Author Topic: youth 243 for bear?  (Read 847 times)

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Offline rangerover

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youth 243 for bear?
« on: October 08, 2006, 04:11:13 AM »
Just got my daughter (age 9) a 243/ 20 gauge combo with the autumn camo laminate stocks.  I put a 30 mm red dot on it and she shoots it quite well loaded with Federal Premium 85 gr. Barnes triple shock bullets.  She would like to go on a Maine bear hunt next year hunting over bait out of tree stands.  Will this setup do the job, or will she need to step up in caliber?  I'll be there for back up (375 H&H) ;D

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2006, 08:55:31 AM »
The 243 will be just fine as long as she puts the bullet thru the lungs. Personally I would like to see you use a 90 or heavier bullet, but I'm not going to dwell on that, the Barnes triple shock is a good bullet. It WILL hold together and penetrate thru and thru on a lungs shot. If a shoulder shot, It'll still get in and destroy the vitals just may not exit.

Maine Bears average 125 for the sows and 150-160 for the boars. The shots are close, with in 50yds easy. Not a bunch bigger than Whitetails!!  Sure there is always a chance at a bruiser, but put that Lil' bullet thru the lungs of any bear that comes to eat and you'll be eating bear stew for some time!!

 Here is a tip for ya, pick up some anise (Blk licorice sent/taste) at the grocery store and give it to your guide. Bears LOVE it!!

 Good luck!!

 CW
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Offline rangerover

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2006, 10:01:10 AM »
What bullet would you recommend?  I have taken around 50 deer with 150 grain old style Barnes in a 30-06, and have had 100% success.  Is there a factory loaded  bullet for the 243 heavier than 100 grains?

Offline Fred M

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2006, 12:51:10 PM »
Range rover.
I am not a fan of any 243. For a kid it is ok as long as as she or him can place a shot at 50yards within 2", at which distance most black bears are shot. Discourage any game shooting over 100yard, for the kids. Teach them to shoot from a rest or bi-pod under field conditions.

Your 85gr factory TSX bullet is perhaps the best bullet you can use in a 243. I will not break up at short range, it has terrific penetration and expands to twice its diameter without loosing any weight.

You can pick your spot and drop the bear in its track by breaking both shoulders, or behind the ear. Don't shoot him through the ribs or he will take off and hard to find in the bush. A shot through the heart is ok too but he may not go down.

They are not hard to kill, but a 243 requires a precise shot. At 50 yards that should be easy. But watch out for buck fever.

Consider the following a 100gr soft point will loose 60% of its weight when hitting game so all you have left is 40.0gr of bullet. I love the TSX bullets, they work and work good.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2006, 01:21:15 PM »
105gr is the heaviest there is for the .243. Truth be told, as Fred says, the Barnes is a mighty good bullet!!

The thing about Bears is they have quite a bit of FAT on them. That Fat tends to plug up holes so BLOOD trailing them can be difficult. They are not overly hard to kill. Personally I always shoot for bones and anchor what ever I shoot. But I also like big bullets and heavy for caliber projectiles. I am not what you would call a speed freak. I like em to plow threw and get energy from a large bullet. the .243 is not one of these, but its an excellent caliber and you have chosen an excellent bullet for it.

 Study a bears anatomy and be sure to hit important vitals. You could shoot for the base of the neck. but its a high percentage shot and a small target. I do not recommend it for an inexperienced hunter. Same goes for a head shot, too risky. Personally I wont take a head shot. Too many variables. I did it once as a young hunter on a deer. i shot a bit lo and shot the animals lower jaw off. I did not recover it but found it after the season whale looking for sheds. it appeared to have died of starvation...I swore then and there will not ever do that again.

BTW, NOTHING will live with both lungs perforated by your .243, Heart shot animals RUN!!! I have shot the heats OUT of them and the buggers still run hundreds of yards!!!  I shot one with a bow, ON SNOW. Every time the front feet hit the ground blood sprayed three feet out each side. After about 100 ft only I only found drops. I recover him after another 100 YARDS!!!
 Big Game shot thru the lungs will usually run a bit, as long as the animal is calm he wont travel very far. Just sit tight and wait for the death ball, it will drop close enough for you to hear it.

CW
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Offline bearfat

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2006, 01:41:15 PM »
I just looked through Cabela's 2006 Shooting/Reloading catalog and saw nothing in factory. Hornady makes a 105 grain A-max for reloading but I don't know anything about them and they almost look like a long range speciality bullet that might not do very well close in on a bear.

cwlongshot is correct with the lung shot and I'd agree with a good quality 90 gr or heavier hunting bullet no problem. But...to play devils advocate and tell a tale while doing so let me tell you about 4 bears we hit with 30-06's. You might conclude it was the bullet and I tend to agree since I am switching to 220 gr Sierra Game King although I like what I see about the Barnes Triple Shock and may take a few game with them also the next few years.

The first bear was a perfect broadside shot at 35 yds using a factory Nosler 180 gr partition bullet. It hit a rib going in and for some reason the back half (partition) deflected 90 degrees and ended up in the neck where I found it when I skinned it. The front half of the partition did what it was suppose to do, peel back and send secondary shrapnel through the lungs ending up on the other side of the chest wall, as did the rib bone I had hit. The bear went 10 yards.

I called Nosler to complain and they stated humbly that they had a few calls with the same complaint. I didn't give up on Nosler, just decided I needed to roll my own and use a 200 grain Nosler Partition and this is where the second bear comes into play. I walked quietly up on a 200 pound bear in my bait station and when he looked at at me through the brush I sent the 200 gr partition (pumped to max powder load per Nosler manual) along side his face into the neck and down into his left lung. He jumped and rolled and tossed like a jackrabbit stung with birdshot and took off just as fast. There was no 2nd shot to even consider it all happened so fast. He ran 75 yards.


                       Jackrabbit Bear. He scared the heck out of me!!

While hunting bear on the Grand Portage Indian Res the game warden approached us with a dilemma. The tribal council had voted any nusiance bears live trapped in the village were no longer to be released but simply shot to thin down the over abundance of bears in the village. Being good stewards we told him we would take the two bears (each slightly over 200 lbs) off his hands and skin and eat them. But we would like to take a video of the execution as he released them from the live traps. He agreed.

We set up for "Skeet Black Bear" and told him to "pull" the gate open. I shot the first bear with a solid hit into the
shoulder/lung with a 200 grain Nosler Partition and made him stumble but not fall. He took off running. A 2nd shot from me into his powerplant caused him to drop. My brother-in-law seeing the pounding the 1st bear took did not even let the 2nd bear get his foot on the ground, shooting it in the neck (again with Nosler 200 gr Partitions) as it exited the trap. It took off like a rabbit and I had to shoot it again since my brother-in-law was stunned and couldn't get a second shot off.  

I don't want to sound like I'm bad mouthing Nosler Partition's because they have done fine on "most" of the game I have taken. But I'm going to give Sierra and maybe Barnes a chance to show their product to me. Theres probably many out there who have never had the problems I have had...but what I have stated is true and I have the video of the "Skeet Black Bear".  

rangerover you've taken twice the deer I have and if Federal is using a Barnes bullet it might be better to stick with a proven bullet for the .243 and your daughter. I guess I'd stay away from Nosler Partition esp in the .243 and regardless what bullet you use keep that 375 H&H handi for a followup shot if you can get it.  Ol' blackie can take one heck of a pounding!  
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Offline jpsmith1

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2006, 02:59:08 PM »
A 50 yard shot at a stationary animal shouldn't be a problem with a .243.  I've used one to take a few deer and they don't run far.  The problem comes in being able to wait for the 'perfect' shot.  While your bear is fooling around with the bait, your daughter's excitement level is going up.  After however long this takes to get the shot lined up, will she be able to make the shot? 

You said it was a .243/20 gauge combo.  What about using the 20 gauge?
Searching for the perfect left handed revolver.....

Offline Rustyinfla

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2006, 06:48:38 PM »
Bearfat,
  Not to hijack this thread, but is there any way you can post the "Skeet Black bear" video on the web?

        Thanks,
          Rusty <><
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tuff

Offline myarmor

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2006, 07:07:38 PM »
I'll be honest, I have not shot a bear...yet.
Still I have took heart shots on several deer, and have liquified their hearts with good shots. Even then the deer have been able to run. It suprises me, how can an animal actually run without a beating heart? Then again they never run too far, only 50yards or so. A chest full of jelly, and the ability to take off...amazing how rugged any animal can be when the adrenaline is pumping.
My best too you in your upcoming hunt.
-Aaron

Offline bearfat

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2006, 12:59:36 AM »
Bearfat,
  Not to hijack this thread, but is there any way you can post the "Skeet Black bear" video on the web?

        Thanks,
          Rusty <><

I'll have to transfer it over to CD, and get some software to edit it down to just the critical 10 seconds after the release but yes...I will try. Give me some time. Deer hunting and vacation just about to start. I do know the couple of tapes I made of it were big entertainment for my buddies, but they had a full TV screen advantage and analyzed it frame by frame. Web qualiity though crude has had me laughing to tears at times with various stuff.       I'LL DO IT!
bearfats cabin:    http://buckmountainchateau.com/

Offline rangerover

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2006, 03:32:42 AM »
I had originally planned a bear hunt for myself.  I would use my 375 H&H (can't ever have too much gun), but since my daughter is really getting into hunting, I would rather her take the shot.  This means lightweight calibers, so thanks for all of the info on hunting with the little bullets.

She has her eye on several bucks on our farm and season starts in three weeks.  Hopefully there will be meat in the freezer within a month.

Offline Thebear_78

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2006, 09:59:49 AM »
Barnes makes a 115gr RN for the 243 and speer makes a 105gr RN, both are decent bullets that would work.  The 85-100gr TSX or 100gr partitons would probably also work.  SHot placement is key of course.   There isn't a bear alive that could take one of these little pills to the lungs and live to tell about it, but they might be hard to find.  Bears don't bleed as easily as deer because of all the fat and absorbant fur.  little holes plug up quick, it might be hard to recover the animal without the use of a trailing dog.   You might be better off getting her a 30-30 barrel for her handi rifle.  SHoot pretty much any 170gr flat point bullet, recoil is fairly tame and it has a proven track record on game.  Another option would be a 44 rem mag barrel.  For close range shots this would provide a bigger hole.

Offline Thebear_78

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2006, 02:06:43 PM »
I wouldn't jump his case too badly,  there has been a lot of beard killed with the little 243.  There is a big difference between a 243 and a 22 hornet.  Most black bear aren't any bigger than white tails

Offline rangerover

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2006, 03:02:23 PM »
rangerover,243 for Bear what's next 22 Hornet?You people astonish me with your Roderic unreal!!
 


My bow will work fine, and I figure a 243 may have slightly more  power ;D.

Offline 308Win

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Re: youth 243 for bear?
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2006, 03:14:26 PM »
rangerover,In the hands of a young girl OK you win!!
How much money must we spend before we learn to concentrate on the front sight?"Col Jeff Cooper"