Author Topic: 338 Federal or 338 Winchester Magnum (Read 8005 times)

rickweed · « **on:** October 31, 2006, 04:33:25 PM »

I am interested in getting either one of the new 338 Federal or a 338 Win Mag in a Tikka T3 Hunter. I already have a 243, 270, 30-30, 30-06, 308, 300 WSM but want something with maybe a little more punch but not a lot of kick. I live in PA and hunt deer and bear but never got an Elk license here (lottery with about 50 per year) but hope to get out west for Elk and maybe Alaska for a brown bear. I have been reading that the 338 Fed is a good all round cartridge but for med range shooting. However, all say the 338 Win Mag kicks like a mule. Please give me some help here. Thanks.

poncaguy · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2006, 04:50:18 PM »

With the calibers you already have, I would go with the 338 Federal.......................

kyote · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2006, 04:53:30 PM »

have you considered the .338-06? you might like to look up the data on her.she is right on the heels of the .338mag.with a lot less powder.and is a dream to shoot.
of the two you listed...I would like the .338 mag..over the fed.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2006, 05:03:00 PM »

Here's a recoil table for some comparisons and the .338 Federal recoil specs in the second link. FWIW, I shoot a .338-06A-Square with 200gr loads @ 2700fps, 230gr @ 2600fps and 250gr loads @ 2500fps, recoil isn't all that bad, just a bit stiffer than that of 200gr loads in a .30-06, should be very comparable to those of the .338 Federal.

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/338_federal_first_look.htm

butterman · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2006, 05:22:48 PM »

I don't own a 338 Federal ,I do own a 3338 win mag. It will slap your brain around in your skull
on the bench shooting , but I have never felt bad or bruised shoting it "off hand" because you
give when the shot goes off. I shoot up to 20 rounds at a time you don't need to shot more.
I feel it will be the one you want to have in your hands going after big bear in Alaska as you said
you might do . I just feel the 338 Federal is a " HOT" 30-06 . It might not be for big bear.

handirifle · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2006, 07:33:11 PM »

I agree on the 338 Mag. IF big bears might be on the list, it will be the power you want to rely on.

I'm doing a 338-06 conversion, but until I see what it can do, I'm not sure I'd want to take a brownie with it.

dontstrokeme · « **Reply #6 on:** November 01, 2006, 08:48:40 AM »

I have a A-bolt with a 26" barrel and a Limbsaver recoil pad. I agree with above. It will kick on a bench but it doesn't kick anymore than a 7RM does if you shoot it in a field position. It would be my minimum choice for Alaska Bears, black or brown.
I don't think that the 338 Fedral is any better than the 30-06, which is fine foe your local animals, 30-06 can run up to 220 grains?

I think they are available that heavy. I don't think that the 338 Fedral is any better than the 300 WSM, probably less capable. My opinions.....

Joe Oakes

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2006, 12:25:54 PM »

You bet the 338 mag kicks on the bench, and I shoot it on the bench alot trying differnt loads. So I put a brake on it, and now its fun to shoot on the bench.
Jim

Gregory · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2006, 01:27:36 PM »

Have you considered a 325WSM, the ballistics are between the 338 Federal, and 338 Win Mag.

Elk Hunter · « **Reply #9 on:** November 02, 2006, 09:17:15 PM »

I use a Remington 700 in 338 win mag and I love it. I handload 225 gr partitions with 72 gr of H4831 and get a little over 2800 fps. I have taken 3 elk and 2 black bears with it. All were 1 shot kills. The partitions exited both bears and two of the elk. I would take the 338 to Alaska but would load 250 gr partitions because of the large bears. Remember that bullet placement and design are the most important thing. Sure both calibers will do the job but you can find 338 win mag everywhere. I live in Idaho and even remote gas stations carry 338 win mag. Good luck in your choice.

nasem · « **Reply #10 on:** November 03, 2006, 07:05:18 AM »

I never liked the 338 federal.... all they did was make a 308 diameter the size of 330 and made it weight between .... what is it I forgot the numbers.... 180-200 grains.... The 330 diameter works best when you have 225+ grains in the bullet esspecially if your going against tougher things like elk and brown bears. I can't see the 338 federal having the same penetration and knockdown power of the mighty 338 win mag. The 2 don't even compare.

Lets put it this way, your going to go to alaska for a VERY nice hunt.... You should not go in there with "oh my gun is alright, it can "handle" most things".... Instead you should feel that your very over gunned and have alot of faith in the amount of fire power you have. I should either opt for a good-ole 30-06 or your 300 short mag with good premium 180 grainers or step up a notch to the mighty 338 win mag. nothing else !!!

The 338 win mag has proven it self as a real powerhouse, there is a reason why most gun companies still chamber for it and thats been going on since the late 50s.

As far as recoil goes, I can't say its little, but I can tell you that it will be like a 30-06 times one and a half (shooting 180 grainers).

WyoStillhunter · « **Reply #11 on:** November 03, 2006, 09:40:56 AM »

With the 300 Win Mag on the top end of your list, the 338 Federal would fit nicely into the slot you describe. My solution to more mustard but not so much more recoil was to get a 35 Whelen in Rem. 700 Classic several years ago. It has lots of overlap with my '06 but I really like it for elk. Over the years I have taken WT, Mule Deer, antelope, elk and one Mountain Lion with the Whelen. It served well in every case, but the '06 would have done the job also. so many cartridges, so little time.

MCNETT · « **Reply #12 on:** November 03, 2006, 04:19:24 PM »

It looks like you have the medium powered rifles handled. I would overwhelmingly go to the 338 WM. It is a step up from anything on your list.

jro45 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 04, 2006, 03:39:11 AM »

I shoot the 338 RUM but with your choises I'd choose the 338 Win Mag. But you can down load the RUM to shoot like the 338 Win Mag.

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #14 on:** November 05, 2006, 02:09:43 PM »

Why not ask those that guide in Alaska? www.alaskamagazine.com check it out! I have made several trips with my wife and "never a cruise trip". Although I have not yet hunted seriously in Alaska. Fishing is really somthing you want to do. I am getting real close(saved the pennys,cut off thre inheritance). The real people I have encountered state that the 338 mag is the bottom line. In the lower 48, I use a 223 for varmints and f-class shooting, 243 for predator hunting, 6.5x284 (being built) for long range, 7mm Mag to handle the back up. As I reload it is a great project for me to continue. Ask me " One Gun North America" 338 mag.
Jim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 05, 2006, 07:10:01 PM »

I would say neither...if I were going to hunt up there...it would be either the new 375 Ruger...or the good ole 375 H&H...if your going to do it...bet on the bigger badder cartridge to get the job done...not on your life...

Mac

Sourdough · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:38:04 AM »

There is a reason the .338 Win Mag is the most populer cartridge in Alaska. It does the job. The .338 Federal is designed with Whitetail and Black Bear in mind. Not enough energy there for Moose or Big Bears.

nasem · « **Reply #17 on:** November 06, 2006, 06:01:26 AM »

Quote from: Sourdough on November 06, 2006, 03:38:04 AM

There is a reason the .338 Win Mag is the most populer cartridge in Alaska. It does the job. The .338 Federal is designed with Whitetail and Black Bear in mind. Not enough energy there for Moose or Big Bears.

thats exactly right.... what can the 338 federal do that the good ole 30-06 can't do

I am 100% sure the 30-06 gives better knockdown power esspecially with them 200 and 220 grainers.

Chuck White · « **Reply #18 on:** November 06, 2006, 12:05:56 PM »

If the big bears are in the picture, then without a doubt, the 338 Winchester Magnum!

Sourdough · « **Reply #19 on:** November 07, 2006, 07:52:18 PM »

A .308 is not adiquate for what I consider Big Game, ie, Moose, Elk, Grizzly/Brown Bear. So why would someone think a .338 Federal would be. The .338 Federal is nothing but a .308 with a bigger bullet. Still not enough energy.

Slamfire · « **Reply #20 on:** November 08, 2006, 02:08:58 AM »

If rangin' is what's holdin' you back from the .338 Federal, check out the latest issue of Rifle magazine. The Federal will outrange the old .358 and hit harder when it gets there. As for the bears, just make sure the guide carries a .458 Lott.

358Win · « **Reply #21 on:** November 09, 2006, 07:46:38 AM »

Two wildly different cartridges for very different uses. The 338 WM is loud, kicks like hell, and is quite suitable for Elk, Moose, and Big Bears. The only thing it could be considered weak for in North America would be a charge by a very large Bear at close range.

The 338 Federal on the other hand is an excellent all-around rifle. Good for everything between Coyotes, Antelope, Mule Deer, and even Moose. A bit light for Elk. On Bears it will do fine up to around 600 pound animals. Anything larger I would want more power.

The 338 Federal is the weak sister of the 358 Winchester. The 358 Win has the advantage in bullet weight, bore diameter, and bullets engineered to the velocity range of the cartridge. If you handload the 338 Federal you must be very careful about bullet choices as most of them are designed to be driven much faster than the 338 Federal is capable of doing.

The 358 Winchester also has the advantage on the small game end with 110 to 140 grain revolver bullets driven at 1800 to 2000 fps. On the Big end the 358 Winchester can handle Bears up to around 750 pounds. The ticket would be the 310 grain Woodleigh at 2,050 fps. This load should be kept down to about 175 yards and under.

The 358 Winchester is currently available in the Browning Lever Action or BLR. This is essentially a rotating bolt action driven by a rack and pinion gear attached to the lever. Clearly the best lever gun in the world and only weighs 6.5 pounds. With a Nikon Monarch Gold 1.5 - 6 x 42mm scope in Warne rings on Weaver bases it goes out the door loaded at 7 3/4 pounds. It is also available in right or left handed bolt actions by New Ultra Light Arms.

rickweed · « **Reply #22 on:** November 09, 2006, 02:33:03 PM »

After listening to all of you experts, I am leaning towards the 338 Win Mag. I was at the gun shop the other day discussing this 338 Federal VS 338 Win Mag thing. He tells me that you (a gunsmith) can put on a BOSS type reducer (for about $125) and it takes a lot of the kick out of the 338 Win Mag. Any comments or have any of you done this?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #23 on:** November 09, 2006, 02:55:35 PM »

I haven't done a BOSS, but I've shot a braked rifle, just wear hearing protection if you do the brake. If I had to have the Winmag and the recoil was objectionable, I'd opt for a mercury recoil reducer and limbsaver recoil pad over the brake.

Tim

handirifle · « **Reply #24 on:** November 09, 2006, 04:43:30 PM »

Quote from: 358Win on November 09, 2006, 07:46:38 AM

The 338 Federal on the other hand is an excellent all-around rifle. Good for everything between Coyotes, Antelope, Mule Deer, and even Moose. A bit light for Elk. On Bears it will do fine up to around 600 pound animals. Anything larger I would want more power.

The 358 Winchester also has the advantage on the small game end with 110 to 140 grain revolver bullets driven at 1800 to 2000 fps. On the Big end the 358 Winchester can handle Bears up to around 750 pounds. The ticket would be the 310 grain Woodleigh at 2,050 fps. This load should be kept down to about 175 yards and under.

The 358 Winchester is currently available in the Browning Lever Action or BLR. This is essentially a rotating bolt action driven by a rack and pinion gear attached to the lever. Clearly the best lever gun in the world and only weighs 6.5 pounds. With a Nikon Monarch Gold 1.5 - 6 x 42mm scope in Warne rings on Weaver bases it goes out the door loaded at 7 3/4 pounds. It is also available in right or left handed bolt actions by New Ultra Light Arms.

I think you are a bit misguided on the 338 Federals power. One article I read on it the author shot a bull elk from 315yds with the 185gr Barnes TSX load. The bullet blew through both shoulders FROM 315 YDS! I do not see that as light. It matches the 30-06 in ballistics, in every way, and no one has considered the 30-06 light for elk.

As for the 358 and the 305 Woodleigh, I'd bet not too many 358's can be loaded long enough to get max velocity with that long and heavy of a bullet. The 358 published loads all show the 200gr bullet at approx 2600fps and the 338 Fed published the 210gr Partition at 2630. I don't see it giving up anything to the 358 or the '06. In fact it has a better BC and SD for the 338 dia as opposed to the 358 dia.

rickweed · « **Reply #25 on:** November 12, 2006, 03:46:12 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on November 09, 2006, 02:55:35 PM

I haven't done a BOSS, but I've shot a braked rifle, just wear hearing protection if you do the brake. If I had to have the Winmag and the recoil was objectionable, I'd opt for a mercury recoil reducer and limbsaver recoil pad over the brake.

Tim

Where do you get these mercury recoil reducers and limbsaver recoil pads and can they be use with the Tikka T3 Hunter?

patrick.hover · « **Reply #26 on:** November 12, 2006, 03:50:28 PM »

Quote from: Gregory on November 01, 2006, 01:27:36 PM

Have you considered a 325WSM, the ballistics are between the 338 Federal, and 338 Win Mag.

I cant say enough on the .325 WSM and the 220 grain Power point. I tell you...I shot 3 animals with my new gun in one month this year...from Antelope @ 200 yards... Bull elk @ 100 yards, and just yesterday a nice western Muley @ 250 yards all with the 220 Win. power point . All one shot kills and only the elk went a few yards since he was trotting at the shot. Bullet performance was superb. The round shoots flat and carries a great big thump.(See My other post with elk pics is the "325 wsm awesome on elk!"). This cartridge WILL NOT beat you into next week, recoil feels like my 30'06 with 165 grains. I really am impressed with the versatility ...I am going to bring this cartride to kill a Griz in Alaska this spring...I will not feel undergunned and do recommend you try it over the 338 Federal(not as fast or versatile...and the 338 win mag kicks pretty hard.......just my thoughts from a traditonal rifleman who has converted! The 8mm has a great following in Europe and I think the .325 WSM is catching on fast here in the Old Glory..

Patrick.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** November 12, 2006, 03:54:24 PM »

Dunno the configuration of the Tikka stock, but the best price I found on the MRR is at MPC Sports. Limbsaver lists 2 different pads as fittng the Tikka, look at their templates to see which one fits.

Tim

http://www.mpcsports.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=245

http://limbsaver.com/limbsaver/firearms/precfit.aspx

Templates

rickweed · « **Reply #28 on:** November 13, 2006, 08:58:20 AM »

Quote from: patrick.hover on November 12, 2006, 03:50:28 PM

Quote from: Gregory on November 01, 2006, 01:27:36 PM
Have you considered a 325WSM, the ballistics are between the 338 Federal, and 338 Win Mag.

I cant say enough on the .325 WSM and the 220 grain Power point. I tell you...I shot 3 animals with my new gun in one month this year...from Antelope @ 200 yards... Bull elk @ 100 yards, and just yesterday a nice western Muley @ 250 yards all with the 220 Win. power point . All one shot kills and only the elk went a few yards since he was trotting at the shot. Bullet performance was superb. The round shoots flat and carries a great big thump.(See My other post with elk pics is the "325 wsm awesome on elk!"). This cartridge WILL NOT beat you into next week, recoil feels like my 30'06 with 165 grains. I really am impressed with the versatility ...I am going to bring this cartride to kill a Griz in Alaska this spring...I will not feel undergunned and do recommend you try it over the 338 Federal(not as fast or versatile...and the 338 win mag kicks pretty hard.......just my thoughts from a traditonal rifleman who has converted! The 8mm has a great following in Europe and I think the .325 WSM is catching on fast here in the Old Glory..

Patrick.

I want to get the Tikka T3 Hunter and they make the 270 WSM, the 300 WSM, the 300 Win Mag, 338 Federal and the 338 Win Mag but they do not make the 325 WSM. I have a regular 270 and a 300 WSM so I am wanting to get either the 338 Federal or the 338 Win Mag. Thanks for your help.

Syncerus · « **Reply #29 on:** November 13, 2006, 09:35:17 AM »

Going back to the original post, I don't see the two rounds as being direct competitors. It's like calling a .308 and a .300 UltraMag competitors. They're both good and useful, but they do different things. If you are trying to decide between the .338 Fed and the .338 WinMag, then you need to rethink your goals and priorities. It's an apples and oranges situation.