Author Topic: frustrated with my omega (Read 2048 times)

870 expressmag · « **on:** October 25, 2006, 02:01:56 PM »

I took my omega out tonight to get it sighted in for deer season.....now mind you with the load i am using..last year i was getting 3shot groups at 75yds under an inch......tonight i couldn;t get any consistancy at 50 or 100 yds..at first i was 5 inches high at 50 yds...and to the left..well i almost got it centered then it would go 4 inches the other way....i never did get it to come down....i was 5 inches high at 50yds and 5 inches high at 100yds...so i dialed the scope down 5 inches...it came down a half inch....and then when i went back to 50yds it was down about 3 inches.....i am using american pioneer powder FFFG in the pre-measured 100gr....340gr dead center saboted bullets.....winchester 209 primers....

not sure whats going on..already checked the scope screws and mounts...

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2006, 03:20:15 PM »

Try a different powder's and or sabot's. I never had good luck with American pioneer powder.

870 expressmag · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2006, 03:28:46 PM »

well i have some 50gr 777 pellets but i switched to APP because it's easy to clean up afterwards

NEKhunter · « **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2006, 03:43:28 PM »

I'll second that about APP. That powder put me in fits trying to shoot with any consistency. FWIW, check my post about a good load for the Omega. Good luck!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2006, 03:46:53 PM »

Quote from: 870 expressmag on October 25, 2006, 03:28:46 PM

well i have some 50gr 777 pellets but i switched to APP because it's easy to clean up afterwards

Some times a easy clean up is not worth the cost of accuracy. I don't find triple 7 hard to clean up at all either.

I hope you get a good combination worked out.

flintlock · « **Reply #5 on:** October 25, 2006, 03:48:39 PM »

If you are consistantly loading the same and swabbing between shots it seems like either you are flintching or the scope isn't holding zero...You stated that you moved the scope down 5 inches and it only moved a half an inch...Might try switching scopes...Have you changed any component of your load???

870 expressmag · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2006, 03:51:43 PM »

never switched components.....scope is good...because it only moved a little..but that was the shot...the next one went where it should have.....i don;t swab between each shot...but if i remember right last year i was spit patching between each shot.......but i tried it without this year because i won;t have time to spit patch in the field if i need a followup should i try my 777 pellets again?

870 expressmag · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2006, 04:17:20 PM »

by the way..all shots were shot from a lead sled...same thing i used last year to get the good shots

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2006, 04:31:27 PM »

I would try the triple 7

870 expressmag · « **Reply #9 on:** October 25, 2006, 04:45:26 PM »

now i only have 4 more dead center 340gr bullets left....to get more i have to go to cabelas, which i won;t be able to get there for a few days....should i stick with just switching powder and wait to get more bullets or go to the local shop and get some TC shockwaves to try.....maybe TC bullets in a TC gun?? worked when i was searching for sabot 12ga to use....remington copper solids in an 870 and i started getting MOA...not sure what to do...i am a semi-experienced rifleman but very green smokepoler!

Lane · « **Reply #10 on:** October 25, 2006, 05:22:28 PM »

It sounds as though your scope Reticle(Cross Hairs) is broken. This can and does happen. All the adjusting in the world won't work. Change scopes.

Or maybe your APP loads got subjected to water or moisture. Are these the ones in the pre-measured viles? Never used them myself, But I've shot pounds of APP and Shockeys Gold loose powder with out any problems year to year.

Or try a real good cleaning with a NEW bore brush and Butches Bore paste/USP Bore Paste and give her 30-50 strokes. Then solvent patch till all the paste is removed then dry patch till bone dry. Also, use NO lubes when firing APP. Wipe your bore with just alcohol swabs, and then 2 dry patches BEFORE loading powder.

vonfatman · « **Reply #11 on:** October 25, 2006, 07:04:44 PM »

I could not get APP powder to shoot consistent in my CVA Staghorn...drove me nuts.
Changed to 777 and my problems then became my own.

Lots of good suggestions here. I would suggest you buy a LOT of sabots or bullets
or whatever you plan to use because it sounds like you will be at it for a while unless
you happen to hit on to the culprit.

I'd buy at least a half-dozen packages of sabots...You don't want to run out as you
are eliminating the possible reason(s) for the erratic shooting.

I use Precision Rifle bullets (235gr) from Cabela's...I tried Power Belt and could NEVER
get a group with my Omega....but my buddy, he's shooting nice groups with them (he has an Omega too)
...go figure

Good luck.

Bob

flintlock · « **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2006, 04:47:46 AM »

If you feel good about the scope and alll screws are tight then I suspect its because you quit swabbing between shots, the barrel has to be conditioned the same way each time to get a good group...With a flintlock, in hunting conditions I can get by without swabbing because I am loading a patched ball inside a greased patch. This helps clean and lubricate the barrel when I load...With a inline the fouling in the barrel builds up as you shoot, sabots are not lubricated, so with each shot the condition of the barrel changes... When I shoot in competition I always clean my flinters between shots, it makes a difference...

When I am sighting in an inline I have a spray bottle with rubbing alcohol that I spray two patches with, they should be damp, not wet as this will build up in the breech plug and contaminate the next shot...I run both patches down the barrel and use both sides this is followed by a dry patch and then a lightly oiled patch followed by another dry patch this ensures that the barrel is the same from shot to shot....

I have sighted in several Omegas for friends of mine, I have had good luck with the 250 T/Cs and 90-110 grains of Goex FF or Pyrodex R-S...I don't care for pellets as they won't let you fine tune your load to the rifle...I also don't care for Triple Seven because of the crud ring...In addition, some Omegas have tight bores, after the season you might want to try the Harvester Crush Ribs or the MMP-24 sabots...I usuallly buy my sabots in bulk so I know they are the same...Sometimes the bullet/sabot packets come with different thickness/length sabots and this can make a huge difference in accuracy...

As far as getting off a quick second shot with a muzzleloader, forget it, make the first shot count, carry a small bottle of alcohol and oil along with a few patches and clean again before you load.

870 expressmag · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2006, 04:24:43 PM »

well i took it out again tonight....i took 777 pellets...the APP...the dead center bullets 340gr and the TC shockwaves i bought in 250gr.....started out with the dead centers and the APP..same load as yesterday...first and 2nd shots were not far from point of aim at 50yds..ok things are looking up..i was spit patching between shots and staying as consistant as possible.....3rd shot was a little high from the others but was probably me or the seating pressure of the bullet.....after that i loaded a shockwave without powder...so i had to pull the breech plug to get it out...well you can guess what happened next...anyone ever forget to put their drain plug in and remember after putting 5 or 6 qts of oil in the truck? yep..no breech plug...and i didn;t relize it until after i had a bullet in too...so i pushed them out...then the anti-seize lube had collected so much powder the breech plug wouldn;t screw back in...i packed up..came home..cleaned everything really good...breech plug goes in great now....organized my possible box..oiled the gun..put it in the safe..put the supplies on the shelf and there they will set..i am tired of this gun...anyone interested?

buffermop · « **Reply #14 on:** October 26, 2006, 05:59:30 PM »

It might be worth it to rebore sight the scope.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #15 on:** October 27, 2006, 09:46:50 AM »

I SEE YOUR IN MICHIGAN! SE ME TOO. PM ME WE WILL GO TO THE RANGE IL LGET YOU HOOKED UP...... IF NOT I WILL BUY IT................

SURVEYOR · « **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2006, 11:15:42 AM »

You need to bed that Omega! You action is wondering all over in you stock. Andy Hass had the same problem with his Omega until he bedded her. Now he's got a tack driving rifle. You can try all the bullets, powder, scope and mounts you want. But until you bed the rifle action in the stock your groups will wonder all over the place.

get this kit,

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=790049

it has everything you need. Reas this,

http://riflestocks.tripod.com/bedding.html#TOP

870 expressmag · « **Reply #17 on:** October 27, 2006, 12:11:46 PM »

a friend suggested 100gr of powder wasn;t enough to push such a heavy 340gr bullet and make it accurate...does this have anything to it or is it just an opinion?

SURVEYOR · « **Reply #18 on:** October 27, 2006, 12:24:04 PM »

Quote from: 870 expressmag on October 27, 2006, 12:11:46 PM

a friend suggested 100gr of powder wasn;t enough to push such a heavy 340gr bullet and make it accurate...does this have anything to it or is it just an opinion?

just an opinion

I push a 460 grain conical with 85 grains of ffg with great accuracy and killing power. I seem to remember the Omeag has a 1:28 twist tube. You're good there.

Once again you can try all the little magic tricks you want. That rifle needs bedding. And that's a lot cheaper to do than burning and wasting all that powder and bullets.

poncaguy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 27, 2006, 02:28:51 PM »

I use 10 grains FFG of American Pioneer, 250 Grain Bonded shockwaves in my Omega, very good accuracy, my 2nd shot is 3 777 pellets, they shoot to same POI.

AndyHass · « **Reply #20 on:** October 27, 2006, 02:41:04 PM »

Yes, mine shifted the POI a bit once it started heating up. If I recall, it shot tight groups but shifted quite a bit every time I pulled it from the stock for cleaning....I decided it was due to varying pressure due to the action screws. Surveryor gave me some tips and I bedded it on aluminum pillars, now it shoots sub-MOA past 300 yds and nearly MOA at 400 yds.

I'd check the scope first, and the powder, though.

poncaguy · « **Reply #21 on:** October 27, 2006, 02:46:42 PM »

that was 120 grains of ffg ap, not 10

SURVEYOR · « **Reply #22 on:** October 27, 2006, 03:09:02 PM »

Quote from: AndyHass on October 27, 2006, 02:41:04 PM

Yes, mine shifted the POI a bit once it started heating up. If I recall, it shot tight groups but shifted quite a bit every time I pulled it from the stock for cleaning....I decided it was due to varying pressure due to the action screws. Surveryor gave me some tips and I bedded it on aluminum pillars, now it shoots sub-MOA past 300 yds and nearly MOA at 400 yds.

I'd check the scope first, and the powder, though.

They're not going to lissen Andy!!! Some where there's a magic load and bullet that will make all go away.

Scope mounts, as far as bases and ring will cause problems. Also scopes. Some rifles like a certian powder type,volume, and bullet. I know mine do. But a bedded rifle will give constant groupings.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #23 on:** October 27, 2006, 06:42:50 PM »

Iam going to look at it and see whats what first since i have 2 omegas and my ultimates as well.

lets get th egun in our hands first then decided what it is it may be wandering but not al lof them have that issue out of 5 omegas i have had in my hands in the past 2 years not a one needed bedding ok!..

and not that i doubt andy since we have talked before about that as well.......

iam in pm with him and hopefully he wil get to the range with me and i can see from there.....

it couldbe his bullet powder ocmbo it could be a wander we shall see.

870 expressmag · « **Reply #24 on:** October 28, 2006, 03:34:10 AM »

well i would like to know how to bed a rifle...but i have never done it....i will let deputy check it out and go from there

also..this rifle is one of the first onces that came out...i bought it maybe 4 or 5 years ago and probably only shot it about 50 times..maybe if that! it still have the long fiber optic rear sight instead of that new rear sight that looks like it stands taller

870 expressmag · « **Reply #25 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:59:27 PM »

went out to the range yesterday...had a lot more time than before..wasn;t racing to beat nightfall....used win 209 mzzldr primers....2 777 50gr pellets...a 250gr TC shockwave and spit patched and dry patched between each shot...i am now on the bullseye at 100yds!! i was more than excited.....and i switched to the teflon tape on the breech plug method...works great!!

geezer7691 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 06, 2006, 10:45:54 PM »

The only Omega I've had anything to do with won't shoot when the barrel heats up. And that doesn't take much shooting. It heats up much faster than my Pro Hunter. But the Pro Hunter barrel's alot heavier and it's fluted.

daddywpb · « **Reply #27 on:** November 07, 2006, 10:34:14 PM »

I use two 50 grain Pyrodex pellets and a 295 grain Powerbelt in my Omega. I swab between shots with alcohol. It will shoot into 1 " at 50 yards and about 2" at 100 yards (2x7x32 scope - more magnification would help my shooting). I have not rebedded the barrel, or done any other work to it at all. I couldn't even stay on a 12"x12" paper target at 50 yards with APP powder, and 777 leaves a lot more fouling in my rifle than Pyrodex. Experiment a little before you blame the rifle. I can't recommend Powerbelts enough - easy to load, and the performance on game is amazing. I have seen about 10 deer hit with 295 grain Powerbelt HPs. None took more than a couple steps. I have read a lot of Powerbelt bashing, but in my experience it is not true.

simonkenton · « **Reply #28 on:** November 08, 2006, 02:50:33 AM »

I am glad you got your problem cleared up. Sounds like American Pioneer Powder was the primary problem, along with not patching between shots.
You should do this at the range, in order to get your most accurate groups, to see what the rifle will do.
In the field, maybe you won't be able to patch after a shot, maybe you will.
Amen to the teflon tape on the breech plug threads. I used that grey grease for a while, what a mess!

poncaguy · « **Reply #29 on:** November 08, 2006, 04:17:57 AM »

I shot a nice 7 point, 155lb field dessed buck at 100 yards with my Omega. 125 grains FFG AP powder, 250 grain bonded Shockwave. Dropped instantly, went in neck, exited far shoulder.