Author Topic: M96 Mauser Questions  (Read 2652 times)

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Offline bsbowles

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M96 Mauser Questions
« on: November 10, 2006, 01:09:53 PM »
Hello,
 This is my first post to the forum. I bought an M96 Mauser 6.5 X 55 (Carl Gustafs - 1908) about 15 years ago and I have yet to shoot it. I have some questions regarding the bore disk on the butt stock. I have done some research on the web and I have gotten some conflicting info on the bore condition. Some say the number in the triangle in the smallest area is the bore condition. Mine has a "1" in the smallest area but there is an indention above the three. I believe the bore condition is three in this rifle. If so, is it worth shooting. The bore is clean and the action is in great shape. All of the numbers match except for the cleaning rod. I have taken the rifle out on several occassions over the years and re-lubed the bore to prevent rust. Should I buy any ammo and try it, re-barrel, hang it on the wall? What do you think? I know from searching on the web there are a ton more accessories for M98's than M96's.

I have the original sights but I have recently installed a Williams aperture sight because it was sighted for a minimum of 300 meters.

Offline acloco

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2006, 07:28:43 AM »
Tell me you did not drill the receiver....

Shoot the rifle.

Buy a taller front sight from Sarco...for $8 and use the standard sight.

If you drilled the receiver, the rifle value decreased.....

Offline bsbowles

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2006, 12:08:24 PM »
No the receiver isn't drilled. The aperture sight fits into the original cradle and uses the original pin to hold it. It is held in place by the pressure of the spring. I'll check out SARCO. I bought 20 rounds of ammo at Gander Mountain this morning. I am ready to take the rifle out of retirement.

Offline simonkenton

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2006, 01:54:29 PM »
Even if it is a three bore it may turn out to be the most accurate rifle you own.
Shoot it, and give us the range report.
Aim small don't miss.

Offline jh45gun

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2006, 03:36:40 PM »
There will be a triangle stamped above the number of the condition of the bore. Mine is stamped above the one on mine. What the guys say is true even a 3 condition rifle normally will shoot better then most rifles. These are accurate well made guns.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline acloco

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2006, 03:53:00 PM »
WHEW!

Give the barrel a good cleaning.  Bolt too.  You might want to take the bolt apart, it is easy.  Usually lots of cosmoline hiding in there.

No bull....but, even with standard open sights, I will put any of my Swedes or my Swiss K31 up against any sporting rifle....at distances 300 yards and over.  And I make that claim with anybody shooting the rifles (within reason).

The rifles are well built and very accurate.


Offline Slamfire

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2006, 05:24:15 PM »
The 1, 2, and 3 numbering system was used to determine the condition of the bore. The Swedish issue ammo was steel jacketed with a thin layer of copper alloy. Additionally, the original powders were pretty erosive in small bores like the 6.5. A 1 indicated a new barrel and a 3 indicated one that would go back to the arsenal for rebarreling. That doesn't mean it won't shoot well, as the bore condiditon also took into account the size of the bore. This is indicated by the series of numbers on the second largest segment of the disc.
Bold talk from a one eyed fat man.

Offline bucktales

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2006, 05:26:25 PM »
See Dutchman's site:

www.rebooty.com/~dutchman/

Offline bsbowles

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2006, 08:56:38 AM »
Thanks for all of the advice. My main concern for the bore condition is that I can see this being one of my favorite rifle to shoot if it is accurate. I just wonder how much service life is left in the barrel if I shoot it regularly. I was checking out all of the rifles at Gander Mountain spending a lot of time handling them and working the actions and none of them were any better as far as build quality than my M96. I would probably have to spend well over $1000.00 (maybe more) to get the same quality in a new rifle. Even the stamp marks are cleaner on my 100 year old rifle than some of the new ones. From what I have read about the 6.5 X 55 swedish, this round is one of the best but most of the new rifles only have 22 inch barrels. I would like to have at least a 24 inch.



Offline acloco

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2006, 12:02:13 PM »
About 5000 more rounds.....maybe 8000.

Offline jh45gun

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2006, 12:59:28 PM »
Short barrels are stiffer and usually for that reason more accurate. My 15 inch Encore barrel ( pistol)  in 308 will match and in some cases beat many rifles.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline simonkenton

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2006, 02:53:29 PM »
The Swedish Mauser is regarded as the most accurate Mauser.
There were 103 million Mausers made. There were only 850,000 Swedish Mausers made.
They are also made of some of the finest steel and wood ever used on a rifle.
Shoot Shoot Shoot
Aim small don't miss.

Offline bsbowles

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2006, 04:07:54 PM »
About 5000 more rounds.....maybe 8000.


Well if you are right then I will be able to shoot over $6000.00 worth of ammo (at today's prices) in this rifle before I wear it out. I think my bank account will wear out before that happens. Looks like I'm going to be shooting it regularly.

Offline jh45gun

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2006, 04:42:50 PM »
About 5000 more rounds.....maybe 8000.


Well if you are right then I will be able to shoot over $6000.00 worth of ammo (at today's prices) in this rifle before I wear it out. I think my bank account will wear out before that happens. Looks like I'm going to be shooting it regularly.

If you reload and keep your loads moderate instead of hot rodding them that also will prolong your barrel life.

I load mine it the 2400 FPS range and it is a mild very accurate loading that does not abuse the gun or me.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline acloco

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2006, 10:32:47 AM »
About 5000 more rounds.....maybe 8000.


Well if you are right then I will be able to shoot over $6000.00 worth of ammo (at today's prices) in this rifle before I wear it out. I think my bank account will wear out before that happens. Looks like I'm going to be shooting it regularly.

No kidding...I am probably in the ballpark...especially if you follow jh45gun's advice.

I have three M96's.  One, bone stock, all matching - everything.  Next - from Sweden's version of CMP - all matching, with diopter site (receiver drilled and tapped in Sweden) - has the owner's name engraved on a plate - cover the bore condition tag.  Lastly - completely non matching - and I added a Timney trigger - this is the one that I shoot.

Practice, practice, practice.  On most days, if not all, I can beat any of the local CMP matches with any of my Swedes or my Swiss.  The best part......let's go at 3/4/5/600 or more yards........I guarantee these rifles will really shine then.  I would enter a contest against any scoped over the counter rifle that does not have a bull or tactical barrel. They are accurate!!!

I am NOT being boastful about myself or because I own these.....it is truly the craftsmanship and the quality of these rifles that allows the above statement.

Offline pascalp

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2006, 12:03:02 PM »
You may try an M38 husky, same quality as M96. Shorter barrel, 600m rear sight and bent bolt (for some). Put  a rear mojosight on mine.




6.50mm bore, condition #2

Offline simonkenton

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2006, 03:22:12 PM »
   Here is a report from Mr. Crufflestopheles on a three bore Swede

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/cruffler/Pages/m96.htm


M1896 Swedish Mauser
6.5x55

This is one of the few perfectly good milsurp rifles that I sporterized. Back when wholesale on M96 Swedes was in the 60-80$ range, I bought 4 of them. I picked the worst of them to sporterize. It had an arsenal repaired stock that was well dinged up, the rear reciever had two holes in it, filled with brass plugs, and the disc indicated a condition "3" bore. At that time I had no idea that the "3" of the Swedes was often better than many other countries new rifles in terms of accuracy. The modifications are simple on this one: I replaced the arsenal repaired stock with a used one picked up at a gunshow, added the Holden Ironsighter see through scope mounts, had the smith bend the bolt, and added sling swivels and a Harris bipod. I added a Tasco 4x16 HighCountry scope. I bore sighted it, and after just three shots of factory Remington loads, I began grinning like an idiot. I knew I had a winner. Click here to see my targets shot w/ handloads. So a total investment of $300, including the scope and bipod, I have the most accurate rifle I have ever fired. I can regularly womp groundhogs (and one coyote!) out two 250-275 yards. I dream of taking this out west someday for some prairedog shooting at 300-500 yards.

m96bipod.JPG (42365 bytes)
   

This target is typical for this particular Swedish M96 rifle. I can usually group my best loads  with almost all shots touching, though it seems to always throw one off, like #5 below. Still, who would expect this accuracy from a 100 year old $75 rifle @ 100 yards?

This load was 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tips, 43gr of IMR 4895 powder, PMC brass & winchester WLR primers. Lee Factory Crimp Die.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know that the thought of "sporterizing" is anathema to many of us. Here is Mr. Crufflestopheles' philosophy on sporterizing:

"Misericordia.

I confess. Though I collect vintage military weapons I have sporterized a few as well.

In my defence, I try to only sporterize those that other people have butchered already. In this case I choose the minima de malis, so to speak, and turn these butchered, maimed, tortured pieces of history into redeemed beauties, mirabile visu.

What is "Sporterizing"? Essentially, that is the process by which one takes a firearm in military trim, discards those features that are strictly military and/or counterproductive or useless in a comparable civilian or 'sporting' firearm. Typical changes would include removing all non-essential weight, adding telescopic sights, changing it to a more commonly available civilian calibre. Shortening the length of the barrel and replacing or re-contouring the stock are also common changes. One may not save money over the price of a commercial firearm, but one will have a firearm that is typically unique to the owner. (another reason to 'sporterize'.) Please note that I do not encourage anyone to butcher a military piece that is in original condition or restorable thereto. Those pieces should be treasured and preserved as historical relics worthy of collection and study. There are more than enough already butchered pieces at pawns, gun-shops, shows and peoples basements to satisfy the most voracious appetite to customize."



 

Aim small don't miss.

Offline Mikey

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2006, 03:28:13 AM »
Both my Swedes carry #3 bores.  My Ljungman will group under 2" at 100 yds with those miserable sights.  My sporterized M38 regularly busts chucks and coyotes at 300m.  I had the chance to play around at a 300 yd range one day.  I knew the M38 shot snake-eyes at 150 and expected about 4" at 300 - but was very happy with the 2" groups I got at 300m.  I thought I could have done better if my scope could magnify more than 4.5x but I am content with it the way it is.  That Swede outshoots every other rifle I own, except for my Swede (Husky) 98 in 8mm.  Mikey.

Offline nighthawk80

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2006, 06:26:19 AM »
Ok, I have been trying to find an M38 or an M96 online. do you know where I can find one? I have been wanting one of these for about a year now. And since I just recieved my c&r, I can order one. I haven't seen any at the local gun show yet. Thanks
 

Offline simonkenton

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2006, 10:41:25 AM »
OK, here is one for $325. That is a fairly typical price these days. This guy is a very reputable dealer.

http://www.allans-armory.com/aaresult.php?PageId=59

If you don't get that one from allan's armory, keep your eye out on empirearms.com
They are likewise very reputable. They usually have a couple Swedes, but I just checked with them, and none for sale just now.
Aim small don't miss.

Offline Maryland Hunter

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2006, 10:44:48 AM »
ALthough I haven't shot my 96 Swede yet, I know the two previous owners of it pretty well, and they both got 2"@100yds, using S&B and Remington factory ammo. The bore is a grade #3, and looks awful but apparantly shoots pretty tight.

MH 

Offline procrastinator43

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2006, 05:08:47 AM »
The FSR Rifle mentioned, does the plate on the stock look like this?
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=1707923&uid=716160&members=1

Offline acloco

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2006, 10:45:18 AM »
The FSR Rifle mentioned, does the plate on the stock look like this?
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=1707923&uid=716160&members=1

Looks IDENTICAL.  SAME name as well.  Helmer must have been quite the shooter?!?!?!

Offline jmckinley

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2006, 02:51:54 AM »
 ;) I have been trying to find an original Swede with zero luck. Mine is a 98 sporter and it is simply the most accurate rifle I have ever shot period. I put 3 3shot groups at 100yds into 3/8" and I can't shoot any better. If the bore is clean enjoy. You have a great rifle. Jess
Jess

Offline bsbowles

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2006, 12:19:15 PM »
Yes I feel really lucky to have a good Swede. The weird thing is that when I bought this rifle about 15 years ago I didn't even know what I was buying. I only bought it because it looked cool and the price was right( I was only 20 years old at the time). Back then Mausers, Enfields, and Mosin Nagants were plentiful. I can't even remember what I paid for it. I was lucky I didn't get taken. Recently I have seen a bunch of junk for sale with dark bores and mismatched numbers. I would like to get a crappy 98 with a beat up stock but decent bore and action and sporterize it.

Offline simonkenton

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2006, 04:52:58 AM »
I lucked into my first Swedes.
There was a gun shop in Atlanta that used to sell a pretty good supply of milsurps, they would have 50 or 60 guns in there at any given time.
One day, in 1990 I went in, and the floor rack had 200 Swedish Mausers. The 3 bores were $100, the 2 bores were $125, and the 1 bores were $150.
I had never heard of a Swedish Mauser. They also had "battle sleeves" of top quality Swede milsurp ammo, 200 shots for $79.
I asked the guy what the deal was, he said, "Buy these rifles up, we got 300 more in the back room".
I grabbed up a 2 bore, and a 3 bore, and two battle sleeves.
Those were the days.

bowles, it looks like you got in on the same Swedish Armory release that I did. You didn't buy your Swede in Atlanta did you?
Aim small don't miss.

Offline bsbowles

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2006, 12:01:57 AM »
No, I didn't buy it in Atlanta but I was close. I bought it about 4.5 hours up the the street just above the Charlotte, NC area. A discount store named Rose's used to sell  good quality military rifles. They have long since closed down when Wal-Mart put them out of business. I was so poor then I had to put the rifle on lay-away. Now that I have the money to buy these rifles they are harder to find and much more expensive. There must have been a mass market of these rifles all throughout the southeast in that time period. I wish I had bought about 200 of these rifles back then. I could put my teenage daughter through two or three years of college.

Offline rockbilly

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2006, 03:26:23 PM »
I use to buy a case of Sweds (10 guns) for $125.00.  Over the years I have bought and sold hundreds of them.  I still own 3 stock 96s and two stock m38s.  All of them are tack drivers at 100yards.  I have a M38 that is sportirized, scoped and in a super nice piece of wood.  At a hundred yards she will put 3 in the same hole.  I am currently working on three others that will be nice sporters when finished, two have been rebarreled, I turned the other one to take the steps out of the barrel (might have errored here), but it was rough on the outside, pitts and rust the bore was good so turning it was an attempt to salvage it.  If it doesn't work it will get a new Douglas barrel too.

Over the years I have worked wityh most of the milsups, many of them are great guns, and will make a good shooter, but for some reason I have always found the Sweds to be better performers that the rest, and the 6.5x55 is a good choice of elk, deer , antelope, or for varmit shooting.

Offline 1 Single Shot

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Re: M96 Mauser Questions
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2007, 06:05:04 AM »
I got my Swede back in the 90's she's a 1899  M96 with a 2 bore and she shoots as good now as any new gun, maybe better,  for 108 years old, she has alot of life left, I'm sure.  8)   James