Author Topic: Teachers with Guns? Madison Wisconsin..... (Read 3091 times)

WmRoy · « **on:** October 05, 2006, 01:07:44 PM »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15142930/?GT1=8618

What does everyone think??

nabob · « **Reply #1 on:** October 05, 2006, 02:15:30 PM »

Not something I would support. Cops get training all the time and recently, in a shootout in the closest city to me, fired their guns over 70 times, hitting the subject twice. I cannot imagine any of the parents that I know wanting to have armed teachers. This proposal seems like a complete over-reaction.

It would, of course, put a new meaning into "do your homework or else!"

WmRoy · « **Reply #2 on:** October 05, 2006, 02:22:31 PM »

Quote from: nabob on October 05, 2006, 02:15:30 PM

It would, of course, put a new meaning into "do your homework or else!"

Heavy C · « **Reply #3 on:** October 05, 2006, 02:44:24 PM »

Rather than arm the teachers I would opt for police officers. Arming the teachers is too extreme, but so would going for some kind of new ban on guns. I'm still waiting for someone to suggest that one.

Statistically, yes our schools are one of the safest places for our chlidgren, but when you consider our kids; one incident is too many. The way society is evolving and the apparent endless supply of wackos we have to be proactive now. To think this a rash of incidents and will soon blow over is irresponsible. Complacency is way too dangerous.

rockbilly · « **Reply #4 on:** October 05, 2006, 04:22:50 PM »

Ramos. Look back a few years, when many of the teachers here in Texas were armed (some still are today). This was the frontier way of life and it continued in many of the smaller schools, especially along the border, until very recently. I fully support an armed cop on the ssholl grounds, but I wouldn't have a problem with an armed teacher provided they were trained in firearms use, and hqad the abliity to place a bullet on target. Maybe this would keep some of the wannabe bad guys off the school grounds.

When someone mentions armed school teachers the first thing that comes to mind is Hattie Stillwell in her little one room school just east of Big Bend National Park. I met Hattie several years while on a rock hunting trip on her property near the Rio Grande, she was well into her late eighties, small and frail, but I would bet she could still handle her old .36 Colt Navy.

nabob · « **Reply #5 on:** October 05, 2006, 10:50:28 PM »

Well, I think the dangers of the frontier were a trifle bit more likely to result in injury than any dangers faced today. Despite all the hype, school invasions and kids shooting up other children are extremely rare, so it is an overreaction, in my opinion, to respond to such a low level threat with such a drastic solution. I think bringing a gun into school places children more at risk than excluding them. I live in the suburbs and I cannot imagine this idea gaining any traction whatsoever. Every parent I know would refuse to send their child to a school where the teachers were armed. I would, also, and I'm have a CCW. Neither my kids nor I am afraid of guns. We handle and use them year 'round. Putting a gun on a teacher, when the dangers my child are subjected to in no way warrant it, tells me that people are not thinking straight. They are reacting emotionally.

tscott · « **Reply #6 on:** October 06, 2006, 12:14:17 AM »

The biggest problem in schools is not gun assualts, it's poor parenting!!!

Brett · « **Reply #7 on:** October 06, 2006, 01:30:31 AM »

Quote from: tscott on October 06, 2006, 12:14:17 AM

The biggest problem in schools is not gun assualts, it's poor parenting!!!

BINGO!

jhm · « **Reply #8 on:** October 06, 2006, 03:20:03 AM »

Not really when you think about it no more over reaction than the anti gun bunch wanting to ban ALL GUNS when some tragidy takes place, I am not going to say all teachers should be armed but I do feel it would be helpful if some of them were highly trained in the proper use of a weapon to at least reduce some of the carnige until the authoritys arive. JIM

Heavy C · « **Reply #9 on:** October 06, 2006, 07:34:24 AM »

Rockbilly, I don't personally have an issue with teachers being armed. However that measure is too extreme for it to gain traction with the public in general. Someone also mentioned that in an earlier post and I believe it is a fair assesment.

Someone else mentioned poor parenting. That too is a fair assesment. I see evidence of that everyday at my daughter's middle school.

tallyho · « **Reply #10 on:** October 06, 2006, 12:34:28 PM »

CCW qualified teachers should be allowed to carry anywhere. Just like anyone who jumps through the CCW hoops should.

308Win · « **Reply #11 on:** October 07, 2006, 04:05:29 AM »

I see all the talking heads on TV telling us this and that must be done.But no one seems to understand our society is producing generations of minds that are mutant.I think that is the problem that must be addressed.Metal detectors in schools,more cops in school ,teachers with guns ,more gun control= what a sad state we are in.

WmRoy · « **Reply #12 on:** October 07, 2006, 04:49:07 AM »

Quote from: 308Win on October 07, 2006, 04:05:29 AM

I see all the talking heads on TV telling us this and that must be done.But no one seems to understand our society is producing generations of minds that are mutant.I think that is the problem that must be addressed.Metal detectors in schools,more cops in school ,teachers with guns ,more gun control= what a sad state we are in.

A return to Judeo-Christian values would likely be the BEST answer.......... of course that's not very PC now is it............

308Win · « **Reply #13 on:** October 07, 2006, 05:10:10 AM »

Quote from: WmRoy on October 07, 2006, 04:49:07 AM

Quote from: 308Win on October 07, 2006, 04:05:29 AM
I see all the talking heads on TV telling us this and that must be done.But no one seems to understand our society is producing generations of minds that are mutant.I think that is the problem that must be addressed.Metal detectors in schools,more cops in school ,teachers with guns ,more gun control= what a sad state we are in.

A return to Judeo-Christian values would likely be the BEST answer.......... of course that's not very PC now is it............

Yes the 10 Commandments say it all for a civilised society!But I think soon even the Bible will be taken out of the Court Room?

ironglow · « **Reply #14 on:** October 07, 2006, 03:13:55 PM »

No problem with armed teachers..
Properly selected teachers could pack a weapon...and save lives ! Shucks; these same teachers may well be going armed everywhere BUT in the school.
\
Think; if that Amish schoolhouse door were locked as soon as classes started..and the teacher was trained & armed...how many of those girls would hve been dead today ? ...Not near so many; I'd wager !

Can you recall that incident in West Virginia 2 opr 3 years ago, where an alien student decided he would shoot up the college he was attending...?

A lot of folks do not yet know that his murder spree was cut short by an instructor that slipped out to his vehiocle and grabbed his own gun...

Perhaps sopmeone here from near the scene in WV can provide more info..

magooch · « **Reply #15 on:** October 08, 2006, 03:09:19 AM »

How could allowing teachers to exercise their Second Amendment right be any worse than providing demented people with a weapons free environment to execise their mayhem? We trust teachers to mess with the impressionable minds of our young, but we don't allow them to at least have a fighting chance to protect their lives.

This of course is all too radical and not politically correct to ever be allowed in this ever more liberalized society. So the copycat weirdos will continue to exact their crazyness and the libs will demand that guns be removed from all of us.

Questor · « **Reply #16 on:** October 08, 2006, 03:44:16 AM »

It's understandable that most people don't really know much about Madison, WI. I do. It is the most extreme far left place I have ever been, and I've been in plenty of places.

If, for example, you listen to public radio in Madison, WI you will hear leftist, socialist, blatantly anti-republican broadcasts at most hours of the day, with absolutely nothing to balance it out. Whenever I go there it reminds me strongly of the radio stations in mainland China, which broadcast pro-government messages and permit nothing else to be broadcast.

And when I say "extreme" and "leftist" and "socialist" I am not misusing the words or exaggerating.

The guy who proposed this thing probably just ended his political career in Wisconsin.

ironglow · « **Reply #17 on:** October 08, 2006, 01:41:16 PM »

Yes Querstor;

..Guess it's not called the "People's Republik of Madison " ..for nothing !..LOL

Magooch is right on:

Consider the stupidity of the liberal stance..

Denying a background checked, well armed teacher, pilot or anyone else their second amendment rights in certain places...only opens up those "certain" places to an assault by a madman...and right now, the madman can rest assured that noone in the placel will be armed..

Brett · « **Reply #18 on:** October 08, 2006, 03:50:37 PM »

Quote from: Questor on October 08, 2006, 03:44:16 AM

It's understandable that most people don't really know much about Madison, WI. I do. It is the most extreme far left place I have ever been, and I've been in plenty of places.

Haven't been to Massachusetts have ya?

rockbilly · « **Reply #19 on:** October 09, 2006, 02:31:57 AM »

While some may think that it is not a good idea to arm teachers, think about this. The cops tell you they can not always be there to provide protection when you need it, it may even take them 20-30 minutes to respond. With this in mind, would you rather see your children in the care of an armed teacher than left with no protection it all?

A person intent on doing harm to children and/or teachers can act out their plan and be gone before law enforcement can get there. At least with an armed teacher they would have a (maybe slight) chaance of survival.

I am not saying every teacher should be given a gun, but if they can qualify why not allow them to carry?

buffermop · « **Reply #20 on:** October 09, 2006, 03:05:12 AM »

ARMED TEACHERS??? What a nitemare that would be. I work in a public school system, and from what I see,I would have more trust In Barney Fife with his one bullet.

magooch · « **Reply #21 on:** October 09, 2006, 03:17:41 AM »

Maybe the first step is to hire competent teachers who can control their classes and who believe in the Constitution.

nabob · « **Reply #22 on:** October 09, 2006, 01:26:35 PM »

Nightmare? Amen to that. It will never happen. Consider the liability lawsuit that will be filed the first time an innocent child is shot. No school board is going to sign on for that. There are plenty of other measures that are a lot less dangerous than introducing guns to schools.

308Win · « **Reply #23 on:** October 09, 2006, 03:36:24 PM »

Quote from: nabob on October 09, 2006, 01:26:35 PM

Nightmare? Amen to that. It will never happen. Consider the liability lawsuit that will be filed the first time an innocent child is shot. No school board is going to sign on for that. There are plenty of other measures that are a lot less dangerous than introducing guns to schools.

Can you elaborate on the solution?

nabob · « **Reply #24 on:** October 09, 2006, 11:13:22 PM »

There is NO solution that will keep every child 100% safe all the time, if that is what is meant by "solution". Arming teachers will not achieve this, nor will any other measure. However, arming teachers is an over-reaction to the danger, which is, despite the media attention on it, extremely rare.

Lock the doors to the outside, lock the doors to the classrooms, better doors for outside access and inside classrooms, communication to the outside world from each room, teach children and parents and teachers how to identify someone who is giving off signs of losing it, positive identification of all visitors, escorts for visitors, metal detectors, unobtrusive security, scram calls, drills - these should all be part of a mix of measures that are considered. No one mix is going to be right for every situation, though, and what works for the isolated school out in the rural area maybe isn't the same set of practices that works for an urban environment. Turning teachers into Dirty Harry works great in the movies but real life doesn't conform to Hollywood.

ironglow · « **Reply #25 on:** October 10, 2006, 12:02:08 AM »

I would guess by these posts, that in a high school of 150 teachers, there cannot be found 2 or 3 that are cool and competent enough to be armed !

It is a tragic situation when a 'nation of riflemen' can't find one or two competents from a well paid, well educated cast of 100-200 people !

So arming a teacher or two would be rejected because there is a chance of injury to students...does that mean there is NO CHANCE of injury if the madman is allowed to have his way..as in Nickle Mines, Pa ?

Perhaps iot is time some of these wimpy school boards were sued for NOT protecting the children as much as possible, by NOT arming a well qualified teacher!........just a thought

fe352v8 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 10, 2006, 02:24:04 AM »

Why stop there? Lets arm the students; we could test to see which ones are psychologically and physically capable, and then provide firearms training, to those qualified, in their phys ed classes. Why in just a few school years we would have a well-armed and trained cadre of students ready and able to respond to any school violence.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

magooch · « **Reply #27 on:** October 10, 2006, 03:03:45 AM »

Jon, you've simply got to learn the difference between scratching your ass and tearing a hole in it.

pills · « **Reply #28 on:** October 10, 2006, 04:47:36 AM »

Lemme first say here in Oklahoma we have local folks that dont act like the national party. I disagree with arming teachers but I do like this idea. Rural areas pose different challenges

http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=112373

KOTV - 10/9/2006 10:41 AM - Updated 10/9/2006 8:39 PM

An Oklahoma lawmaker came up with a measure he believes will improve school security, especially during an emergency, but it got little support during last year's state legislature as critics took aim on the proposal.

News on 6 anchor Craig Day takes another look at the idea of guns on campus.

Glen Bud Smithson is a retired state trooper. He's also a firearm safety instructor. As a state representative, the Democrat from Sallisaw introduced a bill last session he hoped would help with school security. "It's not the world that we grew up in. Where you could leave home and leave your doors unlocked and you trust every stranger that you seen. We don't have that today. So we're going to have to learn to protect ourselves."

The state house bill would have allowed principals and superintendents to carry a gun on school property. The administrators would have to get a concealed carry permit, undergo a background check and their school board would have to give the OK. “It was just something that would allow some of these schools to get a little first line defense on their own."

Smithson says the measure was prompted by concerns expressed by school superintendents in some rural parts of Oklahoma who feared law enforcement was too far away to respond quickly to an emergency. "We have schools in this area, that are 20 to 30 minutes away from response time from the closest sheriff's deputy. Yes we do. And that was a big concern."

The measure got some support in rural districts, but almost no backing in cities or schools in towns that had police nearby. So Smithson withdrew the bill. "It had so much opposition last year that I in all honesty, I don't see a chance of it passing again unless public sentiment changes."

State Representative Smithson doesn't anticipate re-filing the bill.

Despite heavy criticism, Smithson believes the measure was a good idea and at the very least, spurred discussion of ways to make schools safe. Smithson says he hopes the next legislature addresses ways to improve school security. He hopes that includes exploring state funding to help school districts with the cost of security personnel.

308Win · « **Reply #29 on:** October 10, 2006, 05:54:14 AM »

Did any of you have this problem when you were in school,I think this all started a few years back?I know i didn't.