Author Topic: Hornady LEVERevolution Ammo Question (Read 3388 times)

jvs · « **on:** October 29, 2006, 12:36:35 AM »

I admit to being a little behind the times when it comes to something new for Lever Guns. I was in a gunshop today and I heard a conversation about this Ammo put out by Hornady. Before I knew it, I was in the middle of the conversation.

It seems that everyone who has tried this ammo in a Lever Action Rifle has nothing but praise for the way this ammo performs. Even the gunshop owner says he has a hard time keeping it in stock since word got out as to it flies. The gunshop owner also has praise for this stuff, he tried it himself. I ended up walking out with a box of 200gr .35 Rem Pointed ammo for a tubular magazine.

I figured I would find out here what devotees of Lever Action rifles think of Hornady LEVERevolution ammo next.

What's up with this stuff?

Dillohide · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2006, 11:21:14 AM »

I've got both my 30-30 Marlins sighted in with it. One's an early 336 with 24" barrel and the other a 1976 carbine. They both shoot it very well ... no better than my handloads however. The reason I sighted in with it for hunting season is that the pointed bullet gives more downrange retained energy and shoots a little flatter. Muzzle velocity is not that much different. My handloads are 170 gr and these are 160 grain so naturally the 160 gr has a little more velocity out of the barrel ... about equal to a 150 grain round nose. Once deer season is over I'll sight back in on the 170 grain bullets because I think they're a little to expensive to shoot just for the heck of it.

jvs · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2006, 12:14:57 PM »

They are about $5 more than CoreLokts and alot more than other brands, but from what some guys were telling me in the gunshop, they are worth the extra money. I haven't tried them yet. Having a pointed bullet flying out of my .35 will be a new experience for me, and I believe it will add another 100 to 150 yards of effective range to my Lever Action, if what those guys were telling me is true.

Have your groups improved with these loads? One guy told me he can cover 3 shots with a nickel at 100 yds. That isnt bad for a Marlin Lever Action. He claims his gun never shot that good before buying those Evolution Loads, even with reloads. I know my .35 never shot that tight at 100. I was always happy with about 2 inch from mine with corelokts.

I understand the .35's Evolutions have alot more kick to them, and about 15% more velocity.

Did you have to replace the Follower?

Dillohide · « **Reply #3 on:** October 30, 2006, 11:06:07 AM »

In both my 30-30's the Levereloution will put two side by side at 100 yards then drop one 1/2" to 1" depending on the rifle. The 1948 336 with a model 36 24" barrel shoots the tighter groups. These groups are not any better than my handload groups so no I don't get nickle size groups out of it. They do shoot about 5 inches higher at 100 yards than my 170 grain handloads. In the old rifle I have to put a round/flat nose cartridge in the tube first then feed the pointed Levereloution ammo behind it. If I don't the pointed ammo hangs up in the spring and won't cycle through properly. I don't have that problem with the 1976 336 carbine. I really haven't noticed more kick in the 30-30 but I normally shoot 170 grain and the 30-30 Levereloution is 160 grain.

From what I hear some rifles like it and some don't. I have a NEF Handi rifle in 30-30 with 22" barrel 1-10 twist that will shoot 1" groups with Federal 170 grain Power Shok ammo but opens up to 2 inch groups with the Levereloution ammo.

coyote trapper1928 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 30, 2006, 11:48:59 AM »

How are they in the new Winchester Model 94 rifles?

bgrdnr · « **Reply #5 on:** October 30, 2006, 12:57:53 PM »

As usual, performance depends on the individual rifle. My 336 30-30 performs reasonably well with 150gr Cor-Locks (1-2" at 100yrd, depending on the box of ammo). I gave up on the Hornady's after several attempts and getting a nothing better than 5" groups. For me, the 30-30 is for less than about 125 yrds and the 270 is for beyond that. Now I just need to get some dies for the 30-30 and work up some handloads.

markc · « **Reply #6 on:** October 31, 2006, 03:00:02 AM »

Well, I sighted in my 35 rem Marlin yesterday afternoon, only at 50 yds, will ahve to go back to move out to 100 yds. But at that short distance it will put the rounds touching easily. It does have a little kick, but not too much, certainly much less than my .444P. I shot the same ammo in my 35 Rem TC, and it definately had more recoil than the Rem Core Lokts that I had been hunting with. Hope to see how it performs on deer/pigs this Saturday...

jvs · « **Reply #7 on:** October 31, 2006, 11:09:53 AM »

I haven't shot them yet, but the customer that was in the gunshop was real enthusiastic about those bullets. He said he hit a deer at about 80 yds and dropped it in it's tracks. He claims they dont run after being hit with those, which is more trhan I can say about CoreLokts. Even though I have gotten alot of deer with that caliber, none have dropped where they stood. Granted, they dont run very far, but they still run. I figured if I got a box and they live up to what that guy said, so much the better. The Gunshop owner also had alot of praise for them. He has quite a few customers that tried them and really like them as far as range reports go.

It appears they are somewhere between 300 and 400 fps faster than ordinary .35 Rem loads. And since they are pointed, they would fly a little flatter.

Looking at the box, it says:

Muzzle Velocity 2225 fps

100 yds - +3

200 yds - -1.3

300 yds - -17.5

If this is true, those loads easily make your Marlin .35 Rem an accurate 200+ yd gun.

NYHunter · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2006, 06:48:42 AM »

Got them for my .35 Marlin. They shot and grouped very well. In couple of weeks I hope I'll see how they work on deer. So far I think they worth the money. Once you're sighted in, a box should last awhile if you only shoot at game. The Core-Lokts were always good for me. If these are as good, and you pick up the extra range, so much the better.

NFG · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2006, 12:26:21 PM »

I chronoed my Marlin 30-30, 20" bbl just this morning, 3 rounds Hornady 160 gr Leverevolution, 2200-2225 f/s, ave 2213 f/s. Hornady advertizes the same cartridge in a 24" bbl at 2400 f/s, so there is approximately a 200 f/s difference between Hornadys numbers and my numbers. I've shot two boxes so far. One just for targets, 5 - 3 shot targets and one 5 shot target, average group was 1 3/4", high of slightly over 2 " and low of just over 1 1/4", the other box went for chronoing and squirrels. Took out over a half dozen real nice. I am also developing a base line for comparison when I convert to 307 or 356.

I think if you chrono the 35 Rem in a 20" barrel you will get similar reduction in muzzle velocity.

NOW FOR THE WORMS...

I installed a Cowboy hammer spring and ground it down to get a trigger just over 3 lbs, that includes polishing the hammer and sear slightly, stoning and polishing the sides of the hammer around the screw hole and generally polishing and stoning the shiny spots after I had worked the lever about 200 or more times. It levers almost with one finger...anyway...

THE HORNADY AMMO WILL NOT FIRE AFTER DOING THIS PROCEEDURE. I had to shim up the spring to a 4 lb trigger to get 2 out of 3 to fire. Any misfire would fire after the second hammer cocking.

THIS IS NOT THE FAULT OF THE HORNADY AMMO, I WANT TO STRESS. The ammo has a hard primer so it is much harder to fire off as a consequence of the gummy tips and safety factors. Modifications and/or replacement of the factory hammer spring is NOT RECOMMENDED if you want to use the Hornady ammo.

I have fired at least 100 rounds of test loads with the trigger set at 3+ lbs without a misfire, using Fed210Match primers and three different powders, three different bullets. The best load was 36 gr RL-15, Speer 150 FNSP, Fed210M, Hornady Leverevolution brass, 2.55" OAL, crimped medium firm with a Lee crimper, 2300-2350 f/s. So far this load is putting 3 shots into 1" or less at 100 meters, 110 yds, depending on how well I hold and the conditions. This load is listed in the Hodgdon #27 manual as the top load for 150 gr bullets and RL-15 powder, 40KPSI. I started at 35 and got a 2" 1/4" vertical group, and 36.5 opened up to 1 3/8"horizontal, went back to 36 gr and fired 3 targets, one classic cloverleaf, one - two in one hole and the third just one caliber out and one - three in one hole a quarter would just cover. I will use this load for most of my shooting.

I won't be using any more Hornady Leverevolution because I reset my hammer spring and trigger back to 3+ lbs and the Speer load is equal to or better in the power department and 100 f/s faster. I find no fault with the Hornady Leverevolution ammo in a stock rifle with stock hammer spring and it shoots groups adequate for hunting.

Enjoy

jvs · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2006, 08:48:03 PM »

Thanks NFG. A harder primer might be needed in a tubular magazine also. So it isn't all in the tip, but in the primer too.

Did you get out farther than 100 yds? I was wondering if those trajectory numbers at 200 yds had creedence. One of the strongest assets of this ammo would be the extended range of those pointed bullets, if true. They kind of look like Ballistic Tips. If it wouldn't be for that composite rubber tip point, there would be no sense in paying more for a round that performs the same as a RN CoreLokt for $5 more. But an overall 4 inch drop between 100 and 200 yds (3" in. high at 100, and 1.3 in. low at 200) is much better than CoreLokts. A flatter trajectory.

Up until this time, the only choice I really had with pointed ammo out of a Lever, was to sight it in with pointed ammo and only load one round in the chamber while hunting. Which is ok I guess, since it usually only takes one shot. But I always like to load 3 shots though.

I also think that 160 gr is an odd weight for a .30/30 bullet. At least it isn't a weight I would be familiar with in that caliber for hunting. If you happen to sight in for Evolution Ammo, there isn't any easy change of ammo, without sighting in again.

One other thing...

Has there ever been a case where somebody loaded pointed ammo in a tubular magazine and had them go off due to recoil? Or is this just another Rural Legend?

I always heard that RN or FN shells were "recommended" for that reason. I was wondering if it ever really happened. I know of no case of it happening, but it always made sense to me.

NFG · « **Reply #11 on:** November 04, 2006, 06:22:30 AM »

I just picked up two boxes of Federal "cheepstuff". They listed 2390 f/s, probably from a 22 - 24" bbl, and it chronoed at 2300 +/- about 10 f/s in my 20 " Marlin. The BC calculates about .222 and is what my Load Disk program lists for that Federal bullet. That isn't bad for $9 bucks a box. That's 4 bucks a box cheaper than Rem Core-Lokts. I got them mostly for the brass.

You might try them. Being a 30-30 is really a 150 yd rifle there will be a small difference between the Hornadys and the Feds at that range.

Enjoy

ggeilman · « **Reply #12 on:** November 05, 2006, 12:27:55 PM »

Quote from: jvs on November 01, 2006, 08:48:03 PM

One other thing...

Has there ever been a case where somebody loaded pointed ammo in a tubular magazine and had them go off due to recoil? Or is this just another Rural Legend?

I always heard that RN or FN shells were "recommended" for that reason. I was wondering if it ever really happened. I know of no case of it happening, but it always made sense to me.

That is why the points are plastic so they cannot set off the other round.

markc · « **Reply #13 on:** November 06, 2006, 02:30:06 AM »

I can't comment on long range performance, but I did shoot a large feral sow Sat morning right behind the ear. The exit hole was alittle bit large than the entrance, and of course she dropped right away. Sooo, not much of a test yet, but I like the new Hornady ammo in .35 Rem. Next Friday, I hope to try it out of the Contender..

jvs · « **Reply #14 on:** November 10, 2006, 10:28:01 PM »

.35 Rem CoreLokts around here are usually in the $12 to $15 range. Last week the .35 Evolution Ammo was priced at $18.

I was at the gunshop last night and I noticed that the .35 Evolution Ammo now sports a $21 price tag. Only the Evolution Ammo in .30-30 was a little cheaper, with the big bore Evolution Ammo in the high $20's to the high $30's per box. I think the Evolution .450 Marlin ammo was $38 per box.

What I don't know is if this was a Hornady increase in price, a gunshop increase in price, or a price increase because of the higher costs of shipping.

cam69conv · « **Reply #15 on:** November 11, 2006, 05:00:41 AM »

Quote from: jvs on November 10, 2006, 10:28:01 PM

.35 Rem CoreLokts around here are usually in the $12 to $15 range. Last week the .35 Evolution Ammo was priced at $18.

I was at the gunshop last night and I noticed that the .35 Evolution Ammo now sports a $21 price tag. Only the Evolution Ammo in .30-30 was a little cheaper, with the big bore Evolution Ammo in the high $20's to the high $30's per box. I think the Evolution .450 Marlin ammo was $38 per box.

What I don't know is if this was a Hornady increase in price, a gunshop increase in price, or a price increase because of the higher costs of shipping.

That would be the old "supply in demand" price gouging from your friendly neighborhood gun dealer!!!

Has there ever been a case where somebody loaded pointed ammo in a tubular magazine and had them go off due to recoil? Or is this just another Rural Legend?

I always heard that RN or FN shells were "recommended" for that reason. I was wondering if it ever really happened. I know of no case of it happening, but it always made sense to me.

Yes it was tested and proved MANY MANY years ago....Recoil WILL set pointed off in the tube and its NOT a pretty picture at ALL...Typicly it was the middle cartrige that went off causing the rest to go as well.

jvs · « **Reply #16 on:** November 11, 2006, 07:29:05 AM »

Quote

That would be the old "supply in demand" price gouging from your friendly neighborhood gun dealer!!!

That would really surprise me. I know this guy over 35 years and I know he doesn't operate that way. However, he does not hesitate to pass on any increase by the manufacturer or the middle man, just as he doesn't hesitate to pass on discounts he receives.

It is quite possible that he sold all of his initial supply and this is the new prices on a new shipment. I didn't ask. All I did was let people here know that the prices are going up.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** November 12, 2006, 11:08:59 PM »

I guess i dont see much use for them. A properly sighted 3030 or 35 will take whitetails to 200 yards without a problem with corelocks and thats about as far as id want to shoot with one anyway. To me its just another answer to a problem that never existed. Like the short magnum craze.

jvs · « **Reply #18 on:** November 13, 2006, 11:21:38 AM »

I agree with you up to a point Lloyd. But I always wanted to be able to shoot pointed bullets out of my Marlin without any real safety concerns. As I said before, the only option I had before this product came out was to only load one pointed shell in the gun at a time.

Now I can load it all pointed if I choose. I can't get over the thought of having a full magazine of Spitzers in a Marlin Lever.

Nothing works like a CoreLokt, but I'm willing to try something new.

Gunjunkie · « **Reply #19 on:** November 15, 2006, 12:20:26 PM »

The Hornady Ammo will group 3 in at 300 yds we did it last sunday.. and its reports so far from others say its great ammo .. I think its a step in the right direction and down range energy is a plus..

Fearless · « **Reply #20 on:** November 15, 2006, 02:30:58 PM »

jvs,
you may have to change your follower and spring...I had to on my 45/70. I had a jam and ended up taking it in to a gunsmith...no problem as he changed out the spring and follower and all works great now. Hope they work well for you! Fearless

coyote trapper1928 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 17, 2006, 05:21:45 AM »

Is there a possibility that Hornady will offier the 30-30 LeverEvolution ammo in a wider variety of bullet weights?

My 2nd questiion is this:

I presume that Hornady has a patent on the LeverEvolution which would prevent other ammo manufacturers from making that style of bullet. But, could Hornady licenese out the manufacturing rights to the LeverEvolution bullet to , say, Federal, Remington and Winchester to keep up with the demand?

victorcharlie · « **Reply #22 on:** November 18, 2006, 02:27:05 AM »

I've heard how good the Leverevolution groups, but, in a .35, how much higher does it shoot than a 200gn corelokt? How much are you having to adjust?

cam69conv · « **Reply #23 on:** November 18, 2006, 03:41:27 AM »

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=ballistics/popup&product_sku=82735

Theres the ballistics data for the .35

jvs · « **Reply #24 on:** November 21, 2006, 11:32:33 AM »

Did anyone ever test these bullets in a bolt action?

They should do a little better out of a 22"+ barrel.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #25 on:** November 21, 2006, 12:07:41 PM »

Thanks, Cam69...........I'd like to know because my front sight is to long with my williams peep sight which causes me to hold high at 100 yards when shooting the 200 grain corelockt. I'm out of adjustment and have the rear all the way down and am thinking if I switch to either the federal blue box or the leverevolution then I might not need a shorter front sight.

I've tried the 150 grain corelocts but they shoot the same poi as the 200 grain loads.

I will need to order a new front post, but haven't decided which one I want..........

So, my question is, when zeroed with a 200 grain coreloct, how much higher is the leverevolution shooting?

cam69conv · « **Reply #26 on:** November 21, 2006, 03:48:08 PM »

Lot of variables to concider...Barrel length of your rifle being the main one....I believe the Lever ammo was tested for those ballistics out of a 22 inch barrel....If you are shooting a 22" then they should impact about 1.5 to 2.5 inches higher.....From all the test data that I have seen this is a VERY good round and I KNOW Imma have me a couple of those new XLR's by grits n granollas

victorcharlie · « **Reply #27 on:** November 22, 2006, 02:14:12 AM »

Thanks, It's a .35 336C with 20" barrel. I need about 3 inches.......I'll have to give some a try........Actually, at the ranges I'm working with, it's really not much of a problem........Most of my shots while hunting will be somewhat less than 50 yards. It's really only a problem punching paper at 100.

Thanks!

cam69conv · « **Reply #28 on:** November 23, 2006, 07:59:34 AM »

Not sure how it will perform out of that short of a barrel...I dont know what the powder is that they are useing so I dont know what the burn rate is...What some people dont realize is barrel length really affects bullet speeds because of the powder...If the round was designed for a 24 inch barrel then it may use a little bit slower burning powder to increase pressure and velocity...the shorter the barrel the faster the powder you want to use....Doesnt really help when 5 grains of powder is flashing off AFTER the bullet has left the barrel....Good way to test a good burn is...Take and OLD white sheet (and hope its ok with the wife or the next thing that gun may see is your ass) Lay it down spread out....Get in the prone position with the end of the muzzle at one end of the sheet just a few inches up and level.....fire off.....If you see powder (black spots) on the sheet then you are using too slow or too much powder for that particular length of barrel...Good luck

bfpgw · « **Reply #29 on:** November 29, 2006, 07:23:50 AM »

Sounds to me like some of the posters here aren't getting the message. Quotes like "3030 is for 125 yards......." The whole reason the 30-30 is considered a 125 to 150 yard gun is due to cartridge performance and ability to use iron sights. I have had leverguns for years, but only in pistol calibers. I bought a 336 30-30 a few weeks ago and started sighting it in. The factory bore sighting was right on with Federal cheap practice ammo (about 6" high at 50yds, about 5" high at 100 yds). But of course, the factory bead completely covers an 8" target at 100 yards. I tried the Leverevolution ammo at the same time. It was 4" high at 50 and 3" high at 100). The trajectory was much flatter and gave me enugh confidence in this "old" cartridge to try further. Just like Hornady says, zero at 200 equals about 3" high at 100. Real world performance was precisely what they advertised. Now the 30-30 is a 200-225 yard gun. Get over it. Things change with technology. Sometimes, with Hornady, it changes for the better and our old standards have to change too.

By the way, I refuse to put a scope on a lever gun. Mine has iron sights, not factory, but not a scope. Tried a Williams WGRS with .093 twilight peep, KNS Precision front crosshair sight (.425). Now I can lay the rounds precisely on the horizontal lines through the 6" round targets. I guess I better not tell my 336 it is supposed to be a 125 yard gun. These naysayers sound like the know it all at the range last Sunday afternoon. He was shooting an original WWII Mauser at the 50 yard targets with 4'x4' paper targets. When I walked by the target there weren't any holes in it!!!!!!! But he was the loudest and "smartest" yakker when we stopped shooting.