454 vs 500s&W

[RollTide]

S.B. 
While it is not illegal to make solid copper bullets, like the Barnes X bullet, it is illegal to make solid brass bullets.  Brass is much harder and has other qualities that make it quite a departure from copper as a bullet material.  Thanks for the suggestion, but in this case (no pun intended) information on Barnes bullets won't be helpful.  It seems like the person Lloyd refers to has found a legal way to make mostly brass bullets, which as Lloyd alludes to, is a significant advancement for those who wish to shoot solids.  The Barnes bullets on the other hand are perfect for expansion because of the softer copper material and I carry those bullets in my short barrel 45acp for self defense.  To give you a little history, the solid brass bullets were outlawed in the late 1980's because a solid brass bullet out of a 25acp over 1200fps will defeat most body armour.  Back in the early 1980's, a company called Personal Protection Systems formerly made solid brass rounds for most defense calibers, including a 1250fps 25acp round that I carried in an all stainless Bauer Baby Browning clone when it was legal.  The federal law specifically outlaws "armor piercing ammunition" as a handgun bullet "constructed entirely" from "tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, berylium copper, or depleted uranium." 27 Code of Federal Regulations § 178.11.

So I would still like to know where I can purchase some of those "punch" bullets.

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[RollTide]

454Puma,
Thanks for the suggestion.  I think the 454 is a geat round, but there is not enough of a power increase over the 445 Supermag to justify the purchase IMHO.  I carry a 4" Dan Wesson 445 Supermag in a hip holster, and feel confident I would also carry a 4" or 5" Smith X frame the same way.  Since I mostly carry these big revolvers in the field for hunting or protection, I prefer a bandoleer, cross-chest, holster that does not interfere with backpacks, belt packs, treestands, etc., but if I am just out for a day trip close to the truck, a belt holster works just fine, even for really big revolvers.

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[Lloyd Smale]

you can get them from Kelly shlepp Hes a helll of a nice guy and also makes the belt mountain base pins. his web sight is http://www.beltmountain.com/

[RollTide]

Thanks Lloyd.

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[454Puma]

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  445 Super mag ! I'm sorry but it doesn't even come close to a 454 Casull in the power factor! Isn't this also called the 45 Win Mag?

[Lloyd Smale]

two totally differnt cartidges and the 445 dw does run on the heals of a .454.

[Redhawk1]

RollTide
  445 Super mag ! I'm sorry but it doesn't even come close to a 454 Casull in the power factor! Isn't this also called the 45 Win Mag?

The 445 Super Mag is a 44 Cal round the 45 Win Mag is a 45 Cal. No they are not the same. The 45 Win Mag will equal a 44 Mag in performance, the 445 Super mag is right close to the 454 Casull in power.

[RollTide]

The 445 Supermag +P will duplicate 454 Casull factory loads up to the 300gr bullet range and maybe a little beyond, but handloading will extend the 454 a bit beyond what the 445 is capable of, not that an animal is going to know the difference between a 300gr bullet @ 1700fps out of the 445 or @ 1800fps out of the 454. 

After doing some investigation into the "punch" bullets Lloyd suggested, I think that one of those bullets out of the 445, the 454, or the 500 would penetrate completely through any game animal in NA side to side, heavy bones and all. On frontal shots on DG, I think any of the 3 rounds would crush large bone and still penetrate through vital organs and beyond.  With a hangun, that is about the best you can hope for.  The only advantage the 445 enjoys it that it will maintain more energy and flatter trajectory at long range assuming an equal start at the muzzle.  Since these brass "punch" bullets allow you to load at top speed for caliber without worrying about fractured or deformed bullets limiting penetration, it really extends significantly the practical power that can be put on target in the game field for all these calibers.  It also extends the power differential between the 500 and the 454 for the same reasons.

For raw power delivered on target up close (as in a DG protection situation), the 500 S&W loaded to potential, still has the 454 (and the 445 of course) beat by quite a margin, although all 3 will hold their own for pure penetration with top loads and best bullets.  The only question is do you need or want the extra power for what you do with the handgun.  If yes, then go for the biggest.  If I were facing an Alakan Brown Bear with a handgun, I would want every iota of advantage I could get.

Just my $.02

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