Which Bullet Mould (DIA.) for Ruger Old Army?

[Trout Bum]

I purchased a Ruger Old Army and took it to the range last week.  At 25 yds with the rear sight set as low as it would go, .457 RB's were 6" - 8" high.

As I see it, my only options are to either increase the front sight height or go with a conical vs. RB.  I am actually not sure if this second option will solve the problem but I will give it a try.

Do I need an undersized hollow base bullet so I can get it in the cylinder?  How do all of you use conicals?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
 

[geraldbergeron]

Hi,

I use:

- Round ball:   0.457

- Conical:        0.454

.......................................................................Gerald...../

[Trout Bum]

Hi Gerald,

I want to thank you for the help!  I will give them a try as soon as I get a mould, do you have any suggestions on which one?

Thanks,
Jim

[geraldbergeron]

Hi Jim,

You have the choice between an aluminium (Lee) or a steal mold (Lyman).

I have tried both ( a bit obsessive...)

Which is better ??

I have not enough experience in moulding to advice you adequately.

Maybe some other membrers of this forum could help.

Have pleasure with your OA, as much as I have.

Gerald.

[Evil Dog]

To me it is just a matter of personal preference.  I cast probably a 5 or 6 thousand ball a year using nothing but steel blocks ranging from single to 4 cavity.... either Lyman or RCBS.  Just personal opinion, but I think the RCBS blocks put out a better ball as the sprue isn't quite so pronounced.  Have really never cared for any of the aluminim blocks.

[geraldbergeron]

Hi,

Here is what I have noticed with my short experience (for the Ruger OA only):

With the Lyman (lead mould):

- very heavy to handle (after a few hundred bullets...

- the weight of the bullets is more constant.

- the sprue is evident.

- seems to keep its T* more steady.



With the Lee (aluminium mould):

- quite light to handle.

- the weight of the bullets seems to vary a little more from one bullet to another ( my own technique ?...)

- no sprue ( or almost none).

- gets colder quicker.



The bottom line.... I do not like to see sprue, so,  the Lee mold is the first one. at least up to now.

.....................................................Gerald.........................................................................../

[Fiveshooter]

Trout Bum,
                Your thinking is backwards. If your Old Army is already shooting high with round balls it will only shoot even higher with heavier conicals. I have changed the front sight to a taller one on all my ajustable sighted Old Army revolvers to work with conicals and still have enough ajustment to shoot round balls as well. Unfortunately the next higher front sight from Ruger is a bit higher than I wanted so I also changed the rear blade insert to one a little bit higher. If you are already hitting high at 25 yards with the rear all the way down it is probable that changing only the front will fix your problem with round balls and probably give you enough ajustment for conicals as well.
 As far as what conical to use I have good results with LEE's R.E.A.L. bullet for a 45 caliber rifle.
The .45 caliber R.E.A.L. bullet is or was available in two weights (200 grains and 250 grains). I use the 200 grain bullet. All of my 7.5" ajustable sighted Old Army revolvers were shooting anywhere fron 6 to 12 inches high with this conical at 25 yards with the stock sights and the rear sight all the way down. All of them had plenty of ajustment for round balls the way they come but after changing sights I have plenty of elevation ajustment for both.

[cokdnloded]

Fiveshooter,

Where are you getting your sight blades from?

What kind of loads and accuracy are you getting with the 200 grain REALs?

[howdy doody]

Hi Trout Bum,
I don't shoot out to 25 yards, but I have put mine on paper at that range and I could vary the POI with my powder charge. However I shoot fixed sight models. At 25 yards I had issues more with windage. I had to open one side of the rear notch a bit on mine. I shot mine off hand the last time I had paper targets and I think my groups were about 6". I use the 457 size ball that I cast from a  Lee mold. I use pure lead or near pure only. I know folks that use a 454 ball and wads. I don't use a wad and only load 30gr of 3F and that puts the ball pretty deep in the cylinder. I don't worry about chainfire from the front with the ball that low. I had special rams made for that purpose. I shoot CAS every week usually. I use a 457 ball for the seal it makes. I like to see a thin shaving of lead after ramming. I have a pic of one of my 5 1/2s with the longer ram installed that I can post. A ball laying on top of the chamber will just clear the nose of the rammer when rotated under for ramming.
However I was just loaned a new 454 round nose conical mold that is especially for the ROAs. It has a huge lube groove. I haven't even had a chance to cast any yet, but I plan on casting from wheelweights and then see how they fly. If they work out, I'll get a mold of my own. Wheelweights I can get readily, and other than the stick on type, which are plenty soft enough to ram, I have trouble getting enough pure lead to satisfy as many balls that I shoot year round.

[Fiveshooter]

Fiveshooter,

Where are you getting your sight blades from?

What kind of loads and accuracy are you getting with the 200 grain REALs?

You can get the front sight blades from Brownell's or directly from Ruger. I bought several at once.

Accuracy from the 200 grain REAL is generally around 2" at 25 YDS and you will need to play with the load to get the best groupings.  Best accuracy obtained for me so far has been with Pyrodex P. With 777 you will get higher velocity and also higher extreme spreads.

[longcaribiner]

Here's two conicals to try, Both are or were available from Lyman at one time,    Mould number 457127, a 210 grain conical about a half inch long (not much more room than the round ball) or Mould number 456191, a 300 grain bullet.  I have used both as moulded from pure lead.     Another possibility would be to find one of the old Ideal collar button moulds, No. 457130, a 144 grain bullet for 45-70's.  A friend of mine has used the collar button bullets in his Ruger OA and claims it delivers higher velocity than round balls of the same weight.   I also have another bullet mould for a modified wad cutter, just under a 1/2 inch long and 456 diameter.  It packs one gosh awful wallop.  It is basically a .456 cylinder with grease grooves, nearly the same length as the round ball.

I'll post the name of the manufacturer, when I locate the mould.  Seems to me it may also have been from Ideal when they were still in business.

[blhof]

I just got a Ruger OA and found the same problem with high strikes at 25 yd.  I use the Lee conical for the Ruger with reasonable, but high grouping.  Where did you get the long ram? as I have been hand ramming with a rifle starter to seat on light , starter loads.  I also found out by trial and error that the conicals fit my 44 flintlock like a charm, easier to drive than patched balls and only have to cast one run for both. Any info on powders and suggested loads would be appreciated.

[Rickk]

The LEE #90383 (Old Army) mold has a slightly reduced diameter base driving band. This first band is a slip fit into the Ruger chamber. The send and nose bands are I believe .457.  You will shave a bit of lead of the second and nose band for a tight fit.

The reduced base band makes it easier to start the bullet straight... makes loading cake.

The other two .457 bands, with lube in both grooves, makes for a tight seal to reduce the possibiliity of chain firing. I roll the bullet in Lee liquid lube, but I stil add a bit of Criso over the bullet "just in case". In warm weather, vasoline and parfin wax mixture has an advantage over Crisco in that it won't melt as easily and make a goopy mess.

Trout Bum, I don't know what your charge is but a hotter charge will case the ball to leave the barrel sooner during the recoil period and cause it to hit lower on the target. Don't forget that a Ruger will take not only 3f, but also 4f with ease. There will be a point where accuracy will suffer but you won't know that if you are shooting over the target.

[OLDHandgunner]

I use a Lyman single cavity .457 RB mould. My Old Army is an old 1st. year 140-017xx.  Never tried the conical bullets because the RB always shot so good. Don't shoot it much anymore.

[howdy doody]

Back again. Pure lead balls of the reccomended .457 is the thing to use if you are shooting and ROA. The balls should shave lead as an indication of a tight fit and a tad more contact with the chamber walls, since they are round to start with. The pure lead will change considerably after lighting off a decent charge of BP or sub. The roundness of the ball is another reason there isn't much of a forcing cone on a ROA, but the cyclinder has that nifty bushing in front and that is why you don't have as much issue with crud on the pin of them.
But......you can shoot conicals. Lee makes one that they sell and they also make a couple others they don't. Those others are of the big lube variety. They carry way more lube than the Lee conical that they sell for use in a ROA. One of the other conicals is big. Like maybe 210gr as cast. The other is about 150gr cast. These do not have to be cast of pure lead, in fact wheel weights work great. They are not as easy to load as a ball with cylinder in gun though. Powder Inc and DD carry loading devices to load cylinders out of the gun.
I myself shoot C&B as a class in cowboy action shooting. I shoot 30 rounds from each of two ROAs every day or match. Sometimes big matches are two days of shooting and that would be an overnight thing. With the big lube bullets, I don't even have to clean the guns up until getting home. The fouling stays that soft. Casting the bullets of wheelweights is economical for me too and since we shoot at steel targets I get better scoring from spotters that can't get it in their heads that sometimes pure lead won't make much more than a splat noise and what with the smoke and all it is tough to spot for a BP shooter. The wheelweight bullets make as good a noise as anything the smokeless crowd shoots and that is a help for me. I have a light load going for the little EPP bullet and it requires no wads, over ball lubing and makes things fast as can be to get loaded up.
I have a website for the guy that brokers these big lube BP bullets. He has to get 100 molds at a time and pay a set up fee to Lee and they make them of the six gang mold type. Here is a link if you should care to see what I am talking about. He has some dimensions listed for some of the molds. Unfortunately he doesn't sell the bullets, just the molds, which is a problem for those that do not cast.
http://www.biglube.com/

[Rickk]

A major reason why most conicals don't shoot as well as round balls is that it is hard to get them started straight and the base gets all messed up.

The Lee Old Army mold, with it's reduced diameter base band, starts straight and doesn't mess up the base.

[howdy doody]

Rickk is correct. The best conicals for ROAs are the ones that have a tapered base of .450 and end up at .454. They work best for loading on a fouled chamber.

[WILD_WEASEL]

The only thing I do not like about this revolver is the fact that my local indoor range will not let me shoot black powder or Pyrodex. The fit and finish are excellent and the bright stainless steel finish with synthetic ivory grips is a snap to clean using Hoppes "#9 Plus" for black powder. This is my first black powder cap & ball revolver, so to make loading easier I used Speer .457 144 gr. lead balls, Wonder wads, Pyrodex 45/30 pellets, and capped these off with CCI #11 caps. These loads give about 800 fps, but prints 6” low at 25 yards.  The only accessory I recommend getting and a must have, is a good quality “CAPPER” made for #11 caps as the cylinder nipples are deeply recessed and a tad hard to get caps on if you have butter fingers.  Based on my experience with Cowboy loads and a R&D conversion cylinder I’m fairly certain that this particular ROA will shoot 220gr Lee Conicals to point of aim with black powder.  At the last local gun show I bought a box of custom cast Lee Conicals in pure lead to experiment with but have not made it to the outdoor range with them yet.  I may have to switch to loose powder, since I’m not sure if the conical will seat deep enough over a Pyrodex pellet. As mentioned, I also have a stainless steel R&D 45 Colt conversion cylinder that closely matches the polished stainless of the Shortly Old Army, that allows me to use this revolver at my local indoor range.  Using my own Cowboy reloads of 8 gr of Unique under a 255 gr LSWC with a WLP primer this revolver shoots to point of aim at 15 yards, the max distance of my local indoor range.  It is just as accurate as my Ruger Blackhawk Convertible shooting the same load.  As a side note. The BH Convertible shoots to the same point of aim with Winchester 45 ACP White Box, when the 45 ACP cylider is installed.  In the BH the 45 ACPs are like shooting 38 Special wad cutters in my GP-100.

[howdy doody]

Wild Weasel, you got that right about not shooting BP at an indoor range. I never have found one in my area that would allow it either. Looks like you have the answer though with conversions.
I like to clean mine with Windex. The kind that has vinegar. Works slick, but then again mine are cured for BP and that is all I shoot. I use a rotary capper with mine. They hold 100 caps at a time. I use #10 Remington caps and never had much luck with CCIs. You have to give them a squeeze and the #10 CCI are too small to seat fully.
I traded off my white grips and got Eagle gunfighters for mine. I like the feel of them. I have them on everything.
Accuracy, you bet. Once you get used to the weight of them, they print a great pattern. I only use a 30gr load and had to do a little file work on mine, but they sure are accurate alright.