28". But that may or may not be your natural draw length. See "The Traditional Bowhunter's Handbook" by TJ Conrad. He shows you a way to determine draw length using a yardstick (lots of other good info there too). That's a good starting point. Or your local archery shop should be able to help you determine your draw length. Once you know that, you can figure the actual draw weight of your bow. A general rule of thumb is to add or subtract 3 lb of draw weight per inch above or below 28". For example, I draw 31". That's 3" more than 28". So I add 9 lb to whatever draw weight is specified on my bows. When I draw 31" on my 50 lb bow I'm actually drawing about 59 lb. If I only drew 25" I would be pulling 41 lb on a 50 lb bow.

Once you know your draw length you can get the right arrows by simply looking at a chart that shows what arrow goes with what draw length and draw weight. I personally like aluminum arrows. My arrows live a very rough life. They get shot at stumps, ant hills, cans, rabbits hiding in brush, they bounce off rocks and stumps that are a lot harder than they look, etc. It's true that if they get bent they stay bent. But they can take a lot more impact type punishment than carbon or wooden arrows.