Author Topic: handi 303? (Read 2224 times)

PartsMan · « **on:** October 23, 2006, 09:09:26 AM »

I know there is not much call for it in the US but has anyone rechambered
a handi to 303 british?
These guns seem to like rimmed cartrages.
Between 30-30 and 308.
Could one of those "floped" 7.62x39 barrels be reamed.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** October 23, 2006, 09:54:21 AM »

That's been talked about, but I don't remember anyone actually doing it.

Tim

James B · « **Reply #2 on:** October 23, 2006, 10:02:26 AM »

I think you could rechamber a 30-30 and then use 308 bullets by just changing the bullet sizer plug in a 303 Die. That may be just a chamber ream. I am not positive on that so check with a good gunsmith.

You may also be able to do the same thing and use a 30-40 Krag set-up instead of the 303. This is one conversion that I am going to ask my Gunsmith about.

PartsMan · « **Reply #3 on:** October 24, 2006, 03:26:44 AM »

Wouldn't the 7.62x39 barrel already be the size you needed.
Seriously no one has tried for a 303 handi!!!!!!!!!
Its rimmed, you can get cheap ammo, and it has killed every animal on earth.

aulrich · « **Reply #4 on:** October 24, 2006, 12:37:02 PM »

I don't think any of the 7.62x39 guns made it to Canada or Austrailia where there would have been more interest in a handi 303. It's a good idea 303 brit would be well suited to system, but alas not all good ideas see the light of day.

Flash · « **Reply #5 on:** October 24, 2006, 12:50:10 PM »

Quote from: barr25-06 on October 24, 2006, 03:26:44 AM

Wouldn't the 7.62x39 barrel already be the size you needed.
Seriously no one has tried for a 303 handi!!!!!!!!!
Its rimmed, you can get cheap ammo, and it has killed every animal on earth.

I believe there is a pigmy rodent in the Amazon that still eludes the 303. Why not ream a 30/30 to an Ackley Improved and be done with it? Much better than the 303 and better bullet selection.

Stan in SC · « **Reply #6 on:** October 24, 2006, 01:05:42 PM »

The .303 uses a .310 bullet.That is the bore of the Handi 7.62X39 barrel making that barrel the ideal candidate for rechambering to .303British.The .303 and the .308WIN have such similar ballistics that unless one just wanted a .303British barrel it really isn't such a great choice to rechamber to.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** October 24, 2006, 01:19:37 PM »

Since the 7.62x39 is no longer available, it's pretty much a moot point even if it's considered a good idea.

Tim

Swampman · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2006, 12:24:34 AM »

Since I don't like the rimless cartridges in the Handi, I've thought about the .303. I think the .30-40 Krag would be a better choice.

PartsMan · « **Reply #9 on:** October 25, 2006, 03:36:41 AM »

Thanks guys.
It will probably ever happen but I just though it would be neat
to have near 308 performance yet be able to buy surplus ammo
and also have a rimmed cartridge.
I don't reload. I would rather spend my free time shooting.
Mybe someday I can buy a used 7.62 barrel cheap.
Most guys don't seem to be happy with them.

HillBillyFarmer · « **Reply #10 on:** October 25, 2006, 05:22:48 AM »

I'm with Swampman, I'm all for having a .30-40 Krag

mt3030 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 25, 2006, 07:19:18 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 25, 2006, 12:24:34 AM

Since I don't like the rimless cartridges in the Handi, I've thought about the .303. I think the .30-40 Krag would be a better choice.

It is a better choise, for the shooter that wants a 30-40.

I'm a fan of the 303. I talked to my 'Smith, and he told me to get a 30-30 extractor, and he would do the rechamber. I just haven't fallen over a used 7.62 yet.

In fact, he mentioned I could have one rechambered to 7.65 Argentine (another caliber I like), and use the original extractor. (Maybe I need to fall over two. Anyone have one or two they want to trade off or sell?)

By the way, this is the 'Smith at Capital Sporting Good, Helena, Montana. He is the reputable 'Smith who did my Handi 30-30 to 30-40 AI several years ago. He is even highly recommended by John Barsness.

Another plus of these older, tapered, low pressure rounds, is that you do not the accuracy and case sticking problems common to the 308s. (I know it is not popular to admit such on this forum, but I gave up on two Ultra 308s due to these issues.)

mt3030 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 28, 2006, 10:56:51 AM »

For anyone interested in a different type of rechambering for our Handis, check out this website. I spoke with them this morning. It's a small family shop, so you get to talk to the very guy doing the work. Since I've had no luck finding a reamer (7.65x 53) for my next project, this shop is the way for me to go. Pricing is excellant.

http://www.ottllc.com/

Fred M · « **Reply #13 on:** October 28, 2006, 01:47:34 PM »

mt3030 .
Chambering by EDM is a noval idea. EDM is not new but cutting chambers with this method is quite something.

Some time ago I came by this company before, but could nor remember the name.
Thanks for the info. The 303 is a bad case stretcher even in a bolt gun the brass does not last very long. Yeras ago we converted the 303 to the 303 Epps now you cooking with steam.

mt3030 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 28, 2006, 02:25:34 PM »

Fred:

Yes, I know about the 303 Epps. Quite popular down here with 303 fans. One of the reasons I'd like to have a Handi in 303 is to see if the stretching and short case life would be present in a rifle with the standard sporting chamber, as apposed to the looser military chambers. I've owned the SMLEs 1, 4s and 5s.

twocan · « **Reply #15 on:** October 28, 2006, 03:21:32 PM »

What about the primers on the 303 supluse ammo. I only get about 75% of 7.62x39 to go off. Can a man ajust this out to fire surplus only. I have a few thousand rounds that i bought for my handi

twocan · « **Reply #16 on:** October 28, 2006, 04:17:01 PM »

mybe this will help .308 to 7.62x54 $50 bucks http://www.precisionrifleworks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=408

Fred M · « **Reply #17 on:** October 28, 2006, 04:37:47 PM »

mt3030
I used to shoot in the with the civilian marksman ship team. We had access to the army armorer to select good barrels and bolt heads and tighter chambers.

Even with the selected chambers, min head space the cases did not last much longer when handloaded. Of course we used only GI ammo. For hunting some guys just pulled the GI bullets and replaced them with soft point. Of course 303 GI ammo
is all but dried up I think???

We played around with our own private 303 and found out that reloading was not all that great. Also the Mk4 were very accurate with the selected barrels.
Some of the MK4 were chambered for the 7.62 Nato and these were very desirable.

Of course the 303 Epps is a different story with the steep shoulder and little body taper. This cartridge is like a 30-06 in power. To gether in a MK4 a more rugged rifle rifle you could not think of. A 1"x 1" alu angle mounted to the left side made up the support for the weaver scope bases. Strong like ox. And most 308 bullets shot quite well.

A custom 303Epps chamber and a 308 barrel would work like dream. But what would be the point. A 30-06 will just do fine and they extract as good as any.

Swampman · « **Reply #18 on:** October 28, 2006, 04:55:28 PM »

I don't believe all these problems exist with the .30-40 Krag.

mt3030 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 28, 2006, 06:24:02 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 28, 2006, 04:55:28 PM

I don't believe all these problems exist with the .30-40 Krag.

You are correct. But the 30-40 was not designed with the same mindset as the 303 British. At the time of its birth, the British Empire spaned the globe. They needed a rifle and ammo with extrememly varied tolerances. Transport and storage in those day at times allowed water and high humidity to raise hell with brass cases. The rifles were chambered on the max side, so even swollen and corrided cases would chamber and still go bang. (By the way, that is also the reason you will find many of the Spanish and South American weapons with large chambers.) In those day, those countries were only interested in dependability, and did not really care what a bunch of handloaders would worry about 100 years down the road. Yes, the 30-40 had some advanages over the 303. Like 20 years of research and developement. But, how long did the 30-40 serve its country before being declared as obsolete? Now, how many years did the 303 British serve its country?

Please do not misunderstand me. I love both the 30-40 and 303. I can appreciate both for their place in military and hunting history. But like wives or girlfriends, lets not compare them too closely. Each is different but both will service very well.

Obviously from your continued posts, in what I interpret as a put down to the 303 (And please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), I have a question for you. Since you realize the virtues of the 30-40, have you rechambered a Handi to it yet? If not, put your money where your mouth is and catch up.

mt3030 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 28, 2006, 06:40:39 PM »

Quote from: twocan on October 28, 2006, 03:21:32 PM

What about the primers on the 303 supluse ammo. I only get about 75% of 7.62x39 to go off. Can a man ajust this out to fire surplus only. I have a few thousand rounds that i bought for my handi

twocan:

When I heard about the recessed primers on much of the 7.62x39 ammo I was disappointed too. I was one of the most vocal to get a Handi in that caliber. I could just see all that cheap (at the time) ammo allowing plinking with the kids and grandkids. What a bummer. Obviously someone in the research area missed that point. Although I have fired many rounds in SKSs and AKs, I had not realized the ammo had recessed primers to prevent slam fires. And of course that is a problem with the Handi. This problem has been discussed to some depth, and I do not know of anyone that has come up a good fix. I hope someone does. I would say the only answer to the Handi issue is commerial ammo, and of course then handloading to keep the price down.

But, with one being rechambered to 303 British, 7.62xR54 or 7.65x53, the problem would no longer be there. Those calibers have flush seated primers, just like other commerial ammo.

Hope this over long attempt to answer you question helps.

Airsporter · « **Reply #21 on:** October 29, 2006, 12:03:30 AM »

.303 surplus is long gone. 7.62x54 on the other hand is dirt cheap and plentiful.

Stan in SC · « **Reply #22 on:** October 29, 2006, 12:24:43 AM »

7.62X54R uses a .310 bore so a .308 bore conversion to that caliber would be a bad choice.

Swampman · « **Reply #23 on:** October 29, 2006, 12:46:32 AM »

I intended no put down of the .303 or any of the improved cartridges. I've owned 4 Krags, and found the cartridge to be an excellent round for the sportsman. I don't like rimless cartridges in single shots or lever actions. In the .30 caliber range, I believe the Krag is a better choice for a Handi rechamber. It uses standard .308 bullets, and the brass seems to hold up well from those I've talked to about the conversion. Being able to use factory ammo. is a plus over most of the improved .30s IMO.

I believe the thing that made the .303 great was the rifle it was chamberd in. The Enfields was the best battle rifle every created until the M1 Garand came along.

mt3030 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 29, 2006, 04:39:16 PM »

Quote from: Stan in SC on October 29, 2006, 12:24:43 AM

7.62X54R uses a .310 bore so a .308 bore conversion to that caliber would be a bad choice.

You are correct. Since the 7.62xR54 used a .310, a .308 is not ideal. Thats what makes the rechamber of the 7.62x39 to 7.62xR54 so perfect. They use the same .310.

Although as a side note, I have seen H&R Topper 30-30s rechambered to the 7.62xR54, and reloaded with .308 bullets. Even saw surplus ammo shot in these, with no apparentt ill effect.

PartsMan · « **Reply #25 on:** October 30, 2006, 04:36:51 AM »

Wow thank you for all the info and opinions.
Honestly I had never even heard of 30-40 or 7.62xr54.
Can I go to most stores and buy ammo?
I would probably just get a 308 barrel.
cheaper than rechamber.(plus used 7.62 price)
Still I think it would be a neat gun.

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** October 30, 2006, 08:34:42 AM »

.30-40 Krag is available in the better gun stores.

T2133 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 03, 2006, 04:07:47 PM »

Hello Everyone,
This is my first post on this forum. I own two NEF rifles. Both are rechambered .30-30 Win to .30-30AI and 7.62X54R. I have been considering a rechambering of the 7.62X39 barrel to 7.62X54R to take advantage of the rate of twist. I have always assumed the .30-30 is either a 1:10 or a 1:12, and am assuming the 7.62X39 is 1:9.5. Am I correct? I am currently using IMR 4350 under a Hornady 180 SP,at 48gr I chrono ~2340fps. I have only shot with open sights at fifty yards, without sign of keyholing, and is essentiailly on with the rear sight adjusted alll the way down. I don't predict increases in velocity much higher without incomplete powder burn due to the 22" barrel. The benefit up until incomplete powder burn is load density. I have some loaded up to 49.5gr, I'll give a report later. Anyway don't expect to shoot surplus ammo out of this rifle, it does not extract. Winchester ammo is the only maker the gunsmith who did this work could get to eject consistantly. That brass is not conducive to complete primer seating for reloaders (Win). I don't regard it as a safe practice to use due to primer dragging as the action is closed on NEF. Hope this is useful.

RemingtonMagnum · « **Reply #28 on:** November 03, 2006, 11:56:34 PM »

Quote from: twocan on October 28, 2006, 04:17:01 PM

mybe this will help .308 to 7.62x54 $50 bucks http://www.precisionrifleworks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=408

Do you have a phone number, Email, web site for David White? Please send it private if you do???

I Found it being up all nigh.

Don Jackson Remington Magnum/Ultramag

Mac11700 · « **Reply #29 on:** November 04, 2006, 06:40:43 AM »

MT3030:

You got a 30-40 krag and a 30-40 Improved in a Handi correct?...This one has always peaked my curiosty...What kinda of velocities are you getting with it with the various .308 bullets if you don't mind my asking...Also...was this done on a standard 30-30 Handi barrel...? Thanks

Mac