What happened to the Democrat party?

[Questor]

I used to pick candidates, not a party. But since the Clinton years so many of the Federal candidates that the Democrats are putting into elections are so bad that I couldn't possibly vote for them. For example, John Kerry, an unbelievably bad candidate.  Then there's Joseph Lieberman, who I think is a good Democrat candidate, and the party hates him.

What has happened? I feel like there is no choice any more because the Democrat mainstream is too far to the left, and I consider myself left-leaning because I see value in what government can do. The Democrats seem to have crossed the line separating a government that can organize and maintain programs for the general good to an inclination toward socialisim, which I oppose.

[magooch]

The base has shifted way to the left, so the leftiest of the left has taken control.  The very left leaning media tries to give credibility to the ridiculous left and make them acceptable and it becomes a circle jerk where the media and the silly lefty politicians play off each other.  I remember a time when silly dolts like Nancy Pilosi, Howard Dean and Harry Reid wouldn't get the time of day from responsible news people.

[WylieKy]

A great question, and it can be aimed at both parties.  The problem is simple.  The parties have polarized and cemented and no longer negotioate.  If a Republican does something bad, the Democrats jump all over it and the Republicans try to defend or down play  it; and vice versa.  If a Republican proposes an idea, the Democrats are automatically against it; and vice versa.  The merits of the idea rarely come into play.

The trouble stems from each parties security in it's position.  The Republican party knows that most middle/upper middle class and half the upper class white and most white rural people will vote for them. The Democrats know that most minorities and urban peoples will vote for them.  There is no reason to take risks or think out of the box.

Our political situation has become still and stagnant, and as such we will see rotten canidates until some life is breathed into the process.

WylieKy

[IntrepidWizard]

It started with the Communist in the FDR years and smouldered up through JFK and broke out with the Johnson/Goldwater election when Johnson played the Hollywierd Atomic Bomb add and embolden the Socialist has taken over with the help of the long time communist in Hollywood ,read David Horowitz whos was once one as his parents were.There are few Democrats left most are Liberals and have left their party.

[nabob]

There is no room in the Democratic party for a moderate. Just ask Liebermann. That party has gone around the bend, I think. They are held hostage by the extreme liberals.

I think the same is true of the Republicans. They are held hostage by the most extreme conservatives.

Only parties such as the Constitution party or the Libertarian party can make any claim to represent the interests of a broad swath of America.

[Syncerus]

I think the Republican party is far more Centrist than the Democrats. In the Republican party you have people like Arnold, Guiliani, Romney and McCain; none of them could truly be labeled Conservative in the way that Rick Santorum is Conservative. On the other side of the aisle, the Democrats are absolutely dominated by fanatical Socialists ("Progressives" whatever that's supposed to mean).

As it so happens, I'm one of those dreaded "secular humanists", but I'm also a Capitalist who strongly supports 2nd Ammendment rights. My take on things is pretty simple: the Constitution and Bill of Rights does a pretty decent job of protecting me from religious loonies, but does nothing to protect me from Socialist loonies.

Therefore, I vote against the Socialist loons and count on the Bill of Rights to protect me from the people I elect.

[nabob]

I disagree that the Republican party can be labeled "centrist". To me, that implies "moderate" and the Republicans have been nothing akin to moderate under George Bush. Any party that so blithely legislates away essential freedoms cannot be called moderate in my judgment.

A pox on both the Dems and the Republicans.

[williamlayton]

It is very simple if you look at it.
there are no more statesmen only politicians who, in their desire to be elected, choose the party which will back them and in turn sell out to the demands of the party.
The party controls.
Blessings

[pills]

As it so happens, I'm one of those dreaded "secular humanists", but I'm also a Capitalist who strongly supports 2nd Ammendment rights. My take on things is pretty simple: the Constitution and Bill of Rights does a pretty decent job of protecting me from religious loonies, but does nothing to protect me from Socialist loonies.

Therefore, I vote against the Socialist loons and count on the Bill of Rights to protect me from the people I elect.

I am a religious loonie and find it funny that I agree with you.

[buffermop]

I think its about time the American voter takes his country back. It is time to clean out the barn and vote in a new congress. People who are independant thinkers with one goal, to bring back government to the people and not follow a 2 party system that just doen;t work.

[Matt]

I think its about time the American voter takes his country back. It is time to clean out the barn and vote in a new congress. People who are independant thinkers with one goal, to bring back government to the people and not follow a 2 party system that just doen;t work.

Oh how nice it would be to see fresh faces... but first you have to get America to wake up

Matt

[ironglow]

  Although there has been some polarization of both major parties, I do see the Democrats as the most polarized.

     Examples:
     
   A)  There are some pro-choice people in the Reps..and they speak openly and freely about it, however the very few Dems that may be pro-life are hushed up..not even allowed to speak from the podium at their conventions.

   B) Much to my dismay...Pres "W" Bush..tried to work in a bi-partisan way with.. of all people, Old Teddy. He went along (mistakenly) with Teddy on Teddy's "education" bill. Then, like many other Dems, as soon as the Pres looked for any kind of bi-partisan support in return, he was excoriated, called vile names and accused of all kinds of false things..

   C) When Clinton undertook the war in Bosnia-Herzgovina (backing the Muslims)..many of us could not understand just why in the world we must fight a people many of us had never even heard of....
 
    That war, between the Serbs and the Croats certainly was not our fight...but since our elected C in Chief sent our forces to war..the Reps backed the effort..America stayed united.
   
  The Reps did not try to undercut the war effort, endanger our fighting forces, call the C in C  ugly, vile names or run nutsy in the streets or praise the enemy..calling them " Freedom Fighters"...and noone (other than interns) were camped outside Clinton's "ranch"...LOL
 
     ...And Milosovitch sure didn't have any WMDs..LOL

   D) Many of us conservatives did not like Clinton and his depraved lifestyle and there was disatisfaction with it..but he didn't face charges of impeachment until he wagged that finger and swore  " i did not have sex....
 
     Ugly lies by a sitting pres to his administration, the congress and worst of all, the whole American people ...is serious.

   Still, although many of us were disgusted with him..there was not the rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth hatred for him that we  see by the far left.. for our president today..
 
     Although for honesty and forthrightness, neither major party takes an " Honest Abe " prize...
  In some things the Dems seem more hypocritical and even less honest than the Reps.
 
  When the Reps have a member that is outrageouisly perverted, they tend to run him off..Rep. Crane in 1983 had an affair with a female page..he was run off, more recently Foley was found to have written dirty e-mails  he was run off..a bit late , but nonetheless..run off..

   When the Dems Jerry Studds, in the same time frame as Rep Crane..had a sexual affair with a 17 yr old MALE page..he stayed on in congress with no admonition from his party..receiving  big  " hero's parade" for his perverse lifestyle back in Massachussetts.
    When Barney  Frank was found to have a prostitution ring running out of his basement in suburban DC..he simply laid the blame on his then current "boyfriend"...and didn't miss a beat with his Demo colleagues...

   THEN THE DEMS ARE ALL AGHAST WITH FOLEY'S DIRTY E-MAILS !!!          ...Please, spare me..

   As I see it from a minor party member view, although both major parties have many "warts", I am compelled to lean toward the Reps. because..

  1) The stock market at record highs, lowest unemployment in decades..due to the Rep TAX CUTS
   
     The Dems, from Sharpton & Pelosie to Dizzy Dean, have promised the return of high taxes.

   2) Without doubt..we know which major party truly "supports the troops".

 
   3) The Reps are not hostile to Christians..

   4) The Reps are not in bed with every freedom crushing, gun grabbing , Marxist advocate club in existance (e.g. the ACLU)

   5) The Reps are against the killing of babies on their birthday ( partial-birth abortion)

   6) The Reps seem to favor "wise use" of our wildlife and resources, not the" never-touch" policy of the Dems that puts millions of acres of recreational (hunting) land off limits for citizens and puts us at the mercy of foreign (Muslim) oil producers..

   7) The Reps are not gun grabbers, as the Dems are...Doubt it ? let me give you a few words..Spitzer, Schumer, Kennedy, Pelosie etc.

   Guess I could go on and on ..but even though there are problems with credibility in both their houses...it is not hard to decipher which is the more credible of the two...

[WmRoy]

Just remember that all votes for Democrats are to be cast on Wed this year.......... Republican candidates are voted for on Tues...............

God Bless!

[S.S.]

I truely wish a good strong third party would have come into play in this election !
Most politicians are in it for the Money they can earn or perks they can get while in office.
The Christian Right I believe was Used pretty badly in the last election for certain folks to get into office. These people Have not been what they said they would be ! Therefore I think the Christian Right should be sending Their own people, from their own party to be elected into political positions! I am talking hard nose Bible thumpers like (for the most part) the Folks who built our country's government in the first place. Not these politically correct money grabbing jerks we keep sending to Washington. Man, Politics disgust me ! Sometimes Anarchy does not look like such a bad Idea.. I mean that sarcastically of course  (just in case big brother is listening)

[nabob]

1) Pro-life Dems: http://www.democratsforlife.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=210&Itemid=0  My guess is that the pro-life Dems are about as numerous as the pro-choice Republicans

2) Bipartisanship? In this Congress? Don't make me laugh. They don't know the meaning of the word.

3) I remember the events of Bosnia a bit differently. I remember quite a few people in the Republican party claiming "wag the dog" and that the Kosovo war was an attempt by Clinton to distract from the impeachment hearings. Some "unity".

4) Baloney. Clinton faced investigations up the wazoo in an effort to keep him from exercising the mandates he won at the polls. It was a cynical attempt to use the investigatory machinery of government to keep an elected leader from leading. Get ready for payback if the Dems win. You partisans deserve each other.

Impeachment over having sex? What a joke. Clinton deserved to be impeached but NOT for having sex with Lewinsky. His impeachable offense came after he lied in a deposition regarding Paula Jones after the Supreme Court unanimously told him that he was not above the law and he had to answer her lawsuit. He denied justice to Paula Jones when he lied and in that moment, became a danger to us all. THAT was his impeachable offense, not having a depraved lifestyle.

5) Whether Studds and Frank should have been punished more neatly sidesteps the issue of whether Foley should be punished. That is a nice diversion but won't wash. I don't have a lot of use for any Dems but how they treat their party members is not really germane to how Republicans should treat theirs.

Which party is credible? Here's an answer:

NEITHER!!!!

[ironglow]

Nabob;
 
  1) Remember when Bob Casey was not even allowed to speak at the Demo convention..and they made no bones about it being because of his pro-life views
   And of course you statement reinforces just what I was saying..the majority of Dems are for abortion.. while the majority of Reps are against the killings.

   2)  Again..just what I was saying..the Prez tried bipartisanship...the Dems refused his honest efforts.

   3) Yes, we heard "wag the dog"  and with good reason, Clinton was choking interns about that time. ..But there were no cries for "cut and run", no moves to undercut our troops in the field no complaints from Reps, calling our troops "terrorists" or "cold blooded murderers"..

   4) I don't recall the investigations that may have been launched needlessly...if you are alluding tothe 400 odd FBI files on congress that were found on Hitlary's desk...I think that was not pursued hard enough. That is prima-facia evidence of extortion as I see it !

   5) The impeachment proceedings weren't about sex !!..
    Although it is despicable for a sitting Prez to turn the OVAL office into the ORAL office..I made it obvious that he was not brought into the impeachment situation until he wagged his finger and LIED to the whole American people.
   
   So..again we are in agreement..HE WAS IMPEACHED FOR LYING !!

   
  6)  Foley is OUT..he is home in disgrace..a bit different than Studds and Frank..wouldn't you say !!

   


                                AGAIN ...WHICH MAJOR PARTY:
 
  1) Truly supports the troops..

  2) Includes Sharpton, Pelosie, Dean and many others that have already endorsed raising our taxes..

  4) Has, primarily through tax cuts..brought the stock market to an all time high.

  5) Has brought unemployment to the lowest level in decades.

  6) Is friendly to Christians..and which one is hostile ?

  7) Is NOT in bed with the gun grabbers like the Brady bunch.. and chummy with such hostile-to-America groups as the ACLU..

  Is not in favor of killing babies on their birthday.

  9) is likely to keep federal lands open to hunters/recreation..

  10) Has no gun-grabbers of the likes of Pelosie, Kennedy, Schumer, and dozens of others..  ask the NRA, they're not politically stupid !

   

     ..And on your final rhetorical question..Which major partyn is credible ?..NONE..

    ..Nice job of spinning..but no luck..look at my previous post...I said "which is the MORE credible of the two"..

                     .. There IS a difference..
 
   
      I really don't expect coherent answers for those points (1 through 10)..I suspect most of the forum participants already know the truth ..

    I didn't mention any minor parties, even though I am a member of one..they just don't stand a chance federally..and I don't plan on throwing my vote away..

[nabob]

When one party has no credibility and the other has about enough credibility to stick in a thimble and still have room for a fat thumb, it seems like you are the one doing the spinning by saying "we're bad, but not as bad as THOSE guys!" In my estimation, you are.

1) So the majority of Dems are left wing radicals. So what makes the right wing radicals of the Republican party smell any better?

2) The President tried bipartisanship? Hardly. Bipartisanship for Bush has always meant doing it his way.

3) At least you gave up the silly notion that somehow, Republicans "united" behind Clinton during the Kosovo engagement. Thanks for giving me that one!

4) I see - the fact that nothing criminal was found was not a case that there was nothing to find, it was a case of not looking hard enough. You've looked at all the evidence that the FBI had in its possession and come to that conclusion, have you? Interesting. I don't think anyone else has had such access and clearance.

5) All politicians lie. Not all of them are impeachable offenses. The Republicans couldn't figure out which ones were a danger to us and which ones were not. Pretty sad. They went with what they thought would sell rather than what was an actual crime and got spanked for it in the Senate.

6) Foley is out because he deserved it. It isn't the end of corruption in the Republican party so let's not congratulate ourselves for doing the right thing for once, eh?

Which major party truly supports the troops? How about the one that wants them home now instead of getting more of them killed to no good purpose?

Raising taxes might be a tad bit more responsible than running up the nation's credit card. I'd prefer to cut spending and that's something NO Republican can credibly be in favor of, what with their recent record.

Please go take an economics course before claiming credit for unemployment. Spend some time on neoclassical economics. The recovery happened on the Republican watch but that's about all you can say. Just like the big boom of the 90's happened on Clinton's watch. Neither had any real hand in changing economic fundamentals.

I don't think I'd claim the Republican party is friendly to Christians. I think rather that they use Christians cynically for political gain. Rove's recent comments make the idea that Republicans love Christians a bad joke on Christians.

I don't think the ACLU is hostile to America. It is hostile to some ideas but not America.

Dems are in bed with the anti gun crowd, no doubt. Republicans are in bed with the lunatic fringe in the Christian right. Each party chooses its bedfellows strangely.

Abortion we agree on.

I see the Republican willingness to keep land open to recreation coupled with a desire to exploit those lands commercially to our detriment. That, to me, is a wash.

I love the appeal to belief that you use to try to make these arguments seem like they are more than they really are. You do that when you say "we all know which party is the good one and which is the bad one." That sort of logical fallacy can be read about at http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-belief.html

The only vote thrown away is the one where you don't vote for someone but against someone else.

[ironglow]

  So where does all that blather leave you ?

  I presume that means you have some kind of political party or slate that is clean as a whistle , sinless and perfect..without blemish..
 
  Sorry; most of the rest of us have not found either the perfect party or person...only one completely perfect
  person ever walked this earth...and he's not running for election !

   The rest of us realize that voting is a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils in some cases and in other cases, the one that more closely reflects our belief system....and of the two major parties, clearly the Reps do that for the greater part of hunter/ gun owner fraternity..

[JonJon]

The Dems simply have not figured out how to win with their candidates messages.  They need to either adjust their stance or their candidates to match those that Vote.

Proper representation wins out more often than not.  The rest is upto Leading adequately on the issues the publlc deems most important while their reps are in office.  Black-eyes take a while to go away.  A good reputation amidts those that vote sticks for a while too.  Most losing teams adjust at half-time for a reason....those that do not adjust properly can only hope the other team screws-up enough to validate their poor game-plan.....poor play on both sides of the ball is a called a bad game.

Among American policy makers it is called bad Politics.  Nixon nor Carter could adjust though their situations were totally different....  And I voted for both of them at least once.   They both did some great things.  Nixon got my generation out of Vietnam and Carter restored integrity to the OFFICE.  Both brought about needed changes in our country.  But, their respective contributions were not enough in the voters/congress's eyes when other issues came to bear.

Majoring on the major things is key.  Leave the noisy wing issues in the wing especially when they're nasty!

[Matt]

   The rest of us realize that voting is a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils in some cases and in other cases, the one that more closely reflects our belief system....and of the two major parties, clearly the Reps do that for the greater part of hunter/ gun owner fraternity..

I really wish you would not speak for me as it seems we have different stances here... I DO NOT think that it should be a lesser of the two evils. D.a.m.n.i.t  these are the elected officials. We choose who we put in office and if you are putting the lesser of the two evils in office you are still putting evil in the office.

Hey stop running your damn mouths about this side is better that side is worse and start looking at people and find out about the person.

The side a person stands on in politics should only matter if it is not the side of the citizens. Which I do not see either the dems or repubs really having the average American citizen in mind. And yet you all admit the same and condone it as the lesser of the two evils... Wake up and think for yourselves. Stop being a democrat or a republican and start being an American voter.   

Matt

[Matt]

If you only have 2 major sides you can always have a "right wrong"" this side that side" but when you have many sides you have to show why it is right or wrong.

We most all say and seem to agree that we disagree with things both sides does, so why continue to support that? Why not find like minded people as you and then find someone who also shares this mindset and has no allegiances to the 2 major sides and is willing to make a difference and then lets put these people in power...

After all this is what makes a democracy work… the citizens putting people in places of power to speak on their behalf.

If you are partisan to one side or the other and those who you speak for is opposite to that side then it seems their voice is not being heard...

Matt

[Matt]

The United States House of Representatives (or simply the House) is one of the two chambers of the United States Congress, the other being the Senate. Each state is represented in the House proportionally to its population, and is entitled to at least one Representative. The total number of Representatives is currently fixed at 435 by the Reapportionment Act of 1929,


The United States Senate is one of the two chambers of the Congress of the United States, the other being the House of Representatives. In the Senate, each state is equally represented by two members; as a result, the total membership of the body is currently 100. Senators serve for six-year terms that are staggered so elections are held for approximately one-third of the seats (a "class") every second year.


Ok here we have 535 people speaking on the behalf of over 300,000,000 hmm…

In the house we have a 689655 to 1 average ratio and in the senate we have a 3,000,000 to one ratio.

Do you really think that our diverse population can agree on that much to only need 535 people to represent them?

Maybe I ‘m just crazy…

Matt

[Matt]

Now many may argue that we can not afford to pay more members of congress…
Well with them giving themselves raises every year and a lifetime retirement equal to that of their exiting salary… your right we can not afford that…
So why the hell do we let them do it…
From the time a congressman is elected and enters into office they are guarenteed a lifetime salary.
Folks it is us not them in the end that have the final say… We put them there and it is time we replace most of them…

Matt

[buffermop]

Matt, you speak the truth.

[ironglow]

  OK Matt;

  So I am wrong to vote for the lesser of two evils..

  That implies that you have a candidate or party that is perfect and flawless..just waiting in the wings !

   Please; enlighten us poor, benighted individuals...who is this PERFECT candidate and party ?

[Matt]

what part of this statement did you not understand?

"We most all say and seem to agree that we disagree with things both sides does, so why continue to support that? Why not find like minded people as you and then find someone who also shares this mindset and has no allegiances to the 2 major sides and is willing to make a difference and then lets put these people in power..."

whats that oh you didnt read that part of the post... ok I understand well there it is for you now...

and no I do not have a "PERFECT" party or candidate

Matt

[nomosendero]

Some good comments Matt, I usually vote Republican because I may not have an independent to vote for. I cannot vote for a Socialist Democrap, period. But if I get a chance to vote for a GOOD persion in the Constitution or Tax Payers party, which is rare I
will do that. So I don't look at it as a lessor of two evils, because the Socialist Democraps are off the screen, I have observed their plartform & EVERYTHING they are for I am against. Too bad the Libertarians are well, Liberal & weak. I hope some other independants
worthy of a vote show up. Look's like I will have to vote for the Rep. running for Gov. here in AR., as the Tax Payers Party has no one running this time.

[Matt]

 nomosendero I am glad that you were able to get the point of the post, most do not or they dont read it one.

I have also found it hard to find a canidate that I feel is worthy of Gov. Rep and Dem are to me evil as it gets so who ever get mine will be an independent im sure...

Matt

[WmRoy]

Whether you guys like it or not........... a vote for a 3rd party is  (exception the meger Green Party) as good as a vote for a Democrat........... so if you can't bring yourself to vote for a Democrat, why would you vote for a third party candidate who hasn't a prayer.......... just so you can vote for the Democrat by default.............. it's as simple as that...............

I can't for the life of me understand that standing............... you just as well vote for the Democrat in the first place, or better yet, save the gas and stay home...............

[Matt]

What I can’t understand is that you can’t see you are answering your own question and explaining the dilemma at the same time... It is your mind set that holds back these other parties. We who vote for them and vote for a change are slapped in the face by those who want change but are afraid to step out of the party to get it. Hey each vote counts, if more votes went to the "wasted" side then it would not be wasted now would it...  Hey if you want change dont just talk about it... make it happen...

Matt