30-30 on elk? yea or nay?

[ncpreacherboy1]

can an elk be humanely harvested with a good ol tirty tirty? i just founds out that i have the chance of a lifetime to possibly go elk hunting in arizona next year. a 30-30 is my largest caliber rifle(others include .17, 22 mag and 220 swift, all too small for deer, much less elk) can i get by with my 30-30 at close ranges or do i need to invest in another barrel for the handi(30-06 or 280)?

[Golsovia]

If I knew what the conditions were and was very familiar with the country, I'd use the 30-30 on elk (or even larger, moose) if the terrain was such that it could be done well. It sounds like your once-in-a-lifetime opportunity may not fit that scenario though. With a Handi-Rifle option available, I'd go that route if it were me in your shoes. I'd buy a couple or few boxes of Hornady bullets and a box of Noslers in the same weight. I'd load them up - a few at a time if necessary- and go shoot them until I was very familiar and comfortable with the rifle at various distances, saving the Noslers for my hunting ammo. Then, I'd go and have a good time hunting, knowing that nothing other than luck could stop the meat making.

[quickdtoo]

Here's a similar topic from the Lever Action forum.

Tim

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,99743.0.html

[ncpreacherboy1]

i guess that this answeres my question
https://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=318

not an elk but same story
http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=236

[butterman]

I have an uncle that came to vist  He opened his wallet there was a roladex of pictures , all 5-6 point bull Elk  , He said all where shot with a 30-30 win.  useing 170gr. bullets .   I asked him how he got away with that and he smiled and said guided hunt on horses let them get close enough , well within 50 yards. He said that was all he had ever used . Sounds like a very small window to me , A hunt of a life time needs a gun that will shoot atleast start out at the muzzle with say a ton of power.  just my thoughts .

[Don Fischer]

A half ton of well placed power trumps a ton of miss placed power any day.

[Mac11700]

A half ton of well placed power trumps a ton of miss placed power any day.

True...very true...but honestly Don...I don't think missing is the issue...is it?  Would the 30-30 single shot be your first choice at a elk gun under all conditions...or would it be in a very limited role?...I think if under the right conditions and yardage it would suffice...but I certainly wouldn't want to take a 250 yard shot on a once in a lifetime bull with it if presented with the shot..I'm quite sure it's been done before but.if it were me...I would try for atleast a 270-280-30-06 chambered Handi barrel...The 280's are extramly accurate...and has some pretty good ammo & bullet selection to choose from...and did real good on velocity...[/img]

Mac

[jnclement]

Elk were hunted almost to extinction with 30-30 calibers and their predecesors. Of course, then gun writers declared them armor plated, and that magnums cured bad shot placement.

[Slamfire]

When I lived in California, the state record for Tule elk was held by a nine year old girl. She took an 830 pound bull on Grizzly Island. She did shoot it twice though, it was dead on it's feet, but blocking the escape of another bull. 

[Coyote Hunter]

The short answer is "Yes, elk can behumanely harvested with a .30-30."  In fact I often recommend it for young hunters instead of a .243 WIn as I prefer the larger hole and heavier bullet.

That said, it is definitely not my first choice recommendation for hunters on a rare or possibly once-in-a-lifetime elk hunt.  For such circumstances I generally recommend a .270 Win or a 7mm-08 as the minimum.

The problem with a .30-30 is the range - you may be lucky to see elk let alone get close to them.  A .30-06 or .280 barrel for your Handi is a much better choice.

[rzwieg]

As I recall, the world record elk (at one time) was taken with a 30/40 Krag. I'd use something with more oomf, but lots of BIG game has been laid low by hunters using 30/30 class rounds.(I've never hunted for elk, but give me a couple years...)

[nabob]

Many of the early hunting records were established when game was a lot more plentiful and hence, ranges shorter. That needs to be considered along with the caliber. In order to use these traditional brands, you might have to get within traditional distance, which might be a bit of a trick these days with scarcer game. 

Also, what those earlier records don't say is how many times animals were lost using those calibers.

I guess if it were me, not living where I could walk out my door and have my pick of elk, I'd bring something I was pretty sure was big enough and had enough distance and that I could shoot well. I don't think that would be a 30/30.

[victorcharlie]

So.......It depends on where your hunting, and more specifically the range that you think you'll shoot.......

The 30.30 would be fine in the woods, but probably not a good choice in open country......

In some places, a wounded animal counts as a kill and you might only get one chance.  If I were spending a fair amount of money on the hunt I'd think about taking a rifle that extended the range a bit and had more power.

I'd ask the outfitter his opinion and try to follow his recommendation.

The short answer is yes, you can kill an elk with a 30.30, but there might be a better choice depending on conditions.

[coyote trapper1928]

Check the ballistics on the Hornady LeverEvolution ammunition in 30-30 Winchester. Looks to be a good improvement over the other brands.

[SuperstitionCoues]

Living in Arizona, I and others I know hunt not only bull but cow elk in Arizona.  Yes, a .30-30 would work, but it depends on where you are hunting.  Cover and concealment (for the hunter and hunted) are factors to consider.  A lot of the prime elk habitat on the Mogollon Rim and Apache Reservation was burned up a few years ago in the Rodeo-Chedeski fire.  500,000 acres destroyed, and with a perpetual drought, the vegetation really hasn't fully come back yet - I have been helping a student with his Masters in Ecological Restoration/Remote Sensing in this specific area, outside of Heber.  There have been other fires throughout the elk habitat of this state that have left large swaths open and without significant canopy cover, and large interspacing (meaning hundreds of meters between significant growths of oaks or shrubs) between plants.  The junipers that offered so much concealment are now about 3 - 5 feet tall, and about 2 inches around.  The grasses though, because of immediate reseeding efforts, are well-established.

Don't even get me started on what this has done to the mule deer habitat on the Rim and in the Sonoran desert... it's depressing.

My point is that realistically the area that you may be hunting in won't offer you the cover and concealment to do a spot and stalk within the range of a .30-30 (i.e. about 100 yards).  It can be kind of hard to hide behind a stand of charcoal.  You would be better off with a scoped rifle in .270, 7mm WSM or Rem. Mag (preferably 160 gr. or larger loads), or a .30-06 with 165 gr. or 180 gr. loads.  Bullet choice (premium over standard) won't necessarily matter, but shot placement will.  So, practice at 200 yards, and be ready for a 300 yard shot if necessary. 

I hope this helps.

[jro45]

I would say yes if the shot was close enought. The smallest rifle I'd use would be my 270 Win. Elk are big animals and a shot in the right place is needed.

[beemanbeme]

My little story bears repeating, when I was fishing bass tournies, conventional wisdom was to rig with the heaviest gear you needed to land the biggest fish you hoped to hook in the worst conditions you might encounter.  That makes good sense in hunting also.

If this is gonna be a one and only elk hunt why not buy a proper rig --a 30-06 would be worlds better than a thutt-thutty-- and when the hunt is over, sell it for 75 or 80 cents on the dollar.

[nomosendero]

Elk were hunted almost to extinction with 30-30 calibers and their predecesors. Of course, then gun writers declared them armor plated, and that magnums cured bad shot placement.

Yes, before regulated sport hunting, the same way that Deer numbers were brought down very low in AR. during the same time frame with
.22's. Alot of animals can be killed when you have all year & this does not mean jack for someone who has a chance at an Elk hunt & may
want the best tools for the job. It's not about armour plating but it could come down to being able to shoot a little further under the correct circumstances.

[nomosendero]

My little story bears repeating, when I was fishing bass tournies, conventional wisdom was to rig with the heaviest gear you needed to land the biggest fish you hoped to hook in the worst conditions you might encounter.  That makes good sense in hunting also.

If this is gonna be a one and only elk hunt why not buy a proper rig --a 30-06 would be worlds better than a thutt-thutty-- and when the hunt is over, sell it for 75 or 80 cents on the dollar.

That is a very good way of looking at it, especially with a Handi. The barrel & a modest scope will be small change compared to the overall cost of
the hunt, gas, etc. And yes, if needed you could sell the barrel after the hunt. I would look hard at the 30-06 or 280.

[Redhawk1]

Elk were hunted almost to extinction with 30-30 calibers and their predecesors. Of course, then gun writers declared them armor plated, and that magnums cured bad shot placement.

Why do people have to get off topic every time a subject of the 30-30 and Elk come up. We all know a 30-30 will kill an Elk within it's affective range. But to make a statement that a magnum is used because of bad shot placement is just plain dumb in my opinion.  I get real tired of hearing the same BS.

No matter what you shoot shot placement is critical.

[Don Fischer]

A half ton of well placed power trumps a ton of miss placed power any day.

True...very true...but honestly Don...I don't think missing is the issue...is it?  Would the 30-30 single shot be your first choice at a elk gun under all conditions...or would it be in a very limited role?...I think if under the right conditions and yardage it would suffice...but I certainly wouldn't want to take a 250 yard shot on a once in a lifetime bull with it if presented with the shot..I'm quite sure it's been done before but.if it were me...I would try for atleast a 270-280-30-06 chambered Handi barrel...The 280's are extramly accurate...and has some pretty good ammo & bullet selection to choose from...and did real good on velocity...[/img]

Mac

Your right Mac. Then I wouldn't choose the 30-30 for hunting anything. Killing is about placing well constructed bullet's for the animal being hunted in the right place. The 30-30 is not my idea of an accutate cartridge. You could say, rightfully so, that it is accuruate enough for the ranges it's used but, 2"+ group's do not excite me at 100yds for hunting at any range. As you know, it could be said that a 222 with the right bullet is deadly on an elk if properly placed, that's true. But a 30-06 with the proper bullet is also very deadly on an elk if properly placed. The difference being there's a lot more proper place's to place the 30-06 bullet than there is the 222 bullet.

If a 30-30 were all I had and couldn't afford another rifle, I'd hunt elk with it.

What do you wanna bet someone has a 30-30 that shoot's in the .3's? Probally hear about that one!

[kyote]

YEA,you sure can Smite an elk with your 30-30.

" i just founds out that i have the chance of a lifetime to possibly go elk hunting in arizona next year."

I do not know where you are coming from to head to Arizona.Out West..your once in a life time shot might not happen out west with your 30-30.seems like you have time to find,work up a load,and sighther in on a better choice of a rifle for your elk hunt.That is what I think,no that is what I would do ,Buy myself something that might handle a little better a longer shot at a trophy elk out west.
make a poll here and see what the troops want you to take.and what would be the best for an out WEST shot at a once in a life time opputuniy at a Bull Elk..and don't worry about the envyest ones and their nay saying about the magnums..they work gooder thats why they are made and sell like hot cakes to the ones that enjoy the edge.

[Slamfire]

Not all elk huntin' takes place in wide open basins, after they've been chivvied up a bit, they'll retire to the black timber and you'll have to go in after 'em. Now you ani't gonna see the herd bull in them blowdowns, but cows and ragheads taste pretty good too. 

[Mac11700]

A half ton of well placed power trumps a ton of miss placed power any day.

True...very true...but honestly Don...I don't think missing is the issue...is it?  Would the 30-30 single shot be your first choice at a elk gun under all conditions...or would it be in a very limited role?...I think if under the right conditions and yardage it would suffice...but I certainly wouldn't want to take a 250 yard shot on a once in a lifetime bull with it if presented with the shot..I'm quite sure it's been done before but.if it were me...I would try for atleast a 270-280-30-06 chambered Handi barrel...The 280's are extramly accurate...and has some pretty good ammo & bullet selection to choose from...and did real good on velocity...[/img]

Mac

Your right Mac. Then I wouldn't choose the 30-30 for hunting anything. Killing is about placing well constructed bullet's for the animal being hunted in the right place. The 30-30 is not my idea of an accutate cartridge. You could say, rightfully so, that it is accuruate enough for the ranges it's used but, 2"+ group's do not excite me at 100yds for hunting at any range. As you know, it could be said that a 222 with the right bullet is deadly on an elk if properly placed, that's true. But a 30-06 with the proper bullet is also very deadly on an elk if properly placed. The difference being there's a lot more proper place's to place the 30-06 bullet than there is the 222 bullet.

If a 30-30 were all I had and couldn't afford another rifle, I'd hunt elk with it.

What do you wanna bet someone has a 30-30 that shoot's in the .3's? Probally hear about that one!

In a 30-30 Handi rifle...shooting in the .3's is quite routine...so I would say your correct

Mac

[Mikey]

Redhawk1 - I agree with you completely on this one.  One reason I left one hunting group years ago was because the owner of the property we hunted felt he needed a 7mm mag to cure his inability to properly place a shot and would still have them run off wounded. 

As to the 30-30 on Elk:  the 30-30 is a very understated round but a buddy of mine took an 800 lb cow Elk one day when he stepped out his back door and saw her standing there at 80 yds.  One 30-30 broadside through and through the chest filled his freezer that year.  Mikey.

[Brithunter]

Ahhhh Don Fischer,

       You miss-judge the 30-30 cartridge so ........................... the 30-30 is an accurate cartridge it's the rifles it's chambered in normally which limit it's accuracy. Also some of the modern mass produced 30-30 ammo is woefully inaccurate but until you put it through an accurate rifle how do you tell?

      Whilst I have not shot groups in the .3's. Ones of 1/2-3/4" group size (3 shots) are common place using handloads. I use 125-130 Spitzer bullets and H-335 powder giving a velocity of around 2800 fps. Not your usual lever action loading for sure but then I use a quality bolt action built for the 30-30 cartridge. Here is one witnessed group shot at Bisley's Short Siberia range at 100 yards:-



And the rifle which shot it and this Roe Doe:-



    However using Winchester factory 150 Grn HP loads the best it will do is about 2 1/2" groups  . I have found it to be accurate but again with handloads using the Sierra 150 Grn Flat Nosed bullets but unfortunately as the person who ordered the rifle specified Win 170 Grn ammo the magazine is built around that cartridge overall length and I cannot use spitzer bullets heavier than 130 grn because they have to be seated too deep into the case.

      Even with it's prooven accuracy I would not be using this rifle for Elk as I have far better choices 

[beemanbeme]

An elk is a helluva lot bigger than a roe deer. 

You can drive a railroad spike with a tack hammer but considering all of the better tools to do the job, why not choice one. 

[Redhawk1]

An elk is a helluva lot bigger than a roe deer. 

You can drive a railroad spike with a tack hammer but considering all of the better tools to do the job, why not choice one. 

Can't argue with that. 

[Coyote Hunter]

An elk is a helluva lot bigger than a roe deer. 

You can drive a railroad spike with a tack hammer but considering all of the better tools to do the job, why not choice one. 

I doubt you can drive a RR spike with a tack hammer, but it would be an interesting experiment.

The .30-30 is fine for elk provided you stay within it's range - same as a .30 Win Mag, just that the range is shorter.

[fknipfer]

If this was my once in a lifetime hunt drawing I know what I would do.  I would go beg, borrow or buy myself a .270 or 30-06.  Remember you may never get another chance and if the elk is 200yds+ you are not going to get it with a 30-30.  The old saying is you need 1500 lbs ft of energy for the elk when you hit it, not muzzle energy but 200yds energy.  That way you make a clean kill and have humanely treated the animal.

TMHO
fknipfer