Author Topic: Waco... Whats your thoughts? (Read 15597 times)

rex6666 · « **Reply #60 on:** April 21, 2008, 04:40:32 AM »

Ironglow
when i said i didn't think their was a cover up, was because it seemed to me any way that every thing
was pretty obvious. They could have just sit their and waited it out, they wanted in the compound Right
now. Was it just me or was the latter story about the little Cuban boy being kidnapped, and the sent back to Cuba, seemed to get more and longer play

ironglow · « **Reply #61 on:** April 21, 2008, 05:18:23 PM »

Rex;
The Elian Gonzales thing took about a week. Many of us could see "the writing on the wall", since with a Democrat admin in Washington, and the left's propensity to
cater to every leftist/Marxist dictator, we figured little Elian's goose was cooked. That the Clinton admin would take the boy from freedom slam him back into the
same Communist quagmire he and his mom had so recently escaped from.
This is another of those Florida cases that is much like that woman that was starved to death in Florida while she lay comatose. The left was nearly all in favor of starving
her, while the right wanted another chance for her.
With Little Elian, the right wanted him to stay free, while the left most all wanted him shipped back to the slave state. On April 13, Clinton's atty gen decided to send
little Elian packing..on the 22nd the raid commenced..it only took a few minutes.

At Waco, the feds laid seige to the compound for some 51 days, while the media happily stayed a mile away..when the assault finally commenced it went fairly rapidly,
especially after the fires were started..

Below, see a hero, sticking the muzzle of a rifle in little Elian's face...that little boy was really terrified, but I guess Reno got a chuckle..

Cabin4 · « **Reply #62 on:** April 22, 2008, 05:21:29 AM »

Is anyone forgetting that Elina's Father was still in Cuba and wanted his son returned? Communist country or not, the kids father deserves to have custody of his son. I have a son and I don't think some foreign country should determine if he can live with me or not!!

Life in Cuba may suck and Castro is an azz-hole, but that does not give us the right to keep children from their parents because of those political reasons. As much as I hated the Clinton administration and that worthless Attorney General (Reno), this is one they got correct.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #63 on:** April 22, 2008, 03:21:20 PM »

Quote from: cabin4 on April 22, 2008, 05:21:29 AM

Is anyone forgetting that Elina's Father was still in Cuba and wanted his son returned? Communist country or not, the kids father deserves to have custody of his son. I have a son and I don't think some foreign country should determine if he can live with me or not!!

Life in Cuba may suck and Castro is an azz-hole, but that does not give us the right to keep children form their parents because of those political reasons. As much as I hated the Clinton administration and that worthless Attorney General (Reno), this is one they got correct.

That's more or less the way I feel about that one. The politics of a nation shouldn't keep a father from having his son.

As for Cuba, they aren't really worse off than most other S. American nations... at least you don't have the drug cartels running Cuba, bombing shopping malls and kidnapping people. I personally think our embargo against Cuba is hypocritical and pointless. We trade with China, and they're every bit as bad if not worse. The communist regime in Cuba probably would have crumbled ages ago if they didn't have the "Evil Yanquis" to blame for all of their problems.

ironglow · « **Reply #64 on:** April 23, 2008, 01:36:24 AM »

No plausible reason for them to blame the "evil Yanquis" for their problems..we haven't had anything to do with them for nearly 50 years..that is, except for
a few Commie sympathizers that went down to "suck up" and pretend to harvest sugar cane....

Matt · « **Reply #65 on:** April 23, 2008, 09:20:52 PM »

Seeing how this thread seems to be getting a little off course I thought I would step in and add something else to pot... Do you know where all the Waco Files were kept?

OKC in the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building... hmmm.... just something else to ponder.

also did any of you remember reading an article like this?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE3D71E31F933A15757C0A963958260

Ruskin · « **Reply #66 on:** July 17, 2008, 09:46:32 AM »

Since the OK bombing is in this thread, I will comment on two or three points.

I was watching a life feed from the bombsite the next morning, and a reporter started interviewing a young mother, who had lost a child. The statements she made about not being told when others knew made the reporter step back. I wanted to see it again in the next news cycle, and it never ran again.

A friend with insrugency experience asked why weren't the pople tearing or rubbing their eyes. That much NH 3 would have caused problems with the eyes and nose.

There have been reports of an olive skin colored man with a military being that had been with McVeigh. He was no where to be found.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #67 on:** July 17, 2008, 10:22:28 AM »

If you read deep enough you will find the leader a Waco would run everyday , him and followers ask if the could help the agents that set up the observation post if they needed any help . It appears there was ample opportunity to serve a warrant .
I had a chance to talk with Randy of Ruby Ridge and he was not a perfect citizen by his own admission but he deserved much better !
The part that both share is the Govt. cover up and the people who broke the law never paid !

AtlLaw · « **Reply #68 on:** July 17, 2008, 12:57:55 PM »

To bad I didn't see this thread when it started. Waco, Ruby Ridge and the Gonzales case are things I could really get into!

But I'm sure bro. Shootall and others covered my feelings well.

Dee · « **Reply #69 on:** July 17, 2008, 03:29:14 PM »

Many movie rental places have the second documentary on Waco. At least one of the officers interviewed in this second documentary I knew, and it was to me what it appeared to be. It should be REQUIRED WATCHING for ALL Americans
An attempt to make a statement by the ATF, and they initially got their butts kicked. It is a shame when our government is using blackhawks to strafe American citizens homes, knowing there are women and children inside. It still makes me mad when I think about. We Texans should have gone down there and stopped it, before it got so far. Shame on us!

ironglow · « **Reply #70 on:** July 18, 2008, 01:11:05 AM »

Right Dee;

That picture we all recall of the "heroic" men in black crouching on the roof of the compound..suddenly bullets come through a wall, nearly wiping them out..
That clip starts as the MIB are crouching there, a few seconds earlier their own buddies had entered the part of the building where the shots came from..
Clearly, it was half the keystone cops..firing back at the other half !

That film also shows one of them apparently shooting himself in the leg when he tried to "quick-draw" while climbing a short ladder !

AtlLaw · « **Reply #71 on:** July 18, 2008, 03:05:51 AM »

Did anyone see that awful, shamefully inaccurate "made for TV" movie about this crime? Something about some female agent whose heroic agent brother was killed during this incident. There was also one or maybe it was the same one from the perspective of a guy who was a member of the Davidians. Or has that already been discussed? $:-\$

TribReady · « **Reply #72 on:** July 18, 2008, 05:19:28 AM »

I agree with a post way back that this was a "trial run" for the Gov't

They used these relatively small cases (Waco, RR, Elian) to judge public perception/reaction to these types of affronts to the Constitution. The media was used to paint the correct picture of what was supposedly going on. It was also a training excercise for the MIB on how to handle such situations (which they failed miserably). I feel that the Gov't learned alot from how this all played out and we'll see things like this in the near future, but on a larger scale.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #73 on:** July 18, 2008, 08:04:44 AM »

This past spring I was in Idaho and hunted along the property line of what was called Ruby Ridge. Met some locals that personally; knew Randy & family. The detailed story, which I & my son listened to at leanth is extremely interesting and a classic example of the Clinton admins desire to take over peoples way of life. Randy got final justice and was paid a large sum by the feds to go away.

Classic example of that idiot Janet Reno that ran the justice department for Clinton. Murdering innocent babies, women and young children was just fine with that BBIITTCH because the Weavers had guns.

What do you think its going to be like when Obama gets elected? He will put some left wing nut bag case to run the justice department to pick-up were Reno left off.

Dee · « **Reply #74 on:** July 18, 2008, 09:00:51 AM »

McCain has voted ANTI-GUN over 71% of the time since his election to the Senate (over 20 years of anti- 2nd amendment) . He has PROVEN HIMSELF to be a LIBERAL over and over, yet everyone is acting like Obama is the REAL BOOGER MAN.

McCain was AGAINST off shore drilling until the uproar, is still against Anwar, and is STILL against shutting down the borders. The ONLY DIFFERENCE between he and Obama, is that he is SMOOTHER in his flip flops.
That ANYONE could feel safer with McCain after his PROVEN TRAC RECORD is beyond me. Everyone seems to be fully AWARE of whom and what Obama "IS". The REAL MYSTERY is why they can't see what McCain "IS".

But the harpers, continue to harp.

Now BACK TO WACO. As I have said, and others also. Koresh could have been picked jogging or at his FREQUENT trips to Wal-Mart. The sheriff of the that county did everything in his power to prevent the raid but, the ATF WOULD NOT LISTEN to him.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #75 on:** July 18, 2008, 09:34:47 AM »

Quote from: Dee on July 18, 2008, 09:00:51 AM

McCain has voted ANTI-GUN over 71% of the time since his election to the Senate (over 20 years of anti- 2nd amendment) . He has PROVEN HIMSELF to be a LIBERAL over and over, yet everyone is acting like Obama is the REAL BOOGER MAN.
McCain was AGAINST off shore drilling until the uproar, is still against Anwar, and is STILL against shutting down the borders. The ONLY DIFFERENCE between he and Obama, is that he is SMOOTHER in his flip flops.
That ANYONE could feel safer with McCain after his PROVEN TRAC RECORD is beyond me. Everyone seems to be fully AWARE of whom and what Obama "IS". The REAL MYSTERY is why they can't see what McCain "IS". But the harpers, continue to harp.

Now BACK TO WACO. As I have said, and others also. Koresh could have been picked jogging or at his FREQUENT trips to Wal-Mart. The sheriff of the that county did everything in his power to prevent the raid but, the ATF WOULD NOT LISTEN to him.

I don't see the McCain change on off shore drilling as a flip flop. When oil was cheap, why not buy it from someone else instead of using OUR reserves. This is a simple buying decision that should change as the situation for oil changes.

McCain record on 2nd amendment is bad. But he only has more anti votes becasue Obama has only been in the senate for a couple of years. McCain been there longer and has longer track record to pick on. Side by side, Obama would out vote him as the anti 2nd Amendment king by far.

Back to Waco: Yes the ATF which from a law enforcement perspective is directed by the DOJ, wants these things settled in the public spot light to send a deep message to all of us. They rather pick people up at there compounds becasue they KNOW, these people are likly to put up a fight. And since so many Americans are stupid, they think this is a good thing.

Dee · « **Reply #76 on:** July 18, 2008, 01:43:46 PM »

Quote from: cabin4 on July 18, 2008, 09:34:47 AM

Quote from: Dee on July 18, 2008, 09:00:51 AM
McCain has voted ANTI-GUN over 71% of the time since his election to the Senate (over 20 years of anti- 2nd amendment) . He has PROVEN HIMSELF to be a LIBERAL over and over, yet everyone is acting like Obama is the REAL BOOGER MAN.
McCain was AGAINST off shore drilling until the uproar, is still against Anwar, and is STILL against shutting down the borders. The ONLY DIFFERENCE between he and Obama, is that he is SMOOTHER in his flip flops.
That ANYONE could feel safer with McCain after his PROVEN TRAC RECORD is beyond me. Everyone seems to be fully AWARE of whom and what Obama "IS". The REAL MYSTERY is why they can't see what McCain "IS". But the harpers, continue to harp.

Now BACK TO WACO. As I have said, and others also. Koresh could have been picked jogging or at his FREQUENT trips to Wal-Mart. The sheriff of the that county did everything in his power to prevent the raid but, the ATF WOULD NOT LISTEN to him.

I don't see the McCain change on off shore drilling as a flip flop. When oil was cheap, why not buy it from someone else instead of using OUR reserves. This is a simple buying decision that should change as the situation for oil changes.

McCain record on 2nd amendment is bad. But he only has more anti votes becasue Obama has only been in the senate for a couple of years. McCain been there longer and has longer track record to pick on. Side by side, Obama would out vote him as the anti 2nd Amendment king by far.

What difference does it make that his bad voting record on the 2nd ammendment is LONGER than Obamas' because he has been there longer? That ideaology is INSANE. Good Lord! That doesn't even make sense. What it really shows that he has been OUT TO GET the 2nd Ammendment LONGER THAN OBAMA! You are BLINDLY trying to defend McCain on this issue when there IS NO DEFENSE!
As far as Obama out voting McCAIN on anti-2nd Ammendment issues. Once again! Good Lord! McCain has given you an UNBELIEVEABLE unbelieveable AMOUNT OF PROOF that for the most part he is anti-2nd Ammendment. Your annalogy of Obama I suspect is quite possible but, at this point, PURE SPECULATION on out voting McCain on the issue.
This TRACK RECORD you speak of SPEAKS VOLUMES about McCAIN, and his feelings on the Bill of Rights and the Constitution! McCain's TRACK RECORD on the 2nd Ammendment should be SCREAMING at every gun owner on this website to NOT VOTE McCAIN. With McCain in the White House and Obama in the Senate, they should have no problem at all getting GUN LEGISLATION PASSED. Or vise-versa for that matter.

BACK TO WACO INDEED!

Back to Waco: Yes the ATF which from a law enforcement perspective is directed by the DOJ, wants these things settled in the public spot light to send a deep message to all of us. They rather pick people up at there compounds becasue they KNOW, these people are likly to put up a fight. And since so many Americans are stupid, they think this is a good thing.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #77 on:** July 18, 2008, 02:17:58 PM »

Bush hasn't been too bad about attacking the people (except for those Mormons down in TX) but he's laid the groundwork for a full-scale Democrat attack on gun owners, religious folks who live in "fortified compounds" and pretty much anyone who doesn't shut up and go to work in People's Tractor Factory #159 every day like a good citizen.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #78 on:** July 18, 2008, 02:20:10 PM »

Quote from: Dee on July 18, 2008, 01:43:46 PM

Quote from: cabin4 on July 18, 2008, 09:34:47 AM
Quote from: Dee on July 18, 2008, 09:00:51 AM
McCain has voted ANTI-GUN over 71% of the time since his election to the Senate (over 20 years of anti- 2nd amendment) . He has PROVEN HIMSELF to be a LIBERAL over and over, yet everyone is acting like Obama is the REAL BOOGER MAN.
McCain was AGAINST off shore drilling until the uproar, is still against Anwar, and is STILL against shutting down the borders. The ONLY DIFFERENCE between he and Obama, is that he is SMOOTHER in his flip flops.
That ANYONE could feel safer with McCain after his PROVEN TRAC RECORD is beyond me. Everyone seems to be fully AWARE of whom and what Obama "IS". The REAL MYSTERY is why they can't see what McCain "IS". But the harpers, continue to harp.

Now BACK TO WACO. As I have said, and others also. Koresh could have been picked jogging or at his FREQUENT trips to Wal-Mart. The sheriff of the that county did everything in his power to prevent the raid but, the ATF WOULD NOT LISTEN to him.

I don't see the McCain change on off shore drilling as a flip flop. When oil was cheap, why not buy it from someone else instead of using OUR reserves. This is a simple buying decision that should change as the situation for oil changes.

McCain record on 2nd amendment is bad. But he only has more anti votes becasue Obama has only been in the senate for a couple of years. McCain been there longer and has longer track record to pick on. Side by side, Obama would out vote him as the anti 2nd Amendment king by far.

What difference does it make that his bad voting record on the 2nd ammendment is LONGER than Obamas' because he has been there longer? That ideaology is INSANE. Good Lord! That doesn't even make sense. What it really shows that he has been OUT TO GET the 2nd Ammendment LONGER THAN OBAMA! You are BLINDLY trying to defend McCain on this issue when there IS NO DEFENSE!
As far as Obama out voting McCAIN on anti-2nd Ammendment issues. Once again! Good Lord! McCain has given you an UNBELIEVEABLE unbelieveable AMOUNT OF PROOF that for the most part he is anti-2nd Ammendment. Your annalogy of Obama I suspect is quite possible but, at this point, PURE SPECULATION on out voting McCain on the issue.
This TRACK RECORD you speak of SPEAKS VOLUMES about McCAIN, and his feelings on the Bill of Rights and the Constitution! McCain's TRACK RECORD on the 2nd Ammendment should be SCREAMING at every gun owner on this website to NOT VOTE McCAIN. With McCain in the White House and Obama in the Senate, they should have no problem at all getting GUN LEGISLATION PASSED. Or vise-versa for that matter.

BACK TO WACO INDEED!

Back to Waco: Yes the ATF which from a law enforcement perspective is directed by the DOJ, wants these things settled in the public spot light to send a deep message to all of us. They rather pick people up at there compounds becasue they KNOW, these people are likly to put up a fight. And since so many Americans are stupid, they think this is a good thing.

Dee,

Will you allow yourself to understand this?

By your own numbers, McCain has voted 71% of the time in favor of gun control legislation over his tenere in the senate. I contend that if Obama was there over the same time period, he would have voted in favor 100% of the time. So the point is this, which of these two morons who would you rather have in the white house? I say McCain. Thats the only point I've made on this subject and your trying to turn this simple point into me being a liberal with a warped sence of ideology

I'm not making any appologies for McCain. He voted 71% of the time wrong in my opinion and Obama would have voted 100% wrong.

If McCain has agreed to support off-shore drilling, then that 100% better then Obama. He has NOT agreed to this. McCain is wrong on the rest as well. So who would you rather have in the white house of these 2 morons based on this point? McCain.

The other point you did not mention is Nuk power. McCain is for this and Obama is not. So McCain is right and Obama is wrong.

Obama is deep in the pocket of the evironmental nazis.

Dee · « **Reply #79 on:** July 18, 2008, 05:55:32 PM »

I contend that if McCain is president, and I believe he will be, that if Obama or ANY OTHER Senator gets a bill on gun control thru, McCain will sign it. His record on the issue speaks for itself.
I had rather NEITHER of them be president. I see little difference in the two. McCain conceding to allow drilling off shore is a PUBLIC OPINION statement. Read the facts on how long it will be before offshore drilling has ANY affect on the present situation. There are very few such drilling rigs even available to drill. It was a SAFE STATEMENT.
According to experts, the cost of building a rig, and getting it set up OFFSHORE, will be over $6,000,000.00 PER RIGG.
McCain is a wolf in sheep's clothing. He is PART OF THE REASON, we are here in this present situation. His voting record PROVES this. His voting record PROVES he is a liberal. A liberal is a liberal. We aren't developing our own oil fields because of McCain and others like him, voting to make it illegal.

I'm outta here, this isn't even the topic of the tread. It's a useless endeavor anyway.

Matt · « **Reply #80 on:** August 20, 2008, 07:28:55 PM »

mcain nor obama will be pres.... hide and watch....

but that is way off topic...

Dee · « **Reply #81 on:** August 21, 2008, 01:52:20 AM »

It is way off topic, BUT! Explain your thought. It sounds interesting.

lrs · « **Reply #82 on:** August 21, 2008, 06:53:50 AM »

I did not know they HAD offshore drilling rigs in Waco. Now there's a new conspiracy.

Dee · « **Reply #83 on:** August 21, 2008, 09:40:23 AM »

See Irs you've learned something new. Some drilling is as we speak going on off shore in Waco. The rigs are right in the middle of the Brazos River. Of course in places the Brazos is only about 40 or 50 feet wide, but it is sorta of off shore.

Graybeard · « **Reply #84 on:** August 21, 2008, 09:43:14 AM »

Quote from: Dee on August 21, 2008, 01:52:20 AM

It is way off topic, BUT! Explain your thought. It sounds interesting.

Remember his post a few days ago about King George?

Dee · « **Reply #85 on:** August 21, 2008, 09:44:44 AM »

Nope! Didn't look back far enough. I'll check.

Dee · « **Reply #86 on:** August 21, 2008, 09:48:58 AM »

Uh, I had forgotten.

Matt · « **Reply #87 on:** August 21, 2008, 05:10:53 PM »

Dee, all one needs to do is look at all the new laws that are set to go on the books and the Presidential Directives and Orders that are now on the books thanks to GW and one should be able to deduce that there is but one reason why.... cause after Marshall Law he will not have to step down.

Long Live King George....

bilmac · « **Reply #88 on:** August 21, 2008, 06:01:45 PM »

Such was the Clinton Administration.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #89 on:** August 21, 2008, 06:30:57 PM »

Quote from: bilmac on August 21, 2008, 06:01:45 PM

Such was the Clinton Administration.

And such is the Bush administration, and such will be the Obama or McCain administration. We're on a slow march towards totalitarian socialist dictatorship, and nobody really cares enough to stop it.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; I'd love to see this nation (and indeed this entire world) cleansed by fire. 100 million people should be inhabiting this world, right now we're at 6.6 billion. Like any out of control population, we will be kept in check. Soon nature/God/random chance will bring the population into balance. I, for one, will welcome the fresh start.