Author Topic: How not to build a Gatling Gun (Read 3692 times)

SLEEPY BEEPER · « **on:** November 12, 2006, 05:41:08 PM »

A month ago I found I had some time on my hands but no money (kids off to collage). A friend pointer out some surplus 12 gauge shotgun barrels for sale at $19 each. And I found all brass 12 gauge shotgun cases (cowboy action shooters use them). Now what would be better then a Gatling Gun shooting brass 12 gauge cases full (half full? safty first) of black powder? I'm not much of a machinest. And I cannot understand plans. So I just started building. I'm making things to fit. And everything is being built from surplus, salvage or given to me by friends. I need to keep it as cheap as possible. So if it doesn't work. I'm not out much. There is no powder can in the pictures. But the barrels are 12 gauge. I call it " How not to build a Gatling Gun".

https://www.gboreloaded.com/mhp/images/sleepybeeper/mvc620f.jpg
https://www.gboreloaded.com/mhp/images/sleepybeeper/mvc621f.jpg

C2ND · « **Reply #1 on:** November 12, 2006, 06:06:42 PM »

If you build a Gatling Gun that uses 12 gauge shells, black powder or smokeless it must be registered as a destructive device. If you are not a licensed DD manufacturer you have to file a form 1 with BATFE and recieve the approved form back before construction.

Double D · « **Reply #2 on:** November 12, 2006, 06:19:12 PM »

C2ND what is the basis for you post? If you build a Gatling gun firing 45/70 would you say the information in your post applies?

Rickk · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2006, 12:01:10 AM »

how long are the barrels, and how long will the overall length be? You don't want to make a sawed off shotgun.

barrels 18 inches min.

o.a.l 26 nches min

There are some other legal issues that I don't quite understand wth revolving shotguns... look into the "Striker" . Check the BATF's web site.

SLEEPY BEEPER · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2006, 01:48:04 AM »

I'm trying to build this Gatling gun as a stand off 3/4 scale to the 1865 1 inch Gatling Battery (12 gauge is about 3/4 inch). It falls into the same class as any replica / modal cannon of 1865.

tallpaul · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2006, 02:46:22 AM »

Quote from: SLEEPY BEEPER on November 13, 2006, 01:48:04 AM

I'm trying to build this Gatling gun as a stand off 3/4 scale to the 1865 1 inch Gatling Battery (12 gauge is about 3/4 inch). It falls into the same class as any replica / modal cannon of 1865.

Oh so wrong grasshopper.... you are talking of a cartridge gun NOT a muzzle loader .... there in lies the big difference. ML's do not fall under the federal rules as do the cartridge guns. Call the BATF and ask them now ya could rifle them barrells...

SLEEPY BEEPER · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2006, 07:16:07 AM »

The barrels are 20 inchs tip to tip. They stick out of the rear reciever 19 1/4 inchs. I'm guessing by the time the gun gets on it's wood carriage. It will be 6 feet long.

gary michie · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2006, 08:04:10 AM »

HI:

I have been told many times that any gun made before 1887 can be made today without a permit or license and this means an exact "copy" scaled up or down. A shotgun gatling is not an exact copy of anything. I suggest that you research the laws.
One thing every one in the Black Powder world should keep in mind these days is the anti gun movement, and if we go over the line and break the rules they'll remove our rights...........We Must Be Correct And Law Abiding In Our Actions .

The Shootist · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2006, 04:01:41 PM »

I need a little better explanation.......

A Gatling type is legal, and is classed as a semi-auto. Someone explain in small words just how this shotgun version is a destructive device? How is it different from a semi-auto conventional shotgun?

gary michie · « **Reply #9 on:** November 14, 2006, 07:55:46 AM »

HI::

I just learned something new.
I have been under the impression that the gatling gun falls under the same category of guns like the bolt action and lever action rifle. Due to the fact that you must apply human force to load, unload and fire a gatling. The semi-automatic piece is loaded by the expansion of the gases by the prior load being fired; therefore, I don't understand how the gatling could be considered semi-automatic, especially the hand operated gatlings.

The Shootist · « **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2006, 08:20:28 AM »

Actually Gary You are correct......I misspoke myself.

As long as repeated fire requires human interaction the gun is legal....reguardless of rate of fire. An electric version would be a strict NO NO.

Double D · « **Reply #11 on:** November 14, 2006, 08:43:43 AM »

Quote from: gary michie on November 13, 2006, 08:04:10 AM

HI:
I have been told many times that any gun made before 1887 can be made today without a permit or license and this means an exact "copy" scaled up or down. A shotgun gatling is not an exact copy of anything. I suggest that you research the laws.
One thing every one in the Black Powder world should keep in mind these days is the anti gun movement, and if we go over the line and break the rules they'll remove our rights...........We Must Be Correct And Law Abiding In Our Actions .

Now that we got the hand operated Gatling Gun thing figured out, Gary, who told you this 1887 thing, I have never seen it before. That's a new one. There is the made before 1899 rule and that has some limitations for fixed ammo, but I have never heard of the one involving 1887.

dominick · « **Reply #12 on:** November 14, 2006, 02:20:45 PM »

I understood the " non-sporting use" 12 ga shotgun to be a destructive device. This included guns like the Stryker and Streetsweeper which are not semi-autos. It also included the USAS-12. I don't know how it would affect a 12 Ga gatling gun. You still might want to check on that one. I was also told by a gun dealer that the destructive device classification starts with a .68 caliber minimum. Does that mean any style cannon [ post 1899] can be built if it's under 68 caliber?

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #13 on:** November 14, 2006, 03:35:26 PM »

Here's a link (to BATF's website) that drops you right in the middle of the regulations.

It is WELL worth the reading (sit down in a comfortable chair when you browse through).

There are a number of issues here that should be researched by reading through the law AND when one is building one should draw up the planned device and submit to BATF for approval.

Double D · « **Reply #14 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:13:26 PM »

Quote from: dominick on November 14, 2006, 02:20:45 PM

I understood the " non-sporting use" 12 ga shotgun to be a destructive device. This included guns like the Stryker and Streetsweeper which are not semi-autos. It also included the USAS-12. I don't know how it would affect a 12 Ga gatling gun. You still might want to check on that one. I was also told by a gun dealer that the destructive device classification starts with a .68 caliber minimum. Does that mean any style cannon [ post 1899] can be built if it's under 68 caliber?

Never seen a .68 cal reference either. Seen reference to .50 cal. as the break between small arms and artillery in the Gun Control regulations, National Firearms Act and the International Traffic and in Arms regulations.

Muzzleloading cannon are antiques; you can build big and small as long as they replicate a pre 1899 design. Some restrictions apply if you build an antique that uses fixed ammunition.

It has always been the policy of this forum to leave the interpretation of the law up to ATF. If you need clarification contact ATF.

That being said this is what we accept on this forum.

1. Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition

and

2. Manufactured in or before 1898...or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898)

or

3. Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

The Gatling gun has been always been allowed here as falling with in the spirit of the rules. However I also know that the rotary feed 12 gauge Shotguns have come under special restrictions. So the Standing board rule will be applied here.

No more discussion of 12 Gauge Gatling gun until a letter is produced defining it as not restricted.

We also do not want this board to become known for dissemination of bad or false Information

C2ND · « **Reply #15 on:** November 14, 2006, 06:30:41 PM »

Sorry I didn't get back with a reply sooner, but I know the 12 gauge is classified as a D.D. because a friend was looking at building a run of them. He contacted the BATFE Tech. Branch, it took about 6 weeks for a reply, but they said the guns would be destructive devices.
The diameter can not be over .50 cal. Any rifle over 50 cal is a D. D., unless it falls into a very limited group the BATFE alows through, these are typically the European single shot and double barrel rifles, or copies of those.

LooseCnnn · « **Reply #16 on:** November 14, 2006, 06:58:20 PM »

Found this BATF letter on the subject of Gatling guns:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter14.txt

"Generally, a Gatling type hand crank operated firearm, having a
bore diameter of 1/2-inch or less, as produced under the patents of
1862-1893, employing a cam action to accomplish the functions of
repeat cocking, firing, and ejecting, in a caliber for which
ammunition is commercially available, and manufactured after 1898,
would be classified as a "firearm" as defined in Title 18 United
States Code (U.S.C.), Chapter 44, section 921(a)(3), Title I of the
GCA."

SLEEPY BEEPER · « **Reply #17 on:** November 15, 2006, 07:26:58 AM »

Our Double D has made a decission. I sapport him 100%. Thank you all for the information. I have posted a similer question on "Gatchat.com". The best information there indicates. It's a no-no in 12 gauge (not in 50 caliber and under). Looks like I have some trash to throw out. Thanks to all those that posted.

Rickk · « **Reply #18 on:** November 16, 2006, 02:12:48 PM »

befiore you toss it, you could consider plugging the breeches, threading them to take percussion nipples, and muzzle load them.

Considering that the barrels are 12 gauge, you may want to braze or weld the plugs permanently in place.

There were quite a few oddly designed, muzzleloading, multi-barreled cannons back in the 1800's.

Either that or call it a 10X scale revolving pepperbox pistol?

GGaskill · « **Reply #19 on:** November 16, 2006, 02:19:14 PM »

One of the early Gatlings used an oddball cartridge that is no longer available but within the realm of someone who can make a Gatling. It used sections of tubing as I recall; I have no idea how it was primed. That might allow you to save the work you have already done. Write the ATF and ask for a definitive statement. You might have to cursorily rifle the barrels.

CU_Cannon · « **Reply #20 on:** November 17, 2006, 10:39:09 AM »

What about building something like this.

dominick · « **Reply #21 on:** November 17, 2006, 11:58:37 AM »

I am working on a muzzleloading gatling gun (8 barrel). It's mechanically a very simple gun to build since it does not have the loading mechanism. You muzzle load 8 barrels and fire the gun (8 shots). Clean and reload to repeat. There is also the Hotchkiss revolving cannon (5 barrels) to consider. I think the Volley Gun, if your using 12 Ga. shells is still a destructive device.

Rickk · « **Reply #22 on:** November 18, 2006, 03:40:54 AM »

I've seen the Billinghurst-Requa Volley Gun on display at the Springfield Armory (it is only about 10 miles away from my house). I never knew it fired cartridges. The tour guides told me that the pre-loaded strips were all muzzle loaded with loose powder and ball.

I guess there is still new stuff to learn something new every day.

SLEEPY BEEPER · « **Reply #23 on:** November 18, 2006, 04:48:25 AM »

A muzzle loading Gatling gun is an interesting idea. If bigger is better. Then picture a 1.5 or 2 inch Hotchkiss revolving cannon as a muzzle loader. The 5 barrels rolling around and going off in 4 or 5 seconds, would sure be a show. You would have to have almost fool proof ignition. It would not be fun dealing with 2 or more hang fires at the same time. And a big back stop. Hard to tell where the last rounds would go, with it jumping around. I wonder how they hung on, to the crank the originals.

GGaskill · « **Reply #24 on:** November 18, 2006, 07:55:50 AM »

Rapid fire guns have always been intended for use against masses of troops, so pin point accuracy was neither required nor desired. You didn't want all your shots hitting the same guy.

claypipe · « **Reply #25 on:** November 27, 2006, 08:23:50 AM »

Quote from: Rickk on November 18, 2006, 03:40:54 AM

I've seen the Billinghurst-Requa Volley Gun on display at the Springfield Armory (it is only about 10 miles away from my house). I never knew it fired cartridges. The tour guides told me that the pre-loaded strips were all muzzle loaded with loose powder and ball.

I guess there is still new stuff to learn something new every day.

You can see the Billinghurst-Requa Volley Gun and its ammo online at http://www.floridareenactorsonline.com/machinegun.htm.

Now I am planning, if all goes well, to build a ribauldequin. I've seen these both as breechloaders with thunder mugs, as well as muzzleloaders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribauldequin

Cannoneer · « **Reply #26 on:** November 28, 2006, 04:24:53 PM »

These aren't exactly related to a gatling gun, I just thought they were interesting. They're both from The Museum of Artillery, Engineers and Signal Troops in St. Petersburg, Russia.

44 bronze barrels, 76mm bore, 23cm. long, mortar battery system on a revolving horizontal wheel built by A. K. Nartov in St. Petersburg in 1754. The wheel was rotated to aim and the mortars fired in succession.

[img width= height= alt=image hosting by myhostedpics.com/]https://www.gboreloaded.com/mhp/images/BoomJ100/russianmortarbatterysystem1754.jpg[/img]

105 iron barreled rapidfire battery gun, 18mm bores, length 32cm, late 17th century.

<img src="https://www.gboreloaded.com/mhp/images/BoomJ100/105barrelrapidfirebatterygunironcal.jpg" alt="image hosting by />