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Author Topic: 45/70 or 30/30  (Read 3815 times)

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Offline handyman06

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2006, 05:36:58 AM »
Maybe you could invite bear hunters to use the camp and its facilities during bear season. Is pepper spray an option? I'm not recommending it as I have never even seen a black bear, but maybe somebody here has some experience with it. Do all of the kids know what to do if they see a bear? Good luck, I hope you continue to have safe outings!
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Offline victorcharlie

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2006, 01:25:40 PM »
Pepper spray = Cajun food for bears.....they like it spicy......
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Offline jpsmith1

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2006, 02:12:54 PM »
I'd vote for the 12 gauge.  Loaded with 1oz or 1 1/4oz slugs, it's an UNBEATABLE short range defensive gun.  Even given the proximity of 'civilians' I'd opt for a 12 gauge.

What I'd do differently is get a dedicated gun and set it up like cwlongshot's gun.  Setting up a defensive gun on an upland gun runs into a lot of messing around.  You pull the plug for the extra 2 rounds of capacity when it's a camp gun, then hopefully remember to put it back in before you hit the game fields in September.  Game Warden types don't like that.  I did carry a full 'tactical' 870 into the field for a while.  I slipped a piece of pipe into the mag as a plug because I had a 2 round extension on it.  It was fun to watch the game wardens check my gun.  You could just about see the heartbreak when the found that it was 100% legal.

I've still got all the 'tactical' parts in a box.  They are waiting for a nice 20-21" barreled gun with rifle sights to come down the pike.  That would be my 'camp gun'.  A total of 8 rounds on tap with a 6 round side saddle.  I could hold my own in a fight with a rig like that. 
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Offline lance1586

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2006, 03:57:03 PM »
Another economical option, which I don't know if has been mentioned, is to swap out your 30" tube (or keep it if you like) and buy some rifled slugs.  I'm a LEO and we finaly switched, after over a hundred years it seems, from 00 buck to low recoil slugs and a short barreled 18" syn stocked 870 with a nice 1" recoil pad and a sling as our primary car carry rig (750 man department).  You could easily convert one of your shotguns or pick one up at a pawn shop for cheap and install a smooth barrel, which are much cheaper than a rifled barrel, sling, butt pad and even a set of ghost ring sights if you wanted to and have a really good bear stopper.  I would never try and talk you out of a center fire lever rifle but if you are comfortable with the "operating system" of an 870 and ergonomics then why switch?  An ounce of lead is what 750 grains?  I have shot the short barreled smooth bores out to 100 yards and they are accurate enough on the FBI "Q" targets.  I was a little skeptical of how accurate these new shotguns would be with a smooth bore and rifled slugs but trust me - they work!  Out to 25 yards from a tactical standing position the better shooters can hold them within a couple inches from each other -  this during rapid fire drills.  Good luck with your project.
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Offline EsoxLucius

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2006, 03:13:16 AM »
An ounce is 437.5 grains.
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Offline oso45-70

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2006, 08:23:01 AM »

Gentelmen,

Looks like we have drifted from the heading of this forum just a little 45-70 & 30-30 and of the two i would take the 45-70 over the 30-30 not that a 30-30 would not do the job. In a little different situation where the bear was cought on the ground and fighting the hounds i would rather have my hunters shoot the bear with a 45-70. The bear at this point may decide to fight the men or horses and there is nothing as quick as 405grs through the heart of a mad bear.......Joe.........
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Offline ggeilman

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2006, 07:57:05 AM »
Recently I decided to pick up a rifle for home defense after having little experience save a 22 myself. Ended up with a Marlin 1895CB 45/70, a Winchester 30-30 26" Octagonal barrel and a Marlin 336. Will be a long winter paying them off! I am obviously no expert here, but I would be more comfortable knowing that bear was stopped the first time.
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Offline Golsovia

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2006, 08:03:32 PM »
There is no question in my mind on this one, a standard 170 grain bullet - Core-Lokt or Winnie- out penetrates both 00 buck and standard 1 oz slugs out of a 12 gauge so the 30-30 wins the first round. Of the 30-30, with any bullet, and the 45-70, again, there is no question; I'll take the 45 with jacketed expanding bullets. Anything soft from the 400 Speer to the 405 Woodleigh come to mind as being adequate as well as anything in between those, including the plain ol' factory 405 Remington. The second round (easily) goes to the 45-70. If you are really intent on a shotgun, it must be with excellent slugs unless you know that all bears you may encounter weight less than 200 pounds. (Highly doubtful.) Then, you need to weigh your familiarity with a shotgun versus the factor of safety you have in carrying a chamber loaded levergun (only when you must) with the hammer at half cock. That would be safer than the 870 chamber loaded with safety "on."

For a bit of info on bone destruction tests of various projectiles:

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Offline NYHunter

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2006, 06:39:02 AM »
There is no choice here. Given the scenario the .45-70 wins hand down.
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Offline mk454

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2006, 12:35:46 PM »
the .45/70 guide gun is about the most perfect short/close range defensive dangerous game combo ever made, especially with the garrett ammo, imho.  it's fast, with some practice, you can have a 2nd follow up right behind the first as soon as it's coming out of recoil, which makes it nearly as quick as a double, but with a couple more up the spout, anyway, in that situation, you sound like you need an expanding bullet to minimize penetration with that many kiddos around.

another option, i love this for big hogs in texas, and would work awesome in the scenario you bring up, is a puma 92 in .454 casull with some 300 grain hornady xtp's.  it's even smaller and quicker than a guide gun imho, and wouldn't overpenetrate and the xtps will open up a wound channel in the thin skinned blackbear something fierce.  it will definitely knock the snot out of a black bear.
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Offline Stan in SC

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2006, 02:13:43 PM »
All of this discussion and theory.It is a SIMPLE answer.You want to stop a bear.Use the biggest thing you can get.A 45/70 is a lovely round BUT....a 12 Gauge slug is .72 caliber.It's all in the numbers.What do guides carry in bear country?12 Gauge shotguns.

Stan
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Offline Cottonwood

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2006, 05:20:52 PM »
Here's a link on Black Bear Attack Facts  Having some knowledge in the bear dept with Montana Wildlife and Parks, I do know that our Wardens carry 12 ga. shotguns for bear defense, and is also what they recomend while traveling in bear country, which we have both black and griz.

But your question is in regarding either the 30-30 or the 45-70... simple answer is this,either one will serve your purpose.  You have to be comfortable with which you want to carry though.  If I did not have a 12 ga with a 18 or 20" barrel I would not feel under-gunned with my 30-30 at all.  If I were looking for a reason to purchase another lever action rifle, I would probably opt for the 1895GG in 45-70 as it will take on anything with 4 legs in all of North America.
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Offline Ridge Runner

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2007, 09:56:02 AM »
In terms of economics and probability, go with an 870. If you have the extra money to spend get a 45/70.

I guess it comes down to asking game wardens what they would prefer. They would have the most first hand experience. Either that or Guides that hunt bear exclusively.
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Offline shilo

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2007, 01:43:17 PM »
Not really sure how a 45/70 guide gun is going to be any handier than a short barreled 870 ? A short barreled 870 loaded with slugs, especially 3" mags, is one heck of a force to be reckoned with. The Lightfield hybridelite 3"mag is a 1 1/4oz slug at 1730fps that generates 3628ft/lbs of energy. Couple that with the huge diameter of a 12ga slug and you've got one heck of a stopper.
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Offline Buckeye

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2007, 06:33:16 AM »
 There was a 550 Lb. Black Bear killed just 6 miles form my home,after it killed one hound and was mauling another ,it then lundged at a hunter that was running to the aide of there whaling dog,,the hunter was armed with a 1895 Marlin 45/70 he shot the bear in the eye it was no more than 20ft. from him,  the bears front quarters was lifted and turned sideways ,the gun was loaded with 405gr. Rem. factory rounds.
Needless to say only one shot was needed.
It was JUST a blackbear.

I have levers chambered in 45/70, 444M,375win.,35 Rem. & 30-30. Until this happed I always felt well armed with any of the above mentioned ,But would rather have a 444M or a 45/70.


its just a Black Bear...larger bears are getting to be more of the norm in these parts..

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Offline troglodyte

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Re: 45/70 or 30/30
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2007, 02:25:19 PM »
I do appreciate all the input...even it does drift off at times.

I'll stay with the 870 for time being.  I might see if I can find a shorter barrel for a good price.

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