Author Topic: Nip this 45 Colt/.410 idea in the bud! (Read 1277 times)

TribReady · « **on:** November 03, 2006, 04:52:06 PM »

I've got a 20ga modified choke pardner barrel that I'm planning on either drilling/tapping for a low power scope or having a buddy of mine apply some rifle sights. I'm going to try this for my daughter who turns 12 next year and needs a deer gun (I "learned" deer hunting with a smoothbore 870 and bead sight and know they're effective--especially at the ranges we shoot at)
I've been reading about a .410/45 Colt barrel and the fact that it can be fitted to a sb-1 frame. Is the 45 Colt an option for my daughter or should I just stick with my 20ga smoothbore idea. The 20's kick should be manageable for her (12 in a handi would no be), but I was thinking the 45 Colt might even be more manageable. My only concerns are accuracy, range, and decent deer bullet availability.
I know I shouldn't even consider this .410/45Colt option, so someone confirm it for me...

FLNT4EVR · « **Reply #1 on:** November 04, 2006, 02:05:33 AM »

I have a 45/410 but I must admit I have never used it for deer. When I saw your post it made me curious so I did a GOOGLE search 45 colt for deer I was quite suprised at the results After reading some of the information available with a proper bullet and load I wouldn't hesitate to use a 45 for deer at ranges out to 75yds.

Swampman · « **Reply #2 on:** November 04, 2006, 02:32:15 AM »

The .45 Colt is a good deer cartridge, if the range is kept to under 100 yards.

TribReady · « **Reply #3 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:33:15 AM »

Thanks! I did the same search. Alot of info out there.
Is the NEF barrel rifled? It would have to be wouldn't it?

FLNT4EVR · « **Reply #4 on:** November 06, 2006, 02:19:41 AM »

Yes it's rifled. When shooting 410's in it ther is a special choke tube that screws into the muzzle.This tube stops the spin of the rifeling on the shot load and gives a pretty good patern.Be sure you remove the tube before fireing any 45's or410 slugs.The choke tube wrench stores easily in the butt stock.

stuffit · « **Reply #5 on:** November 06, 2006, 02:57:14 AM »

Hmmmmmmm........ then if you eliminated your use of the choke tube, you could potentialyl have a 454 or even a 460 too with a little chamber work??? If the rifling twist is suitable?
s.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:30:26 AM »

Quote from: stuffit on November 06, 2006, 02:57:14 AM

Hmmmmmmm........ then if you eliminated your use of the choke tube, you could potentialyl have a 454 or even a 460 too with a little chamber work??? If the rifling twist is suitable?
s.

That may work fine on an SB2 frame, but definately wouldn't on an SB1 frame, 454 SAAMI MAP is 50kcup, and the 460 is even higher at 65kpsi!

Tim

http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellk.htm#pressure

FLNT4EVR · « **Reply #7 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:54:26 AM »

Going to 454 or 460 may not be necessary. You could work up some pretty hefty loads for the 45 colt. check out the load data at the Precision Cast Bullets website.

stuffit · « **Reply #8 on:** November 06, 2006, 06:12:37 AM »

Actually, I'd wanted the .454 because I shoot that caliber in a couple of revolvers and wanted a Handi to try out some loads in sometimes. Also, I have the original wood from my BC "renovation" and it would seem a good caliber to use it on.

Quick, how would I work out the logistics of getting an SB 2 frame and then getting a barrel fitted? The most direct route would be?

Haven't gone through the factory for any of ours, all of them being "natural" fits, though I'd want new components for the .45 Colt/ 454.

stuffit

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** November 06, 2006, 06:44:26 AM »

Do what I do, just buy a used Handi, then sell/trade the barrel here or on ebay if you didn't need it, or have it rechambered/rebored to what you do need/want! I would recommend an NN or HN or later serial number prefix so you get the late model stronger frame, then send it in for a .45c/410 barrel fitting. There's a slight discrepancy in the chamber specs tween the 45C and 454 tho, and an oversize 45C chamber may further the issue since the 45C is already .002" bigger than the 454, if it's even more oversize as a lot of H&R chambers are, could make for short brass life. You'd be breaking ground here as I don't recollect anyone else doing it yet, just many threads discussing it.

Tim

454 Casull

stuffit · « **Reply #10 on:** November 06, 2006, 07:11:07 AM »

Thanks, Quick. What I'd wonder about here is, as you mention, what the factory dimensions of the chamber might be (especiallly in regard to length), particularly since it will chamber up to 3" 410 gauge shells. Wonder if H&R (or anyone on the Handi forum) had these dimensions somewhere?
s.

stuffit · « **Reply #11 on:** November 06, 2006, 07:51:01 AM »

In the illustration on the H&R site, the barrel seems to have only a shotgun type bead front sight. If it were tapped for a scpoe this would be immaterial to me but if not, a further impediment to the project.
I reckon not everyone agrees on the .454 dimensions.

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=144

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** November 06, 2006, 08:21:47 AM »

Yup, then ya have the actual dimensions of the 45C/410 chamber to deal with!!

FWIW, someone in the past posted that he put either sights or a scope on his 45/410 and was hitting clay birds at 100yds with 45C, so they can be accurate with more than just a bead to work with.

And the long jump to the rifling has got to impact velocity considerably, in my .45-70 throating project, 2425fps loads became 2330fps loads and that was with just a .240" increase in bullet jump, but some of that may have been due to temp change even with the Hodgdon Extreme powder that I'm using.

Of course if you're starting out at 454/460 velocities, that would be a moot point!

Tim

Duckdog · « **Reply #13 on:** November 07, 2006, 12:36:10 PM »

I have had excellent results with this gun after I had it drilled and tapped for a scope. I also am using the Lee .456 conical for 44 B.P. revolvers cast from WW. I tried the .452 cast bullets, but the bore is too sloppy for them to bite the rifling correctly.

I am using unique in the 8 gr range, but I have don't have it in front of me. There is absolutely no recoil and I'm getting 2" groups at 75 yds.

My wife uses it for deer hunting and really likes shooting it. As far as bullet jump, I'm guessing that the tight fit centers the bullet and makes that a mute point. I have used a dowel and tapped one through the barrel without too much effort, as long as I have it lubed with liquid alox. I also get no leading from this what so ever.

I am seriously considering getting one in the nickel finish, as it is so much fun to shoot.

stuffit · « **Reply #14 on:** November 07, 2006, 02:58:06 PM »

I called H&R today and found out they will tap the barrel and put a rail on it when they fit it. It doesn not come tapped and the "bead" front sight is of the shotgun type. The chamber is as has been discussed above, designed for the 3" 410 shell. So there is just a little bit of free bore there.

I think a 2" 75 yard grouop sounds pretty darn good for this type of firearm. I wish I had asked them the bore diameter and the rifling pitch. Hmmm....... Get's more interesting all the time.

stuffit

Duckdog · « **Reply #15 on:** November 08, 2006, 02:52:24 PM »

Did they say what it would cost for the scope rail and tapping? I have an pal that does it, so it's really not a big deal, but just courious.

I agree with you, a 2" group a 75 yds is pretty good. I've shot a lot of loads without wrecking one single case yet, so I think this setup is very brass freindly, as long as a person keeps the loads reasonable.

I wish they would just offer this caliber as a barrel, but I suppose they have their reasons. i'd gladdly trade it for my 44 mag, as I can't get that thing to group for anything.

stuffit · « **Reply #16 on:** November 08, 2006, 03:35:37 PM »

I did not make a note of the charge but I think it was close to $35 for the drilling and tapping including the H&R rail. Close to that, anyway. In view of your comments on the 44 Mag barrel according to information from some online contacts more knowledgable about Handis than I am, the 44 mag has a 1/34" twist (doesn't seem right, does it; supposed to be the same as the .444 Marilin) while the 45 Colt barrel had a 1/16" twist. So, if the information on the 44 mag barrel is corect, then you'd not want to load a very long bullet in it. Lighter would be more likely to stabilize better, I'd think. While, it would appear, you could load a fairly long/heavy bullet in the 45 Colt. Hmmmm...

stuffit