PA Flintlock season

[Smokepole cowboy]

I am trying to get peep sights legalized for use in Pennsylvania’s flintlock season. As the
rules are right now we are limited to"Iron open V or notch sights only.  Fiber optic inserts
permitted.

As we all get older, many of us start to experience farsightedness and the rear sight
becomes fuzzy.  Fiber optic sights do not help with this problem.  Peep sights, while
offering no magnification advantage, solve this problem.  Many of the original flintlocks
from the era had peep tang sights on them.

If you hunt in the PA flintlock season, or ever plan to, please write one of the
commissioners and urge them to consider this. 

A list of the commissioners is available on the PGC website at
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=481&q=151287&pgcNav=|

Pennsylvania Game Commission
2001 Elmerton Avenue
Harrisburg, PA 17110-9797

Thank you.
This posting was pre-approved by Graybeard.

[loaded4bear]

If a lawsuit filed against the U.S. Dept. of the Interior by the North American Muzzleloading Hunting Association prevails, we'll see more than just peep sights coming to a flintlock season near you!

This lawsuit was filed under the premise Smokepole cowboy sighted, that aging hunters need "better" sighting implements to effectively engage in muzzleloader hunting as their vision deteriorates with age. Under the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), any state that recieves ANY federal monies for their wildlife management programs (ie. ALL 50 STATES) are required to make provisions for hunters with "disabilities" (ie. poor eyesight) to pursue their sport. This means that not only peep sights, but scopes and red dot sights must also be permitted. Any state not in compliance with the ruling (if the lawsuit is successful) would risk losing all federal monies earmarked for their state's wildlife management programs. The amount of money involved runs into the millions of dollars, so non-compliance wouldn't be an option for the states as their programs would collapse without this federal money.

Just something to think about...you can view the whole article here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1677748/posts

[Woodbutcher]

 Keep the Govt. and beaureaucrats as far away from this as possible! We don't need any more fooling around with hunting season! It's a sport, not a law exam!
                                                                                         Woodbutcher

[slayer]

Keep the Govt. and beaureaucrats as far away from this as possible! We don't need any more fooling around with hunting season! It's a sport, not a law exam!
                                                                                         Woodbutcher

I agree. I like our Flintlock season the way it is, but I would except Peep sights as they were around in those days. No caplocks, inlines or scopes though or sabots. You can use all of that in our rifle season. Own a flintlock, but I own the others also and use inlines and all of them in rifle season and early antlerless muzzleloader season .Our late Flintlock season is special to us in PA, let`s not ruin it with too much technology, but I would accept Peep sights. Jack.

[manofthe45]

Keep the Govt. and beaureaucrats as far away from this as possible! We don't need any more fooling around with hunting season! It's a sport, not a law exam!
                                                                                         Woodbutcher

I agree. I like our Flintlock season the way it is, but I would except Peep sights as they were around in those days. No caplocks, inlines or scopes though or sabots. You can use all of that in our rifle season. Own a flintlock, but I own the others also and use inlines and all of them in rifle season and early antlerless muzzleloader season .Our late Flintlock season is special to us in PA, let`s not ruin it with too much technology, but I would accept Peep sights. Jack.

Got to agree with slayer except on the caplock part.  IMO caplocks are not technologically advanced.  Heck what is it the T/C "firestorm" is built around pellet powder and is completly legal. The only  very slight advantage I see is rainy day, but for me if its raining I just take the 209x50 encore or my 300.  Please don't blast me I hunt in 5c perfectly legal. Anyway my opinion.  Peepsites definatly get my vote, but I see no need for scopes in our late season.

[Smokepole cowboy]

I agree, no scopes, but I don't see why peep sights aren't allowed.  Most of the original flintlocks had them.

[huntmdown]

I agree with Smokepole! 

[Woodbutcher]

 I must confess that I really don't care what you use for hunting. You're a hunter. If we stick together, we'll be fine. If the govt. and beaurocrats get involved dissapointing things happen. Bad for us.
 If you and I argue over a point, so what, we've had a little exercise, and we can laugh at each other. Govt. involvement ain't no laughing matter. What loaded4bear wrote is what I'm talking about. That's very bad. Opens the door wide for meddling by those who would hurt us much worse.
 There are those who want all hunting and gun ownership stopped. They know it won't be done all at once, so they'll work by inches.
 Do I disagree with you? No! Do I like your idea, kind hearted as it is? Doesn't matter! But how can your ideas be achieved without playing into the plans of those who would ultimately hurt us all?
 Boy, do I ever wish I could be at a club range with you. OH, the insults! You'd either be blind with rage or helpless with laughter! Wouldn't matter what kind of equipment you use, I'd have fun!
                                                                              Woodbutcher   

[jpsmith1]

Next, we'll have 'traditional' hunters using the new 'smokeless' muzzle loader and shooting deer from the back of a quad.

If ADA gets involved, there is a VERY simple solution.  Make those who want an exemption get a disabled permit.  No different than getting a disabled permit for your car.  If you've got the license, you can carry any type of muzzleloader that you want.  No permit, no deal.

I've always questioned the no peep sight rule myself.  The peep sight, to me, is probably the finest non-optical sight a rifle can wear and has been around for a good many years.

Government involvement always generates the exact opposite of it's stated intent.

[manofthe45]

I must confess that I really don't care what you use for hunting. You're a hunter. If we stick together, we'll be fine. If the govt. and beaurocrats get involved dissapointing things happen. Bad for us.
 If you and I argue over a point, so what, we've had a little exercise, and we can laugh at each other. Govt. involvement ain't no laughing matter. What loaded4bear wrote is what I'm talking about. That's very bad. Opens the door wide for meddling by those who would hurt us much worse.
 There are those who want all hunting and gun ownership stopped. They know it won't be done all at once, so they'll work by inches.
 Do I disagree with you? No! Do I like your idea, kind hearted as it is? Doesn't matter! But how can your ideas be achieved without playing into the plans of those who would ultimately hurt us all?


Counldn't agree with you more about Gov't interferance being bad.


 Boy, do I ever wish I could be at a club range with you. OH, the insults! You'd either be blind with rage or helpless with laughter! Wouldn't matter what kind of equipment you use, I'd have fun!
                                                                              Woodbutcher 

  Who are you talking to?  

[Woodbutcher]

 OOPS! Copy and paste error from another message. Sorry bout that! Woodbutcher

[flabbydan]

Sometimes I think the PA Game Commission gets a bum rap on a lot of things.  But gimme a break!!!  They allow fiber optics on a flintlock, but not a peep  .

[loaded4bear]

I must confess that I really don't care what you use for hunting. You're a hunter. If we stick together, we'll be fine. If the govt. and beaurocrats get involved dissapointing things happen. Bad for us.
 If you and I argue over a point, so what, we've had a little exercise, and we can laugh at each other. Govt. involvement ain't no laughing matter. What loaded4bear wrote is what I'm talking about. That's very bad. Opens the door wide for meddling by those who would hurt us much worse.
 There are those who want all hunting and gun ownership stopped. They know it won't be done all at once, so they'll work by inches.
 Do I disagree with you? No! Do I like your idea, kind hearted as it is? Doesn't matter! But how can your ideas be achieved without playing into the plans of those who would ultimately hurt us all?
 Boy, do I ever wish I could be at a club range with you. OH, the insults! You'd either be blind with rage or helpless with laughter! Wouldn't matter what kind of equipment you use, I'd have fun!
                                                                              Woodbutcher   

What I posted above was merely for informational purposes. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's party here. I hunt with an in-line muzzleloader during the regular firearms season. I'll leave the primitive season to those wishing to hunt with "primitive" arms. I wholeheartedly agree with Woodbutcher, however, that the best & quickest way to ruin anything is to allow government to come on in and regulate it!

[slayer]

I agree, let the PGC decide what and what we cannot use, even if I dissagree with them. The government mostly ruins anything they put their greedy little hands on, I don`t want them involved in my hunting and guns. Jack.

[wiktor]

I have wanted to use a tang sight for years and didn't know how to go about trying to get change. So writing to the comissioners is the way to go?! It is a joke that fiber optic sights are allowed but not peeps.

[slayer]

I have wanted to use a tang sight for years and didn't know how to go about trying to get change. So writing to the comissioners is the way to go?! It is a joke that fiber optic sights are allowed but not peeps.

I agree, makes no sense at all. Some of our rules for aour seasons make no sense, ryme or reason. Jack.

[Smokepole cowboy]

News  Release #011-07

The Board also gave preliminary approval to allow the use of aperture or peep sights during the flintlock muzzleloader season;

It is looking good.

[Davemuzz]

Hey.....I say let's allow Thompson machine guns with no less (now....that is NO LESS) than the 100 round clips AND we would have 4 hunters bungeed into the back of a pickup....rippin thru the gamelands. You could shoot as many deer as you have tags. If the deer falls and you see it fall, that would count as a used tag.

Just an extrem view of taking care of the perceived overpopulation of deer.

Sorry guys.....I'll go find my medication now.

Dave.

[manofthe45]

Hey.....I say let's allow Thompson machine guns with no less (now....that is NO LESS) than the 100 round clips AND we would have 4 hunters bungeed into the back of a pickup....rippin thru the gamelands. You could shoot as many deer as you have tags. If the deer falls and you see it fall, that would count as a used tag.

Just an extrem view of taking care of the perceived overpopulation of deer.

Sorry guys.....I'll go find my medication now.

Dave.

I'd also suggest a straight jacket and gag.

[K.K]

I think that anything that will increase the chances of a humane, killing shot should be legal, and a peep sight is sort of period-correct, and may help many with accuracy.  It's not like they will turn your flintlock into a repeater or scope-mounted centerfire! 

[Davemuzz]

Hey.....I say let's allow Thompson machine guns with no less (now....that is NO LESS) than the 100 round clips AND we would have 4 hunters bungeed into the back of a pickup....rippin thru the gamelands. You could shoot as many deer as you have tags. If the deer falls and you see it fall, that would count as a used tag.

Just an extrem view of taking care of the perceived overpopulation of deer.

Sorry guys.....I'll go find my medication now.

Dave.

I'd also suggest a straight jacket and gag.

Yeah.....but I can still type.

[manofthe45]

 
[/quote]

Yeah.....but I can still type.
[/quote]


there are some things that just can't be helped.  Like having to deal with the 1000's of armchair weekend warriors that sit for three hours on opening day in the same spot every year less than 500 yds from the road and then complain that there are no deer.  So keep typing Dave I'd rather read about your medication fallouts then the same old GC bashing

[Davemuzz]

there are some things that just can't be helped.  Like having to deal with the 1000's of armchair weekend warriors that sit for three hours on opening day in the same spot every year less than 500 yds from the road and then complain that there are no deer.  So keep typing Dave I'd rather read about your medication fallouts then the same old GC bashing

Hmmmmm.......a man of higher thinking. Like an albino deer. When one is found, the rest of the hunters want to kill it. The deer with a gun, the higher thinker with truck-loads of words. 

[manofthe45]

there are some things that just can't be helped.  Like having to deal with the 1000's of armchair weekend warriors that sit for three hours on opening day in the same spot every year less than 500 yds from the road and then complain that there are no deer.  So keep typing Dave I'd rather read about your medication fallouts then the same old GC bashing

Hmmmmm.......a man of higher thinking. Like an albino deer. When one is found, the rest of the hunters want to kill it. The deer with a gun, the higher thinker with truck-loads of words. 

Dave care to share some of that great medication.  I usually self-medicate with jim beam, but what ever you got beats mine hands down.  Even if I'm being slammed I am laughing my arse off

[Davemuzz]

Ahh....Crown 'n Ginger Ale is my favorite and first choice. But, hey....if Crown isn't available, just pull down what's on the shelf.

As far as the rest of the med's I take....oh man....way too many. Stick with what you got....it's much better.

Dave.

[tundragriz]

I love flintlock hunting and took some hunts out west (unsuccessful) where inlines rule.  Just can't bring myself to use anything other than a flintlock.  Cruising into my mid 50s I have serious issues with sighting, to the point I almost can't shoot with any sort of mechanical sight.  My Lyman GPH I use out west has a peep sight but it really doesn't work anymore.  At some point you will lose focus of the front sight and all bets are off. 

I recently hunted Utah and there even inlines can only use optics with no magnification.  Personally, I like this.  Maybe with a doctors certificate of vision degradation beyond a certain level a non magnifying optic might be allowed here in Pa.  I use a red dot on my shotgun and even better I like the holosights, although I haven't bought one yet.  In all likelihood I will for my hunting handguns, same sight issues with them and I prefer not to use a scope.

Something I have found that is now working for me is to carry a pair of my early reading glasses.  Now I am at about a 2.5 correction factor but if I carry a 1 - 1.25 I find the front sight is very crisp, rear sight is a little blurry, target is only marginally blurry.  All in all it presents a pretty acceptable sight picture.  Fellow old geezers give it a try!