Author Topic: Say Hello to the Standardized 30-30 Improved. Wow! (Read 2235 times)

Robert · « **on:** November 09, 2006, 06:06:18 AM »

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=481
This looks like the old 30-30 with the shoulder blown forward....pretty close to the 30-30 Improved, but not with the Ackley shoulder. Good Job Hornady.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2006, 06:19:31 AM »

More of a redesigned .307 Winchester!

Tim

http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=17104

eskimo36 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2006, 06:42:02 AM »

Is this a future (soon) chambering for the handi since it comes from Marlin?

Dillohide · « **Reply #3 on:** November 09, 2006, 09:35:15 AM »

That is very interesting. Thanks quick I missed that one over on the marlinowners board. I particularly like that they will be making a more typical leveraction for it, other than just the 24" barrel stainless, with a blued 22" barrel version. Bet they will eventually offer at least a Handi barrel for it.

bajabill · « **Reply #4 on:** November 09, 2006, 10:59:59 AM »

the 375 ruger looks interesting too.

The list of new and fairly quiet offerings is growing. Have not heard much more about the 338 federal lately.

Fred M · « **Reply #5 on:** November 10, 2006, 06:22:22 AM »

In a Handi the 308 Express offers nothing for what I can see. And no, it is not a 30-30AI.

If you want more power than a 30-30 you can have a 308 Win or a 30-06 in a Handi.

Why another 30 caliber when all they had to do is chamber the lever action for the 307Win. The 308 Express is just another cartridge to confuse the general hunting public with nothing substantial to offer.

I doubt it will ever achieve the accuracy potential of the 30-30AI.

bajabill · « **Reply #6 on:** November 10, 2006, 07:34:37 AM »

I was reading the marlinowners forum quick linked to above, and while reading the comments from the marlin rep?? I was wondering all along, why not put the 307 in the marlin? He made some comment about pressures and the guns have to be made stronger than the typical 30-30 frame to handle the 308express. Maybe this is not has high pressure as the 307 was speced for?

I do think using "308" in the name of a noninterchangible cartidge(with the real 308) is a recipe for disaster.

jason280 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 11, 2006, 01:33:17 AM »

Yeah, I don't think the choice of names is the best. Just consider the trouble Remington had with the 7mm Express, and the number of times the .280 was renamed.

Swampman · « **Reply #8 on:** November 11, 2006, 02:01:46 AM »

Well, I can't even find a regular .30-30 Handi to buy at this point. It looks like they just reinvented the wheel. I think the .30-40 Krag would be the best .30 caliber cartridge for the Handi.

Fred M · « **Reply #9 on:** November 11, 2006, 07:44:23 AM »

Swampman
I don't know why you keep harping about the 30-40 Krag. This cartridge is a has been. It is not the best for a Handi. It has 2.0gr more volume than a 308, it is not as easy shooting as a 30-30. It is not in the same class. Ruger made the the #3 in a 30-40 Krag, if it was so desireable why did the quit making it? Because it did not sell like a 308 or 30-06.

Can't you see why the 30-30 Handi is hard to get, I have been trying to get one for a long time. H&R can't make them fast enough. You know why, because it is the best suited cartrige for the Handi and everybody and his dog wants one and over a million Win 94 proof the point. So where does that leave the 30-40 Krag.

308 Win ammo can be found in most any corner store world wide. So why would anybody want a 30-40, because it has a rim? It is a fact that rimless cases work well in all the modern single shots. So what is the beef? Wake up man there ain't going to be a 30-40 Krag in a Handi by H&R. You have to make your own, and you are welcome to it. I don't even like reading a bout a 30-40 Krag.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 11, 2006, 10:43:28 AM »

Quote from: Fred M on November 11, 2006, 07:44:23 AM

Swampman
I don't know why you keep harping about the 30-40 Krag. This cartridge is a has been. It is not the best for a Handi. It has 2.0gr more volume than a 308, it is not as easy shooting as a 30-30. It is not in the same class. Ruger made the the #3 in a 30-40 Krag, if it was so desireable why did the quit making it? Because it did not sell like a 308 or 30-06.

Can't you see why the 30-30 Handi is hard to get, I have been trying to get one for a long time. H&R can't make them fast enough. You know why, because it is the best suited cartrige for the Handi and everybody and his dog wants one and over a million Win 94 proof the point. So where does that leave the 30-40 Krag.

308 Win ammo can be found in most any corner store world wide. So why would anybody want a 30-40, because it has a rim? It is a fact that rimless cases work well in all the modern single shots. So what is the beef? Wake up man there ain't going to be a 30-40 Krag in a Handi by H&R. You have to make your own, and you are welcome to it. I don't even like reading a bout a 30-40 Krag.

Fred...while the 30-40 may not be as easy shooting as a 30-30...to say it's a has-been and isn't suitable for a Handi isn't really correct. Also...just because Winchester produced over a million model 94's in 30-30 to say that it is any type of proof when comparing to what NEF is producing is rather stupid...Since the mod 94 is a legend in it's own right...no matter what it was chambered in and they are 2 totally different platforms.....

.It's very easy to see that the potintial for the cartridge is even greater than what a 308 can do...on top of that..it is already a rimmed cartridge so it will lend itself nicely to the Handi platform...and brass isn't limited to the once a year run the 307 suffers with...My data shows the 30-40 Krag holds 56.38 grains of water to that of 44.50grains for the 30-30...this is a sizable increase over a 30-30...and in a Handi can produce a considerable increase for velocity...The whole point to wanting something better is a personal preference...and to say the 30-30 is superior to a 30-40 Krag isn't taking into account the potential of it...or in it's Improved form in a Handi rifle...I believe MT30-30 has both...and would be a good person to ask about it...The 30-30 is a great cartridge...always has been...always will be so too is the 30-40 Krag...either in the stanadard version or the improved...

BTW....try finding a Ruger #1 or 3 chambered for this round...they are very scarce...and quite collectable...And as to wither the fine folks at Marlin/NEF will ever chamber a Handi in it...this remains to be seen if it will be...and believe me when I say this...it is a real possibility that this cartridge and others will be...so...if you don't like reading this...sorry...other folks just feel differently than you do about it...in as such...have a different opinion on it...in which they are well within their rights to express them here......and...I for 1 would certainly like to see it added to the Handi rifle line up...

Mac

Fred M · « **Reply #11 on:** November 11, 2006, 11:49:46 AM »

Mac.
Why don't read what I am saying instead coming accross with a long winded story and calling what I said stupid. Is that the best you can do?

It must be H&R that is stupid by making 30-30, 308, 30-06 instead of the Krag.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 11, 2006, 12:05:51 PM »

Quote from: Fred M on November 11, 2006, 11:49:46 AM

Mac.
Why don't read what I am saying instead coming accross with a long winded story and calling what I said stupid. Is that the best you can do?

It must be H&R that is stupid by making 30-30, 308, 30-06 instead of the Krag.

Fred...I read exactly what you said...and this Sir... is my point...Swampman has a right to his opinion...wither you like it or not...wither or not you want to read it......Did I say NEF was stupid in making those caliber available...no...what I said was you were making a stupid comparison...by comparing a totally different platform from the Handi and tryng to equate that with sales of the NEF.....Next time...try reading what I said...and not taking it out of context...

Mac

acloco · « **Reply #13 on:** November 11, 2006, 12:41:25 PM »

Gents...BOTH calibers had their place.

There is diehards for both.

Realistically....both of you are arguing wants versus needs.

Do we really NEED all the calibers available? Um...no. Need a shotgun for birdseason (make it with a slug barrel to swap with for the non rifle states), a 223, and a 300 Win Mag (I orginally typed 30-06 - but what if somebody really had to go after a bison?).

Now...hehe....be respectful gents.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 11, 2006, 12:41:57 PM »

Just to see what the numbers realy were i did a side by side @ ammo guide . 30/30 verses 30/40

http://ammoguide.com/?tool=bcompare&it=94%7c95

it takes a few sec. to load .

stimpy

Mac11700 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 11, 2006, 01:02:11 PM »

Quote

Realistically....both of you are arguing wants versus needs.

Actually no...I'm stating that Swampman is intitaled to his opinion...and has a right to post it...wither someone wants to read about it or not...

Stimp...good comparison...it shows the potintial of the cartridge quite nice..

Mac

OBXPilgrim · « **Reply #16 on:** November 11, 2006, 01:06:50 PM »

Kinda like when someone really wants a 257 roberts when a 25-06 will do.

I'm still thinking about rechambering my 7.62x39 to .303 British..just because.

Swampman · « **Reply #17 on:** November 11, 2006, 01:23:46 PM »

I love the 30-30, 308, & 30-06 but I'd only consider the .30-30 in the Handi. I don't want any rimless cartridges in my single shot rifles. Just watch the "I'm having problems with my NEF Handirfle" threads and you'll see why. I'd pay good money for a .30-40 Ruger #3.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** November 11, 2006, 02:30:19 PM »

Fred, you shouldn't be picking on the Krag, remember your opinion on the 35 Whelen?

Tim

jason280 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 11, 2006, 02:44:52 PM »

I agree with you on the rimmed cartridges in the Handi. However, most of the problems have been alleviated with the advent of extractors for all cartridges, regardless of rimmed or rimless.

Fred, You really lost with your comments. I mean, I've heard some real stretches in my time, but you really got carried away.

Quote

it is not as easy shooting as a 30-30

What does that mean? If you mean recoil, then neither is the .308.

Quote

It is not in the same class

Once again, what do you mean? The .30-40 is ballistically superior to the .30-30 in all respects, and blows it out of the water when properly handloaded.

Quote

You know why, because it is the best suited cartrige for the Handi and everybody and his dog wants one and over a million Win 94 proof the point

Do you have any figures to show how the .30-30 sells compared to the other Handi cartridges? More to the point, what do sales figures for the Winchester 94 even prove? Last I checked, its been discontinued by Winchester...

Quote

Ruger made the the #3 in a 30-40 Krag, if it was so desireable why did the quit making it? Because it did not sell like a 308 or 30-06

Wow. First, how many more No. 3's in .308 and .30-06 were sold compared to the Krag? In case you have a hard time figuring that one out, Ruger never offered the No. 3 in .308 or .30-06 (so comparing them is worthless). Second, you asked why Ruger, in all its wisdom, would cease producing the No. 3 in .30-40 Krag if "it was so desireable". Well, it would probably have a lot to do with the fact that they DISCONTINUED THE NO. 3 ALL TOGETHER!

I have a difficult time following your logic, and all I really see are contradictions. You use the discontinued 94 .30-30 to support why the .30-30 is the best suited Handi cartridge, and in the same post, you use the discontinued No. 3 in .30-40 Krag to support why the Krag is not well suited for the Handi. Talk about speaking out of both sides of your mouth!

Quote

I don't even like reading a bout a 30-40 Krag.

But you certainly don't mind posting about it...

myarmor · « **Reply #20 on:** November 11, 2006, 03:09:46 PM »

I don't know much about the 30-40 Krag or 307, so I won't pretend to by any means.
All I can say is that I am a happy 308 owner...it does all I need that either of these calibers do, for me. And the versitility is excellent.
I guess it's true, "To each his own"

-Aaron

Swampman · « **Reply #21 on:** November 11, 2006, 03:24:40 PM »

I'm a happy .308 owner too. It's a 700 Remington BDL. It's perhaps my favorite cartridge. For bolt actions, pumps, & semi-autos. It's the perfect deer cartridge.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 11, 2006, 03:28:37 PM »

Quote from: myarmor on November 11, 2006, 03:09:46 PM

I don't know much about the 30-40 Krag or 307, so I won't pretend to by any means.
All I can say is that I am a happy 308 owner...it does all I need that either of these calibers do, for me. And the versitility is excellent.
I guess it's true, "To each his own"

-Aaron

Absolutly...to each his own...and this is why we can discuss all the cartridges we want in them...some work..some won't..and verity is the spice of life...otherwise is just gets boring...

Mac

Fred M · « **Reply #23 on:** November 11, 2006, 06:45:46 PM »

jason280.

Fred, you really lost with your comments. I mean, I've heard some real stretches in my time, but you really got carried away. Yes Perhaps I did.
Quote
It is not as easy shooting as a 30-30

What does that mean? If you mean recoil, then neither is the .308. Of course I am talking Krag, the 30-30 is easier to shoot and more liked by many.Quote
It is not in the same class

Once again, what do you mean? [What I mean the 30-40 is not any where near as popular as the 30-30 and never will be... A 30-06 properly hand loaded will blow the Krag out of the water so where does that leave the Krag. The Krag never cut it as a military round nor had it much following as a civil one. I never said the 30-30 was ballistically superior to the Krag.

You know why, because it is the best suited cartridge for the Handi and everybody and his dog wants one and over a million Win 94 proofs the point

This goes back to the 30-30 cartridge not the 94 rifle but these two go together. The popularity and the cartridge goes back over hundred years and is still being chambered. Where does that leave the Krag, no I don’t have any figures. It came about the subject of short Handi supplies.

Ruger made the #3 in a 30-40 Krag, if it was so desirable why did the quit making it? Because it did not sell like a 308 or 30-06

Yes I do know that the 308 and the 06 were never chambered in the #3. But if the Krag cartridge was so hot why did they discontinue the caliber, when all they had to do is stick the Krag barrel on a #1 with no trouble.

The #3 and the #1 are the same action except the leaver and the trigger I have one of each. But to think about that would require some insight. Since I have a #3 I am aware that the #3 was discontinued!

I admit that my writing was perhaps somewhat confusing. I am not the best writer. I hope this will set you a ease. No I don't like writing about th Krag, this will be the last time. The Krag is a dead horse so why beat it and harp about it?

Jason. perhaps I should send you my posts for proof reading so you wont have to guess what I mean

Tim, we will see how long the 35Whelen will stay in production. All I heard sofar are problems. Also it is a better round than the Krag, I have to admit.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 11, 2006, 07:34:40 PM »

Quote

The Krag is a dead horse so why beat it and harp about it?

Simple really...Because he wants one...and it would work good in a Handi...to bad you can't understand that...

Mac

mt3030 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 11, 2006, 08:07:02 PM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on November 11, 2006, 07:34:40 PM

Quote
The Krag is a dead horse so why beat it and harp about it?

Simple really...Because he wants one...and it would work good in a Handi...to bad you can't understand that...

Mac

Mac:
He doesn't want one bad enought, or he would just put his money where his mouth is and do one. He is one of these guys that would not be able to understand why a Handi owner would pay a premium for a 7x57 when you can just buy a 7-08, or why someone would pay to have a barrel rechambered to a 35 Remington when the barrel twist might not be ideal for all bullet weights. (Remember, we've had these conversations at Graybeard's before.)

Or why somesone would have a barrel rechambered to a 303 British when they can have a barrel rechambered to 30-40. Since he lacks any understanding to the desires of other Handi fans, I feel no need to defends him with his wants. All he can do is state and restate the same.

Next he'll be claiming that the 30-40 Krag is good for everything from squirrils to moose. I see him as another form of Troll, just stirring the pot. Ignore him until he has something new to say.

Just my two cents.

acloco · « **Reply #26 on:** November 11, 2006, 08:25:53 PM »

Troll...no.

Just have some, obviously experienced people, that are expressing their opinions.

mt3030 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 11, 2006, 09:01:16 PM »

Fred: Please let me comment on one of your statements.

"The 30-40 is dead." I guess we do not agree with this statement. If you mean there no rifle factory chambered for it at this time, you are correct. (Kind of like the 257 Roberts you have invested so much time and money in, huh?)

Do you mean because there are more powerful calibers in the Handi line up to choose from? (Kind of like the 25-06 compared to the 257 Roberts you have invested so much time and money in, huh?)

Do you mean that factory loads are limited? (Kind of like the 257 Roberts, huh?)

Don't misunderstand me. I love the 257 Roberts also. My Browning BLR has done very well for me on both antelope and deer. (In fact, my buyer had to go to Canada to bid and get it from an estate sale for me.)

I have had several Handis in 30-40. The one I have right now was rechambered from an early SB2 30-30 so I could have the cut (pre-microgroove) rifling. (I have found these better for cast bullets.) Why did I have the first one done? Because I wanted something just a little more then the 30-30 could give me. This was done with a H&R Topper, before the NEFs were available in 308 (with which I have had nothing but bad luck) and 30-06. With it I was able to better the 30-30 loads very easly. And as a kid growing up in western Washington, I heard tales from the hunters returning from moose hunting in British Columbia how well the 303 worked on moose, and everyone agreed the 303 and 30-40 were ballistically the same.

I know you are a fan of the 303. And if the 303 and the 30-40 are ballistically equals, do you think the 303 is dead also? I would have a hard time believing that, since I know a heck of a lot of deer and probably moose are still killed with it every year in Canada. (I spent some time in Whitehorse, and 303s were everywhere.)

In summary, the 30-40 Toppers/Handis have worked well for me. An inexpensive rechamber. No changes needed to the extractor. Case design and working pressures have given me no extraction problems, unlike the 308s I've tried. And probably most important to me, it is a Classic, just like the 303 British and 257 Roberts. And, I just wanted one.

ncpreacherboy1 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 12, 2006, 01:22:03 AM »

" Say Hello to the Standardized 30-30 Improved. Wow! "

man where did this thread make a wrong turn?

hunman55 · « **Reply #29 on:** November 12, 2006, 01:56:32 AM »

:)Hi, guys. All these 30 cals. are great in their applications and all depend on the person pulling the trigger. I own a 30-30AI in a Topper 158 and a 7.62-39 and 308 in a Handi and would buy a 30-40 OR a 303 tomorrow if they offered them. We are all entitled to our opinions and that what makes this forum so good. Hunman55