Taylor Throat reamer

[MattC]

Brownells sells a hand cutter that will recut your forcing cone.  Don't need a lathe.  If your original throat was off center, do you think this tool would just follow the original or straiten it out?  It is probably an easier fool proof way of removing the constriction that usually needs to be lapped out.  Anyone intersted in a community reamer?  Get several guys to go in and it might make sense.   

[44 Man]

If you bought it for that caliber, it would center the new forcing cone to the bore.  If you are having accuracy problems, it's more likely that the culprit is undersize exit holes in the cylinder.  If these are undersize for your bullets, they will swage them down then they don't make a good fit in the bore and you will have poor accuracy.  I have had a couple of guns that needed the cylinder throats opened up and a couple that needed the forcing cone done.  I think doing the cylinder was about $20 and cutting the forcing cone was only about $10 each.  I would not invest in the tool unless you had a lot of use for it.  44 Man

[safetysheriff]

if you haven't done it already, do a search on the web of "taylor throating" and see what you learn from the revolversmith(s).   it's a good idea in many cases.

will it help to center an off-center forcing cone?   i'd think that since you're working with a reamer on a bore as large as .428 (approx' now!) that the reamer wouldn't bend too much and that if you did a lot of turning of the reamer with Very Little motion toward the muzzle that the cutter would move the forcing cone into better concentricity with the bore.    but that's how i'd do it......   a lot of turning of the reamer.......

good luck,

ss' 

[MattC]

I have reamed my cylinder throats to 452.5 and run about 50 firelap rounds through it, put in a belt mtn base pin and still I can't get under 3 inches with a cylinder full at 25 yards.  I am shooting a lbt 325 wfn with a gas check over h4227, 2400, or 296 generally around 1100 fps.  I may send it off to a custom smith, but thinking I may just buy a freedom arms 83. 

[safetysheriff]

Brownells sells a hand cutter that will recut your forcing cone.  Don't need a lathe.  If your original throat was off center, .   

what makes you think the throat is off-center?    do you get lead coming out the side(s) of the barrel/cylinder gap?

maybe, just maybe, you need to study up and then  practice your revolver technique.   no offense intended.   just that revolvers/pistols can be difficult to master, and require frequent practice.

i'm guessing that you are working with a .45 caliber Long Colt.   i think that you should probably try to stick with the h-4227 to achieve a good load density without generating too much pressure.   use a firm, consistent crimp.   to help with this make sure all your brass is trimmed to the SAME length.   otherwise the cirmp consistency will suffer.    use a standard primer (no magnums with h-4227).   

hope that helps, because nothing absolutely guarantees that a FA-83 will give you the accuracy you desire.....unless your handloads are good for your particular revolver as well as your technique,etc.etc.etc.   

take care,

ss'   

[MattC]

Hey SS- It doesn't spit lead, I just thought that since I can get it to shoot very well probably the forcing cone or crown is iffy.  I am using a LBT WFN mold that I really want to use.  I'm using water dropped WW gas checks and blue lube.  They test out at 20 BHN or so, seems like they should shoot.  They are heavy, I asked for 325 but checked and lubed they go about 340.  I can shoot a 44 Ruger SBH well from a bench, I am resting the frame on bags, not contact of but of gun or barrel.  Who knows.  Its frustrating when you really like a gun but can't get it to shoot.  Its one of those stainless accusport bisleys

[safetysheriff]

  I am shooting a lbt 325 wfn with a gas check over h4227, 2400, or 296 generally around 1100 fps. 

if that bullet is really doing around 1100 fps' then i'd think that your "20 BHN'' is too hard to allow the bullet to obturate when it passes through the forcing cone.   the working pressure and acceleration of the .45 Long Colt probably call for a softer bullet.   (though in the .44 mag' a 20 BHN could be proper.)   

your .4525" diameter for the cylinder throats may or may not also be the problem.   as the other gentleman has said, throat diameters of the cylinders can be problematic.   what is the diameter of the grooves in the barrel as well?

i'd also recommend that you use a two-hand hold with your weak-side hand setting lightly on the rest and see if that helps.   but no matter what else, you are shooting a heavy bullet that has a relatively long barrel-time affecting the recoil pulse.   are you handling the recoil well?

www.leverguns.com has a host of articles that deal with hardcast bullets and their lubes, hardness, sizing, etc.etc.   i recommend you look at the three differnt sets of articles and study them to see why i question the BHN you're using, etc.

let us know how you do.

ss'

ps:  i admire your choice in handguns...........RUGER !

[MattC]

Maybe they are too hard.  I'll air cool some and try those, they come out about 12.  I bought that lbt tester a couple years ago and its fun to test stuff.  I have measured the bore and forgot what it was but I know its smaller than .4525.  I'll check out the leverguns site. 

This bullet at 11oo fps is not too bad.  Its more of a push than a slap and the muzzle blast is not near like a hot 357 or 44-which tend to give me a headache.  At 1200 the pistol starts breaking my grip and the bisley hammer stabs me in the thumb, so I kepp it around 1100.

[Lloyd Smale]

you want my opinion try another bullet. Your alloy isnt to hard. Ive shot lynotype at 700 fps with good accuracy. Taylor throating. Ive done two guns and it may have helped some but its been nothing drastic. Every gun is its own animal. one gun may shoot a bullet into an inch and the next might spray that same bullet everywhere. Now take that same bullet thats spraying everywhere and try every powder primer and alloy combination you can think of and youll probably get it to shoot at least resonably. Im a firm beliver in throating, especially in the case of ruger .45s i believe lapping helps but again its not going to do anything drastic. Belt mountain pins are great but wont shrink groups in half. Load development is where its at. Ive bought many guns from guys that told me they just wouldnt shoot. Most of the time i find they tried one or two bullets with one or two powders and gave up. Handguns are more finiky then rifles. Theres alot more going on with 6 differnt chambers trying to line up with one bore. IVe got guns here that ive spent a year developing loads for before i chanced on to something that just made it work. Best starting point is to cast or buy at least five different bullets in the weight and design of what your trying to accomplish with the gun Then try at least 3 different powders with each. When you find the best shooting load of that bunch try 3 different primers. Then take the best designed bullet buy the mold and cast it out of 3 different alloys. Thats how you make a handgun tick!

[MattC]

Oh Damn Llyod now I have to buy more $125 molds from Veral.  I have tried all the standbys with this particular bullet. VV-n110, 2400, 296 h4227.  I suppose I could try like AA-9 or something.  I think I am not in the sweet pressure envelope with 296 staying under 1200 fps as chronograph data is all over. but it hurts too much faster.  Around 18.4 of 2400 gave me 1077 fps three shots in a row, but it still wasn't accurate althought the best I tried.    Its just too dang heavy for Unique I would think.  I do like to plink at 100 yards so I am looking for around 1100 fps.  Otherwise it like lobbing a mortor (think 45 acp)   Actually I probably should  buy more LBT stuff as when he was paused in his business for several years his stuff was going for unbelievable rates on EBAY.   SInce he is a one man shop and wont be around for ever I should probably pick up some more molds.

I have the afore mentioned 325 WFN that drops heavy - closer to 340 checked and lubed.

What else should I try?  Maybe a 280 to 300 LFN or WLN.  Ross Seyfried used an LBT WFN I think when he was chasing the 1-inch 100 yard group with his custom Bowen. 

I'll be happy when I find 6 shot groups sub 2-inch at 25 yards and be thrilled as hell if I ever go near an inch. 

An interesting side note.  I have had good results with this bullet on three large on hogs with this bullet--they just flat died. But I shot a tiny 3 point buck 2 years ago right through the boileroom.  I was in a treestand along the edge of the corn field, and he took off running out of sight.  I thought I missed, got down to make sure there was no blood (about 30 yards).  I saw blood and was like ahh crap figuring a bad shot.  Waited a 1/2 hour and started following a fairly light blood trail.  It was a picked corn field with alot of trash so it made it easy to follow.  In the woods it might have been tough.  Anyway I think he ran 300 to 400 yards.  My dad was teasing me about my grizzly killer loads and remarked a grizz could have eaten me twice.  Upon dressing it looked like the bullet had grazed the heart-which may be why the blood trail was light.  A doe I shot did teh more expected fall over dead or maybe a wobbled step.     

[Lloyd Smale]

matt i sent you a PM as id dont abide with posting loads here and i have some info for you.

[safetysheriff]

you want my opinion try another bullet. Your alloy isnt to hard.

Taylor throating. Ive done two guns and it may have helped some but its been nothing drastic. ...........

Im a firm beliver in throating, especially in the case of ruger .45s

Lloyd,

am i missing something or is this a contradiciton?   are some of the other suggestions too expensive?

i think that if Matt' will look at the potential for a few problems here, and the potential for a few solutions to work together that he will be well on his way......    changing one variable at a time is usually a good idea.   but it can be a problem to to figure out what will help with some of those Rugers that have accuracy problems.   generally i think they are accurate......very accurate.    but: over-sized base pins help; taylor throating generally helps; generally, LBT's items are good products; and so on.

you could be right, Lloyd.   but i suspect that he can try a couple of relatively inexpensive fixes' and possibly get his accuracy level up significantly.

just my two cents,

ss'