30-30 on elk? yea or nay?

[NONYA]

Experienced guides wont allow a 30-30 on an elk hunt because they KNOW elk,and they KNOW there are MANY more appropriate calibers for an elk hunt,they want succesful hunters,not missed shot opportunitys outside of the guns range and wounded elk to chase all day.As I said before IF YOU HAVE A CHOICE IT ISNT AN ELK CARTRIDGE,when I shot my elk with a 30-06 I shot whatever ammo I recieved from my family to hunt with I was 18 when i bought my first rifle and up until then I shot whatever I could get my hands on and a 30-06 with 180 gr bullets is twice the elk rifle a POS 30-30 will ever be with any bullet out of any gun.The point of the thread is would you take a 30-30 POS on an elk hunt when you have a choice of calibers,not a can you kill a Trex with a 30-30 thread.Look at the muzzle velocity comparisons at 300 yards and tell me they even compare....its right there in front of you....a 180 out of the -06 has twice the velocity of a 150 out of a POS 30-30 at 300 yards,your little chart has more than proven the point i was making,Thank You!after 100 yards that POS 30-30 falls like a rock and you dont always get a 100 yard standing shot on elk when your not hunting them in a pen.I love lever guns,you think Im against using the round on elk because I dont like a particular rifle design?Whatever...Thanx for the data chart Insane because you have shown him EXACTLY why he should consider another caliber.

[dukkillr]

These arguments are always the same.   Can you kill deer with a .223?  Can you kill elk with a .243 or 30-30?  Moose with a .308?  Brown Bear with a 45-70?

YES.  You can kill all those animals with a .22lr.  You can probably kill them with a .177 pellet rifle if you make a perfect jugular shot, or as it is said in this conversation "If you put the bullet in the right spot..." 

Then some person who's a huge fan of the round will get indignant and start calling names... 

But there's always the other side of the argument.  Why?  Why push a minimum?  Like nonya said, there are rounds designed for the purpose of elk hunting, and they are better suited to the task.  If you fall out of an airplane, land in colorado, and find a 30-30 on the ground, sure it'll work.  If you're going to spend your time and money on an elk hunt you'd be well served to get an elk rifle, say 300 win mag, 30-06, or .270.  If you're a balistics junky maybe you'd rather a .338 or 300 weatherby or RUM.

In summary, can a 30-30 kill elk?  Sure.  Are there lots of better choices?  Yes.

[Cement Man]

Most folks have made it abundantly clear that the 30-30 is not their first choice for elk and has limitations - and have explained their opinions articulately. That doesn't make it inaccurate, or a POS, or a totally wrong choice for elk hunting. A good 30-30 rifle, properly loaded and used, eclipses some other weapons (bows and muzzleloaders included) legitimately used for taking elk.  Likewise, hunting techniques have to match the capability of the weapon.

The .22LR, pellet gun, falling out of airplane analogies aren't logical or in the scope of the discussion.

No matter what you shoot - you always have to put it in the "right spot".

Maybe better to let it go with the last statement - "In summary can a 30-30 kill elk?  Sure.  Are there better choices?  Yes." 

That's exactly what most people have been saying all along.

[insanelupus]

NONYA, perhaps you should check that "little chart" again.  That's muzzle energy not velocity.  Yup, the .30-06 has quite a bit more muzzle energy at the muzzle.  And the .30-30 while limited to about 100 yards, still at that distance, has more energy in foot pounds than your .30-06 at 300 yards (with these particular Remington loadings).  You have said that your .30-06 @ 300 yards can cleanly kill an elk.  My entire point was, yes, so can the .30-30 at 100 yards. 

The muzzle velocities for the two loads are separated by 500 fps for the .30-06 (2700 fps) and 170 grain .30-30 (2200 fps).  With the 150 grain .30-30 (2390 fps), the velocity is even closer together, separated by only 310 feet per second.  http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R30065*R30301*R30302

As to guides that wouldn't allow someone to carry the weapon on a hunt, they wouldn't get my business.  It's all in the way and style of the hunt you want and terrain you hunt in.  When my children are old enough to go with me to hunt elk and deer, they will be carying my '94 Winchester chambered for .30-30.  It' trim, it's accurate, they will have plenty of range time, AND I'll teach them to get close and wait for the right shot.  Just as my father taught me.  Again, within the limitations of the cartridge, it will do fine.  Every elk I've ever encountered I could have shot during elk season in NW Montana was well inside that 100 yard mark.  We have a lot of thick heavy timber.  Again, all to which the limitations of the .30-30 would be satisfactory.

ncpreacherboy asked if a .30-30 could kill elk humanely.  And I think the question has indeed been answered very well.  Yes it can, within the boundaries of the cartridge and the platform.  He then asked if perhaps he should purchase another barrel for his Handi rifle.  The answer to that has been, probably, if you'd like to be able to take shots in excess of 100 yards or so. 

 

[NONYA]

Its pretty rare to get a nice 100 yard shot on an elk in the countryi hunt,why carry a firearm that limits your range to the point that you might not be able to take a shot if you get the chance?makes no sense,expand your horizons,do some research that doesnt involve a computer and a chart,if you hunted these animals they way I do you would never consider taking a POS 30-30 on an elk hunt,but hey thats your choice and I hope it works out for ya.Your attitude towards elk guides that know thier buisness and recommend PROPER calibers for an elk hunt shows just how ignorant you are to elk hunting,listen to the guys that hunt them for a living they MIGHT know what they are talking about.I hunt big open country with scattered timber and lots of open parks,i wouldnt have killed 1/10 of the elk i have killed in my lifetime if i had a POS 30-30 in my hands,why recomend to an uneducated elk hunter that it MIGHT be ok If you get close shots?Just be honest and let them know that they would be better off with somthing in the 30-06,7mag,300 wmect,ect.

[insanelupus]

NONYA,

We have discussed the topic at hand to the point of diminishing returns.  The terrain, as I pointed out in earlier posts, has a bearing on this topic and the fact we hunt in two very different types of regions has to be noted.  We obviously hunt in two different styles for two very different reasons.  I would have been very glad to sit and have an adult discussion about elk tactics and elk hunting with you.  And while I would doubt that you would have changed your mind in any way, it might have been an interesting discussion and there was a distinct possibility I could have learned several hints and tips from you.   However, no matter what would have been mentioned in that conversation with someone so ignorant as myself, due to your obviously superior knowledge of elk and elk hunting it would obviously have served only as a tremendous waste of your time.  Therefore, I am going to concede that we are going to substantially disagree on this topic and I shall leave it at that.   



ncpreacherboy1, good luck on your elk hunting trip, I hope that it is a safe and successful hunt for you.

[Coyote Hunter]

The .30-30 is perfectly adequate for elk within its limitations, just as the .30-06 is.  The difference is the maximum range at which I would attempt a shot.  My hunting buddy and I have hunted elk with .30-30 and .44 Mag carbines, so I guess it is safe to say "Yes, we would hunt elk with them".  People manage to take elk effectively with handguns in .30-30 and .44 Mag. 

Would a .30-30 be my first choice on a once-in-a-lifetime elk hunt?  Heck no - a .270 or up would get the nod, and I would use premium bullets like Trophy bonded, TSX, A-Frame or North Fork.  My first choice, back in '82, was a 7mm Rem Mag and it has not disappointed.

[NONYA]

Your negative attitude and demeaning comment when you made the observation that i was coming off as anethical expert by suggesting the use of a proper caliber for the game in question doesnt aproach mature conversation,you set the tone.I hope you can undersatnd the advice I was trying to give,i can understand you experience with close range conditions but in the elk hunting world those constant conditions are uncommon and I have never encountered them,if I knew I would never shoot over 100 yards I would still select another caliber due to bullet selection and down range energy.I can always agree to disagree but i will not carry on a mature conversation when somone insults me or my hunting experience,I dont know jack about hunting caribou or muskox but I have hunted elk for20+ years and taken one ALMOST every year.I hope we do get a chance to talk another day and i hope we can get off on a better foot next time,no bad feelings,nONYA

[Don Fischer]

I am amazed to discover that there are people that have never hunted elk in the Coast Range of Oregon or Washingtons Olympic Peninsula. I would also advise the bow hunters to start practicing at 300yds!

will a 30-30 kill and ekl? Sure. Are there OTHER choices? Of course there are. Are there better choices? Depends on who your talking to.

[NONYA]

He said he was going to Az. not some rainforest/heavy timber state,odds are very good he will have an opportunity for a shot that may be a bit longer than 100 yards.NOBODY said you COULDNT kill an elk with a 30-30,it was suggested that there are MANY more oppropriate calibers to take on a once in a lifetime elk hunt in a state with lots of open country,I hope you get to go on this hunt and i hope you are properly prepared for the shot of a lifetime.