Author Topic: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?  (Read 3685 times)

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Offline kombi1976

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H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« on: November 09, 2006, 07:28:16 PM »
I normally wouldn't ask this but is it possible if someone could tell me some of the stuff from Frank DeHaas's Single Shot Rifles & Actions?
I live in Australia and obtaining this particular book is nearwell impossible.
I have a Pieper barrelled reciever in 297/230 and a friend has another in 32-20 which he will happily donate to me if I could restore it.
So far I've found zip on the specifics of these and all I can say is that they are similar to a Martini Cadet but have different levers, extractors, trigger mechanisms, etc.
Could someone please scan a pic or 2 on the H.Pieper Marksman from the DeHaas book so I know if I'm on the right track.
The pair of these little rook rifles deserve restoration but I'm totally at sea at present.
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline Sir Charles deMoutonBlack

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2006, 04:18:12 AM »
Chapter 51 covers the H. Peiper (Belgian) Marksman action.  It is a very simple action with the breech block and fingerlever in one piece, hinged forward in a frame similar to Stevens Favorite.  The hammer has a shoulder that locks the block on firing like a Remington.  Does that sound like your action?  My copy of ssr&a is so fragile that I hesitate to lay it on a scanner for fear of breaking it's back.  I will retype parts of the text, if you have a question.

Offline kombi1976

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2006, 05:10:28 AM »
Sadly the action I seek is not at all like the one you describe.
It's like Martini Cadet action but is different in specific ways that make parts not interchangable.
Here's a pic of the 297/230 action:

Here's one of the 32-20:

As you can see they're nothing like a Favourite.
Would be my luck to find 2 identical actions in with different chambers and not be able to find parts or even pics of them!
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline marlinman93

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2006, 01:22:42 PM »
 Really the Pieper is unlike almost any other action. The Stevens is a pivoting block action, while the Pieper's action utilizes a lever mounted block that is fixed to the lever, with a separate hammer to cock.
 I have a Belgian made Martini which is also in the 297/230 Morris Long. Mine also is completely different in it's size from any othr Martini action, but does seem to work identically to a Martini Cadet action. The striker on my rook rifle extends through the top of the block and is knurled on the end to facilitate lowering the striker. This is a nice feature, which also indicates if the action is cocked or not.
 Parts on your Pieper should be similar to a Cadet, although slightly different in size, so you would need to have them scaled anyway. Pictures of a Pieper Martini wont help a lot, as they wont have any measurements to build from.

 Here's mine at the bottom:

 
Ballard, the great American Rifles!

Offline kombi1976

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2006, 02:02:09 PM »
Quote from:  link=topic=103023.msg1098282882#msg1098282882 date=1163290962
Really the Pieper is unlike almost any other action. The Stevens is a pivoting block action, while the Pieper's action utilizes a lever mounted block that is fixed to the lever, with a separate hammer to ####.
 I have a Belgian made Martini which is also in the 297/230 Morris Long. Mine also is completely different in it's size from any othr Martini action, but does seem to work identically to a Martini Cadet action. The striker on my rook rifle extends through the top of the block and is knurled on the end to facilitate lowering the striker. This is a nice feature, which also indicates if the action is ###### or not.
 Parts on your Pieper should be similar to a Cadet, although slightly different in size, so you would need to have them scaled anyway. Pictures of a Pieper Martini wont help a lot, as they wont have any measurements to build from.

 Here's mine at the bottom:
marlinman93, that Belgian 297/230 action is IDENTICAL to the receivers I have.
This a big ask but could you take lots of pics of it, together and stripped, measure it and show me the different parts?
I have a few friends who are machinists and gunsmiths and would regard this as a challenge and I believe with the right details we could get these 2 guns working again.
This is the biggest breakthrough I have had in about 18 months on these.
Could you also take an pic of the entire rifle for me?
Here's another side on shot of the 297/230 receiver.

 
Thanks so much!!!! :) :)
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline Sir Charles deMoutonBlack

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2006, 05:20:22 AM »
Kombi;  The rifle that De Haas describes in his book is quite different.  Peiper must have had a wide range of products?

Offline kombi1976

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2006, 12:38:58 PM »
Pieper made a LOT of different arms and were part of the Leige group of arms manufacturers.
Unfortunately, as many of the Martini actions are quite similar it's hard to get definitive drawings of each different model.
And since very little needed to be altered to overcome patents the Belgians especially tended to take the existing actions and modify this or that then pass it off as their own improved design.
In effect and in practise the actions worked the same but obtaining parts or drawings of the myriad of Belgian knock-offs is virtually impossible.
Add to that the tendency of manufacturers to make modifications in production runs due for any number of reasons and you have a complete nightmare on your hands 100 years on. :(
There is probably a HUGE body of work ready to be written purely on Martini style small bore rifles.
Perhaps I'll have the expertise and understanding to try take this on one day.
At present I only own 3 Martinis and 2 of them are only actions, a BSA 310 Cadet action and a Citadel Martini Enfield action respectively.
But hopefully I'll have a chance to collect some of the more unusual offerings. ;)
They often only fetch around $200 to $250 in auctions here in Oz and are sweet little offerings as the pics of MarlinMan's rifles show.
Better still, apart from a couple of really odd British cartridges, many are chambered in 32-20, 300 Rook and 297/250 and brass is still quite obtainable for these cartridges, be it a little more expensive.
Anyhow, what I need to do now is persuade MarlinMan to get those drawings done for me.
I'm happy to pay for these but apparently he knows no one who could do this stuff. :-[
Any help guys? ???
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline marlinman93

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2006, 01:28:23 PM »
 If I take pictures of the internals, do you think your machinist could possibly scale from them?
 vall
Ballard, the great American Rifles!

Offline kombi1976

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2006, 04:30:52 PM »
If I take pictures of the internals, do you think your machinist could possibly scale from them?
 vall
It would certainly be a good place to start, Vall.
Sorry to hassle you like this, mate.
I'm just so excited to have something to go on.
I'll PM you my email address.
Thanks again.
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline sluggo

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2007, 05:54:48 AM »
...still need scans? I can e-mail them to you.
...there are many kinds of wounded, and only one kind of dead. Do it the Handi way, one shot, one kill.

Offline kombi1976

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2007, 08:52:15 PM »
Absolutely!!
I'm really trying to generate sort of a set of blueprints so one of my workmates can machine the parts up.
From there we can get both going.
I'll PM you my email address.
Thanks muchly.
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline corporalgungee

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2010, 10:03:34 AM »
SIR:
I just bought two H. Pieper Martini rifles yesterday ;  I bought them at auction from the same gentlemen.   I am a former US Marine Corps gunsmith and armorer ; that has also been to Collage for machine tool technology (machinist)  .   They are both in a rimfire cartridge that I believe is 32RF cal. and are low 4 digit serial numbered being only a few dozen apart .    Both my rifles need repair to the lock works and are missing all their springs, and need new firing pins; they are in other wise fine condition.  I will be working on getting them back to firing order and converting them to centerfire .   I may have to make new sear and hammer and cocking indicator pin for one as well as stock bolt.  The other one needing a new firing pin and springs only.  I have the means of fabricating these at my disposal.  I can share my notes and progress with you , and hope that you can do the same , for a mutually beneficial working relationship.  My rifles are the same as the one pictured in the link provided here on the bottom ; the top link is an index with history , that also shows the Remington style rolling block rifle.

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pieper%20henri%20gb.htm

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pieper%20h%20martini%20gb.htm

Offline kombi1976

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2010, 06:06:13 AM »
Corporal, I've been looking for someone who could help me with these for literally AGES. My rifles, and I use this word in the broadest terms, are in 32 WCF (32-20) and 297/230. They're closer to barreled receivers with a few extra parts. It's been a while since I had a close look at either. What I am missing is all springs, breech blocks, firing pins and manifold other parts. Sadly I'm no metal worker or gunsmith. Please keep me posted on your progress and I'll add what I can. If you would be kind enough to fabricate the parts you're making for me also we can sort out an arrangement and I'll have a dealer friend of mine arrange sort out the shipping.
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline Morerams

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2010, 04:40:00 AM »
Kombi, If you are coming near Brisbane I will be able to show you a complete one as soon as my PTA comes through (in a week or two). It is in 32-20.
Al
Al

Offline kombi1976

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2010, 06:13:44 AM »
Kombi, If you are coming near Brisbane I will be able to show you a complete one as soon as my PTA comes through (in a week or two). It is in 32-20.
Al
Can you send me some pics when it arrives, Al?
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline Morerams

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Re: H.Pieper Marksman in DeHaas's Singleshot Rifles & Actions?
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2010, 02:24:03 AM »
Should be able to.
Al