patching with teflon tape

[jhalcott]

 Online

Posts: 704


    bullet patching with Teflon tape
« on: Yesterday at 03:14:01 PM »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Would you need a hard bullet(linotype) or can I get away with a softer alloy when patching with teflon? I'm talking about RIFLE loads in the 21-2700 fps range! Also would you go with 2 wraps as in paper patching or more(4,5,6?) Calibers from 7MM to 35 ,with a heavy interest in .30 caliber.Why would you need another lube (LLA ,FWFL, alox/beeswax)??
 
 Report to moderator    68.50.58.205 
 

[JBMauser]

two wraps of teflon tape were what was used in the tests done and published in Handloader mag.  You would want to luse a harder alloy at 2700 fps because soft lead does not like to spin at high vel.  It can/will  disrupt and even come apart.  the teflon is a lubed jacket.  no other lube is required.  I run my wraped teflon pills through the sizer to iron on the teflon skin.  A hint here is to roll your pills across a bas!ard file or such to rough up the surface of the pill to give the surface some "bite" to hold on the teflon condom.....best of luck, let us know your results.  JB

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

See my post in "Cast Bullet Discussion".  I do it a bit differently, for a different purpose.

[jhalcott]

After posting this, I decided to do a test. I wrapped some 311466 ,150 gr bullets with 2 wraps of tape.5 were taped then gas checked,5 were gas checked THEN taped. There was no difference in group size and no sign of leading. a 3x scope and sandbags were used The barrel is a S14" contender. The load is 27/IMR3031/wlr. range was 50 yards.
  I wrapped 10 280468 112 gr bullets with 2 wraps and 10 with 4 wraps of teflon tape. Then gas checked them. Loaded into 7tc/u cases on 25/imr3031/cci sr. I shot them thru a 21" and S14" contenders with a 7x scope and used sandbags. BOTH barrels preferred the 2 wrap bullets. The groups were about 2" but the 2 wraps were more clustered with a flier,while the 4 wraps were "patterns" Does that make sense? The alloy is a Lyman #2 mix about 15-16 bhn. NO OTHER LUBE was used and accuracy was not the idea. I plan on using a known accurate load and changing ONLY the llube for tape.I've got to get the chrono fixed to find out what these loads are doing The 30-30 SHOULD be going 2100+ and the 7mm should be getting 2200 at least.

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

Use the heavier gasfitters teflon tape.  3/4" wide and .003 thick.  Wrap only once with an overlap.  Twist the excess over the base.  No need for sizing, or gaschecks IMHO.

PTFE THREAD SEAL TAPE Mil Spec T-27730A  3/4" x 520"

[jhalcott]

those tefloned bullets(wrapped then gced) averaged 1870 in a S14" Tc and 2039 fps in the 21" barrels. I did not have any 30-30 rounds left.These same 280468 bullets lubed with FWFL got some what higher velocity.

[Tom W.]

O.K., now I'll ask a question.
Do I understand correctly that I can take a .277 jacketed bullet, wrap a few turns of teflon tape on it and seat the wrapped bullet in my 7mm Rem mag case and expect to hit something?  I know that's an over simplification, but I suppose it's akin to me taking a .32 cal roundball and using a piece of lubed chamois for a patch in my .45 caliber  muzzleloader. That I have done with great results.

[jhalcott]

  Tom ,my 280468 mold is an OVER sized one . It throws a .285 diameter bullet,NOT a .277 one. I have tried a piece of rabbit fur around a 1/2" steel ball in my .58 Enfield with fair accuracy at 25 yards. I suppose IF you have a bullet .012" to small ,you COULD try patching it.There are too many variables for any one to say if it will work. I personally would NOT try it unless it was an emergency situation.

[Tom W.]

O.K. thanks for the reply. I've always been curious about paper patched bullets but never bold enough  ( or perhaps too lazy) to try them.

[geezerbiker]

I know this is an old thread but I find it intriguing.  I wrapped some 1/2" wide tape a couple times around a .452 slug and was able to get it up to .460.  I'd like to run a few of these through my .45-70 to see how they print.   

However working with the 1/2" wide tape wasn't any fun.  I managed to find some 1" wide .003" thick tape on-line and I'm going to order a few rolls.  If this works well I don't think I will bother with lubing cast rifle bullets again...

It might be awhile but I'll post my results here...

Tony

[OSOK]

Tony, keep us posted. I have a bunch of 230 gr. .45 acp bullets that I have been thinking about PP'ing in my BC.

[SHOOTALL]

Use the heavier gasfitters teflon tape.  3/4" wide and .003 thick.  Wrap only once with an overlap.  Twist the excess over the base.  No need for sizing, or gaschecks IMHO.

PTFE THREAD SEAL TAPE Mil Spec T-27730A  3/4" x 520"

The same thickness tape is made for high heat application pink roll vs yellow roll .

[geezerbiker]

Tony, keep us posted. I have a bunch of 230 gr. .45 acp bullets that I have been thinking about PP'ing in my BC.

When I first hear of paper patching many years ago it was in an article in one of the gun rags.  Back then I read them all so I don't remember which one it was.  But anyway one of the things they were doing was patching 230g FMJ bullets for the .45 ACP and shooting them out of a .45-70 with reduced loads.

I never could get paper patching to work so I gave up on the idea until recently.  I wanted to patch .308 bullets for my 7.7mm Arisaka.  I have a new .45-70 and not all the stuff to make bullets for it yet so I started with what I have.  If this works out, I'll be back to patching bullets for the Arisaka.

Tony

[geezerbiker]

First attempt isn't looking good.  The tape is very fragile and stretches and tears easily.  I haven't cast the bullets I want to patch for the .45-70 yet so I did the first trial on a .309 MO cast bullet from a box I bought last year.

I ran one through a .314 sizer die and the tape tore off one side.  I'll play with it more over the next few days.

Tony

[geezerbiker]

Well I cast some 230g .453 round nose bullets tonight and I decided to roll them between files like was mentioned earlier.  What I got was essentially knurled bullets .460 in diameter.  The one on the right is as cast and the one on the left got about 15 seconds of being rolled between a matching set of files.


This is always something I thought would work but I never tired it before.  Anyway I'm thinking perhaps I don't have to patch them now.  I'm going to knurl and load up 20 or 30, tumble to see how they shoot. 

I plan to tumble lube them in Alox.  I'm thinking the Alox should make a sufficient gas seal around the bullet.  If not, I'll clean the lead smears out of the bore and go back to square one...

Tony

[geezerbiker]

Well I took it to the next step today. This pic shows only one layer thick of teflon tape.



With only one layer it the bullet is only .001" larger but with 2 layers it measures out .004" larger so I'm thinking most of the first layer is pressing into the grooves.

I'm going to load a few of these then pull them with a kinetic puller to see how the tape survives being pressed into a case.  I'm also thinking the tape wouldn't survive running through a sizing die.  Right now with 2 layers I'm getting .463~.464" diameter...

Tony   

[geezerbiker]

Well I finally got to the range.  This group is the first 4 rounds I shot.



The other 20 or so rounds shot just as well.  I shot these off hand at 50 years while sitting in a folding chair.  After each shot there was a light snowing of teflon particles.  It took me a few shots to remember why.    I forgot to bring a small screwdriver so I couldn't adjust the Williams peep sight and these were also the first 4 shots out of a new rifle.

The bore is about as dirty as you'd expect for shooting 20 rounds powered by Unique.   It's dirty but not leaded.  These were light loads with 10 grains of Unique. 

There was more recoil than I expected but it wasn't punishing even with a hard plastic but plate.  I didn't plan for any penetration tests but there were some old targets left behind by some other shooters stapled to 1/2 plywood.  These blew right through these at 70 Yards.  At about 75 yards there were a few fir stumps turned over toward my direction making some nice rounds to shoot at.  I thought I missed until I got close up to check and I could see where my bullets had bounced off.  I would have skipped those shots if I had expected that.

I'll shoot the rest of these up when I get a chance and load some more with a hotter load to see how they do.  So far I think it's worthwhile...

Tony