Author Topic: Scope vs open sights (Read 2208 times)

lvt01 · « **on:** October 09, 2006, 03:37:50 AM »

Hi all! I would like some of your input on scopes versus open sights for hunting. I've been pistol hunting for 7-8 years with the encores and use them mainly for whitetail up north here in Minnesota. I just picked up another complete pistol in a 308 with a TC 2.5x7x28 scope. I've been using my 44 with open sights mainly and this setup has worked well for stand hunting for me. I had a 260 barrel with a Burris 2x20 on 1st and then I went to a Bushnell 2x6x32 on it. I still didn't like the set up so I sold the barrel and went back to my 44 with open sights. What happens is 2 things....I have trouble getting the scope on target fast enough and I can't seem to hold it steady enough to make a good clean shot. I've tried a bipod on 1 setup, a steady stick and have tried the Sling It sling on them all. The sling seems to help the most to keep me pretty steady, but with scope out at arms length I sometimes lose the fur in the cross hairs, it gets fuzzy or it gets out of focus totally. My best luck is just to try and squeeze the shot when the cross hairs bob to about where I want the shot. My stands vary in distance....anywhere from 20 yds out to...oh maybe 150 yds or so. I obviously wouldn't take a shot that distance with my 44, but would like to try with this 308. I do really well with the high power barrels off the rest or when I'm just plinking targets at my range, but when the pressure is on I seem to choke. Anybody have any suggestions that work for you! Thanks for you input! Larry

jhalcott · « **Reply #1 on:** October 09, 2006, 10:40:13 AM »

Larry .I almost NEVER take an unrested shot at game. Years ago I'd get laughed at when I carried a small sand bag to my stand. I keep my scopes on the LOWEST power till I see a deer. Then if I have time,I crank it up. I carried my super Black hawk .44 in my hand while going to and from my stand for a couple years. I had the contender in my hand on the stand, with a sand bag on the rail. I admit that I do NOT practice enough with the .44 any more. But since I've gotten used to the T/C's I rarely take it out of the safe.

Keith L · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2006, 02:03:26 PM »

Let em laugh. If you have a rest use it. Make things as steady as you can. When I build stands I make sure that there are rests just right so I can be real steady in the shooting lanes.

MePlat · « **Reply #3 on:** October 10, 2006, 02:46:32 PM »

If you have trouble hitting with a scope then that tells me you aren't much of an open sight shooter either or you let the scope intimidate you. If you are shooting from an unsteady position with Irons the sight moves just like it moves with a scope you just don't notice it as much.
You move no more with a scope than with Iron Sights. Don't let the clear and magnified movement intimidate you. The gun is just as steady as if the iron sights were on it. Just accept your movement like you would with Iron Sights and squeeze her off. You are tensing up and it causes you to move even more because of the intimidation factor. It can also cause your vision to blurr too. Don't let youself get all antsy
You need to get hold of yourself and you will see what I mean.. I shoot alot of the times offhand with a Bushnell 2-6 power set on 6 power. Are you up to that? Try it and let me know what you think.

jhalcott · « **Reply #4 on:** October 10, 2006, 03:23:46 PM »

meplat IS right ! the movement is there all the time. Get a laser sight like crimson trace and you will see the red "dot'" travel all around when you THINK you are holding steady. There is one company that makes laser inserts that you put in the chamber and "SHOOT" at a special target. A bright spot indicates where your shot would have hit.The MOST important thing to do is practice.Even shooting rubber bands off your finger will help.You don't need to punish your self with recoil and noise. An air gun will work to get you used to using the sights.

lvt01 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2006, 03:51:07 AM »

Ya know MePlat....that's one concern/fear I always have had about posting on this forum. I've seen it happen here time and time again. I made the mistake of asking for some positive suggestions or solutions for some particular problems that I am experiencing with these darn pistol scopes and then my meager shooting skills or experience gets slammed the 1st thing. You know absolutely nothing about me or my abilities and then you chose to jump to some pretty big conclusions about me. I happen to have only usable vision in 1 eye so my depth perception sucks to say the least. Looking down those skinny little pistols scopes mounted on a pistol that I'm trying to hold steady at an arms length and that weighs just a few pounds is getting to be a might of a challenge for me anymore. I've beening hunting game with most any kind of firearm open sights or scoped for over 40 years. I can't really say that I'm a damn good hunter, but I do OK. Thanks for all the great advice! Larry

EdK · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2006, 04:50:06 AM »

I hear you Larry,

I shoot red dot sights and 2x fixed power scopes for most all offhand hunting.

I've got one barrel with a 2-6 variable but it's on 2x or so unless I've got a rest.

I'll shoot a higher power variable (e.g. 3-12) only if I've got a good rest or I'm shooting a varmint - not big game.

I know there are those out there who handgun hunt big game at 200-250 yards but I guess that's just not me. Got to use my rifles sometime

***************************

Bottom line is I'm more comfortable with the sight picture offered by crosshairs or a dot than iron sights - even at 1x or 2x

Ed

Keith L · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2006, 05:44:42 AM »

Eye relief is a problem with some scopes also. I have one scope that is now living on its own in the safe because my arms are must not long enough to get it clear. I also have trouble with picking up the target with my longer scopes, sometimes having to lift my head a couple of times to get a good sight picture.

I have had some pretty good luck with a sling, but I do best if I have a solid rest or shooting sticks to rest on. I also have a walking stick and a yoke on top that works fairly well when moving around. The longer the scope (higher power) the harder is is for me to shoot without a rest. That goes for rifles as well.

There is some good advice on this string. Just ignore the rest.

Good luck!

lvt01 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2006, 05:55:41 AM »

Sorry guys! I didn't mean to sound harsh, but I get irritated a little quicker when I know that I can't make things work the way they used to when I was in my 20's & 30's. This getting old stuff is for the birds. I just wanted to know if somebody had come up with some new tricks I hadn't thought of to make the shot a little steadier and target acquisition a little quicker. I've never been a great pistol hunter to begin with, but I always like the challenge anyway. I have a couple of different sticks I carry with me too. The scope thing can be a real battle too. I've had some cheap scopes that I have better luck with than some of my spendier ones. I think you're right Keith about the higher power ones being a problem as well as some that you just can't find you're target without bobbing your head like a gopher a few times. Thanks for the support too Ed. I don't feel so bad when I'm not alone in having problems making 200+ yard shots with the pistol. You guys all have a good day and if somebody has some other new suggestions....I'm all ears. Thanks! Larry

lvt01 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2006, 06:01:42 AM »

Nope....you weren't seeing double...my computer froze and then I hit the post again. Soory!!! Larry

Qaz · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2006, 07:43:51 AM »

Lvt1- Don't worry, we are all getting older

. You are right, you should not have asked this question because it sounds like you are doing just fine the way you are hunting. That crap that people post about moving just as much with a scope is just that"crap". Leopold published information years ago about this very thing. The article basically said that the higher the magnification the more you move, and this is because, the brain is getting too much information when you are looking through the scope and you are over compensating for the movement that you see. That said, each person probably has a thresh hold of magnification that they shoot well with.
I prefer open sights on a pistol for all off hand shooting and hunting. I use a scope after 100yds if shooting off a rest and can shoot a 2 1/2 inch group consistantly at 200yds with a rest and a 3x scope. Can i do better with a higher power scope, no not really. My point is, that I have found what works for me and stick with it and the older I get the better it works!
Good luck

Qaz

encore3006 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2006, 09:23:50 AM »

lvt01 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2006, 10:06:45 AM »

Nope...I don't think we are alone here. I think it depends on who is willing to admit it. I think I read about somebody using a technique something like that once before. It sounds logical. Have to try it sometime and see how it works. I usually try and grab a hold of anything I can to steady that muzzle, but sometimes it just isn't there. Thanks for the idea! Larry

MePlat · « **Reply #13 on:** October 16, 2006, 09:55:45 AM »

Lvt1: I would have respondes sooner but my modem took a dive but now I will. Did you say anything aqbout your vision? If you did where was it? You asked for advise and you got it. Would I have tippytoed around more if I knew you were vision impared? Yes. I am 54 years old and I can't do as I once did. Join the club. Get over it. I have. A guy used to come to the range where I shot that had very very bad eyes but he didn't carry on about it.
When you ask for advise please let people know the information they need to know to respond adequatly to your request then if they don't meet your expectations jump on them then not when you are partly at fault.

lvt01 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 16, 2006, 12:00:15 PM »

MePlat:I'm just going to let this go. I could get into a word war with you and that wasn't the purpose of my question nor is it the purpose of this forum. Thanks anyway! lvt01

jhalcott · « **Reply #15 on:** October 16, 2006, 02:15:35 PM »

Larry, did you ever try a sling over one shoulder and under the other and adjusted to just short of arms length? Or at the spot the scope is best located? You push out on the gun and the sling acts as a brace of sorts. With the sling and a tall bipod walking stick ,I've been able to make some 150+ yard shots on ground hog. I did kill one deer with this method.at well over 100 yards using a 30-30 contender/4x scope.Being half blind myself (both eyes, not one) i know what you mean about depth perception. That ALMOST cost me my drivers license.

lvt01 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 16, 2006, 04:13:34 PM »

Yes....I do have the Sling It sling. It really does steady up the shot. I've tried that in combination with a walking stick I made that has a fork at the top that I can stick the front end of the pistol in. I haven't tried bipod sticks before. So that must help get rid of some side to side sway...right? Does it take you much time to get yourself all set up to take the shot? Does yours have the adjustable legs too?

Keith L · « **Reply #17 on:** October 17, 2006, 12:05:38 AM »

For me there is no quick way to find the target in a long pistol scope. The field of view is so smsall that I have to look several times prior to finding the target. I am told to look at the target while bringing the pistol up to position. I don't know how to do this from a rest. If I have to aquire the target quickly I need to use a red dot or iron sights.

jhalcott · « **Reply #18 on:** October 17, 2006, 04:07:46 PM »

Larry ,I usually set the legs all the way out if I anticapate a shot while walking thru the woods.I am 6'4" so need a TALL bipod. My handgun is on a sling.As I bring the bipod into position with one hand I put the gun into the yoke.This helps to open the legs. stoney Point made my bipod. any way YOU MUST practice this a lot to make it work. I practice at home and at the range.It removes a LOT of the side to side swaying. With the sling adding front to back tension you can be very steady. If I jump a deer and it runs, I will scramble a few yards to the side. Then if I don't see him right away I wait for him to move. I don't like shooting running animals .But I set the bipod and try to wait him out.Some times I get lucky. the only down side to the Stoney Point Polecat is carrying it thru the woods, it must weigh about a POUND!. I'd leave it home ,but I need it to get up when I fall.

lvt01 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 18, 2006, 03:59:35 AM »

Just got an adjustable bipod stick yesterday. I ran a few rounds through my pistol last night with it. It made all the difference in the world. The combination between the sling and using the stick works awesome. It really steadied up everything for me. Now I need to work on getting it set up more quickly to take those unanticipated shots. Thanks for all the info! Larry

jhalcott · « **Reply #20 on:** October 18, 2006, 03:46:21 PM »

TOLD YA'

Just remember to practice.OFTEN!

xphunter · « **Reply #21 on:** October 19, 2006, 06:29:43 AM »

Larry,
Are you moving/still hunter/spot-n-stalk style hunter or do you more often use a ground blind or elevated blind?

lvt01 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 24, 2006, 06:01:04 AM »

Sorry Ernie...I got busy. To answer your question....I pretty much use tree stands to hunt anymore. If its really cold during muzzleloader season I'll duck in a ground blind, but I usually stay in the trees.

lvt01 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 07, 2006, 05:31:12 AM »

Just had to tell everyone "Thanks" for their input before. I took a nice little 6 pt basket buck with my 308 pistol yesterday afternoon. I had been practicing with it before season with a monopod and the Sling It sling. Together they make a pretty solid base to shoot from. My one stand has a lot of heavy deer traffic, but has a great deal of brush for cover across the valley on the other side. It makes it a pretty impossible shot for the shotgun. You have to wait for the deer to step into little clearings to try and needle the shot between the small trees. I know...I tried almost the same shot 2 nights before and missed with the shotgun. Last night was totally different. Basically all I could clearly make out were the head and a little of his rear end. He was standing behind a pretty good tuft of some prickly ash. He had made me in the stand, but wasn't bolting. I waited for him to take one more step and I squeezed off the shot. It was pretty good neck shot. I just can't "Thank" you all enough for the info. Larry

xphunter · « **Reply #24 on:** November 07, 2006, 10:06:34 AM »

Congrats and good shot!

Shots TCs · « **Reply #25 on:** November 14, 2006, 05:18:49 PM »

Glad you got your Buck

....Good Shootin!

Practice, practice, and practice some more....

Jim

lvt01 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 15, 2006, 05:29:29 AM »

Thanks again! I got a doe with the pistol a couple days later off the same stand. I think I'm on the right track with the pistol. Its far from perfect, but its been a whole lot of fun learning how to make it work.

MnMike · « **Reply #27 on:** November 15, 2006, 06:53:40 PM »

I have tried a few things to steady my aim with a scope on my 7-30. Trees work great. Stand shooting rests work great. Sometimes though, I just take a plastic chair out hunting. Monopods and bipods still leave me with front to back unsteadiness. What I have been using for a couple of years is an old microphone stand. It has five legs that fold up for carry, and fold down for stability. I added a shaped piece of 2x6 where the mic holder would screw in. This gives me a good steady rest. I adjust the elevation by using the twist adjustment in the stand to suit the terrain and make fine adjustments by moving the pistol fore and aft.

just a thought,

mike

neald · « **Reply #28 on:** November 16, 2006, 03:32:44 AM »

Larry,
Sorry you got slamed on here.
Here is my two pennies worth. I have a .445 Surepmagon a contender frame. I bought it CHEAP ( the gent I bought it from was scared ouf it, he had only shot it 3 times). Using a 2-7 Burrus scope, set on 2 almost all the time, unless I am on the bench. I also use a sling looped around my neck and shortened up so when pushing the gun away from my body my elbows are bent and I have the correct eye reliefo this in while using a tree or what ever is around to help steady the gun (and me).
Good luck to you
Neal