Author Topic: Would you buy a NEW rifle chambered in the .300 Savage or the 308 Marlin Express (Read 3972 times)

coyote trapper1928 · « **on:** November 16, 2006, 05:36:52 AM »

Ok, Here is the question:

You have the opportunity to buy a BRAND NEW RIFLE

One rifle is chambered in the .300 Savage. The 2nd rifle is chambered in the the new .308 Marlin Express . You can only buy one or the other, not both. Both rifles come with Black Walnut stocks. The rifle would be used to hunt deer and black bear, with the possibility of having the chance at hunting a preserve where you can hunt anything from Wild Boar to Bison.

Which one would you chose?

beemanbeme · « **Reply #1 on:** November 16, 2006, 08:12:53 AM »

I don't know anything about the .308marlin express but I bought the Rem Classic in .300Sav and it has become one of my favorites.

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** November 16, 2006, 11:04:33 AM »

The short answer to the question asked in the subject line is NO.

Honestly I'd be unlikely to buy either. I'd be more tempted by a Marlin in .307 Winchester than either of the listed rounds but even more so in one chambered to .356 Winchester. I suppose I'll end up having one of my two Marlin's in .35 Rem rechambered to this round. Might even have a .30-30 turned into a .307 Win. who knows altho I really don't see the need.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #3 on:** November 16, 2006, 11:20:05 AM »

Of the two, the 300 Savage hands down. I have no idea what this 308 Marlin express is but you have to wonder how long it will last. Of course if you reload and buy up a lifetime supply of cases, well maybe. What is the thing anyway?

beemanbeme · « **Reply #4 on:** November 16, 2006, 11:35:17 AM »

Yeah, how 'bout some detes on the 308ME.. I live up a holler in WV and I don't get out much....

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** November 16, 2006, 11:43:29 AM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on November 16, 2006, 11:35:17 AM

Yeah, how 'bout some detes on the 308ME.. I live up a holler in WV and I don't get out much....

160 grain at 2660 fps I believe is the factory spec on it.

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #6 on:** November 16, 2006, 11:51:33 AM »

another vote for the 300 savage.
I own 2 rifles in 300 Savage but 1941 is the newest!

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #7 on:** November 16, 2006, 12:38:23 PM »

It wouldn't even be a contest - the .308 Marlin Express would be my choice. A Marlin in .307 has been on my wish list for a number of years, but sadly they didn't make any. The .308 ME provides .307 performance and then some. The Marlin XLR model for me, thank you very much!

Have rejected more rifles in .300 Savage than I can remember, all 99's, in search for one in .308.

Whether the cartridge becomes a long term success or not is NOT part of my decision making criteria. Heck, if it fails my rifle might just become more valuable, kind of like the Marlin and Winchesters in .356 Win and .375 Win and the Winchesters in .307. I'll buy a few hundred cases and handload - just like I do for all my rifles.

Chuck White · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2006, 02:46:31 AM »

Anyone have case/cartridge measurements on the 308 Marlin Express? What niche does it fill?

Is it more than the 30-30 Win and less than the 308 Win?

beemanbeme · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2006, 05:42:31 AM »

Is it a rimmed cartridge?? Is the 336 gonna be the rifle for it?? With a tubular magizine? How is it different from the .307? Does anyone have a drawing?

Sourdough · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2006, 05:53:54 AM »

Will it go the same route as the 350 Rem Mag? Came out with much halabaloo, started fading right away. Quit making the guns, then stopped making the ammo. Brought it back with the same halabaloo, faded away, stopped making the gun. How long this time will the ammo last?

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #11 on:** November 17, 2006, 05:42:52 PM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on November 17, 2006, 05:42:31 AM

Is it a rimmed cartridge?? Is the 336 gonna be the rifle for it?? With a tubular magizine? How is it different from the .307? Does anyone have a drawing?

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=481

Here's what a Marlin employee had to say about it on another forum:

"Fellow Marlin Shooters,

Now I can talk freely about the new 308 Marlin Express.

The news release is now out on the joint venture of Marlin and Hornady's newest cartridge, the 308 MARLIN EXPRESS.

Ater reading a number of recent posts that hit the 'net today, I'll try to give you all some more facts.

The 308 Marlin Express is NOT interchangeable with the current (Nato) .308........The marlin 308 Express is an extirely NEW case and chamber design......However, The New 308 Marlin Express will slightly surpass the older, (never released in a Marlin), 307 performance.

The Billistics are similar to the current Nato 308, a 160 Gr. projectile @ approx 2650-2700 FPS...... The operating pressure will be in the range of 46,000-47,000 PSI, thanks to the technology and hard work from the guys at Hornady.....Someone stated they expect the performance to fall short......I DON'T THINK THAT WILL BE THE CASE!...The final loading is still being fine tuned by the technicians at Hornady, velocity and accuracy is VERY incouraging.

Answers to few questions I read in prior posts:

Will other (hand loaded) ammo be usable?.........Yes, the bore size is the same as the Marlin 30-30........1:10 ballard cut rifling, so other RN or FN bullets are handloadable. The larger case capacity of the 308 will benefit the handloader also.

Will other ammo manufacturers pick the 308 Marlin Express in their product line?
I expect that will happen, in time,......thats always been the case.

Can older Marlin 30-30's be safely rechambered to this new round?.....NO!..... the receiver will be manufactured to tighter tolerances, using a Vee thread as the union between the barrel and the receiver, similar to the 450 Marlin.

Can standard pointed bullets be used in the 308 Marlin rifle? NO....There is NO safe way to use standard, metal pointed projectiles in a tubular magazine.

Will a 35 or some other bore size follow?..............NO........this is a NEW Marlin caliber in itself.

The Marlin Rifles:

The Marlin 308 Express will come in two flavors.

The 308MXLR will be an XLR Stainless Steel style rifle with a 24" barrel, pistol grip Grey/Black laminated stocks, with forarm cap and sling studs,and standard Marlin rubber non-vented rifle pad.

The 308MX will be a blued rifle with a 22" barrel, Walnut pistol grip stocks, with the Marlin rubber non-vented rifle pad and sling studs.

The Magazine Tubes on both rifles will be the 2/3's style, holding, 5 rounds. The mag tubes are standard style NOT sprial or helical.

Barrel Contour : Currently, the barrel contour will be that of the 30-30 and 30-30 XLR.....However testing is scheduled for other, heavier barrel contours, to optimize down range accuracy. Barrel contour will be decided prior to the first production run.

Production schedule: Marlin is scheduling the first production for these new rifles for Jan/Feb/ March........I don't remember the specific production release dates, but will note them tomorrow and post them this weekend.

This new caliber is going to be a long range heavy hitter for a 30 caliber lever gun.......
I'm excited about it ........If any of you have other questions, forward them to me, and I'll try to answer them quickly for you.

Good Shooting, good Hunting..... "

beemanbeme · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2006, 04:08:29 AM »

Thanks, CH.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2006, 03:11:07 AM »

Quote from: coyote trapper1928 on November 16, 2006, 05:36:52 AM

Ok, Here is the question:

You have the opportunity to buy a BRAND NEW RIFLE One rifle is chambered in the .300 Savage. The 2nd rifle is chambered in the the new .308 Marlin Express . You can only buy one or the other, not both. Both rifles come with Black Walnut stocks. The rifle would be used to hunt deer and black bear, with the possibility of having the chance at hunting a preserve where you can hunt anything from Wild Boar to Bison.

Which one would you chose?

Hmmmm...let me see....I have a chance( and the money) to buy either rifle both being brand new...OK...I'll take the brand new Savage 99 take down in 300 Savage...and then I'll use my new 45-70 XLR on the Bison hunt...

Thankyou very much

Mac

drducati · « **Reply #14 on:** December 15, 2006, 01:03:42 PM »

Marlin has just reinvented the 300 Savage with handloaded performance. I never had any trouble with the 300 Savage. It was the taking off point for the 308 and would have been the Gov't round if the neck was more amenable to machinegun use.

jvs · « **Reply #15 on:** December 15, 2006, 10:48:40 PM »

As far as I'm concerned the .308 Marlin Express is D.O.A. Nothing in my experience makes me want to own one.

IMO, the .308 Marlin Express would NOT make a good Black Bear caliber. Unless you are shooting Cubs.

At least Marlin found something to do with their extra .30 barrels.

captdp · « **Reply #16 on:** December 16, 2006, 01:52:46 PM »

It's not exactly an answer to your question, but I am considering buying one. I will only buy one when/if Hornady makes the poly-tip tubular magazive bullets avaliable for hand loaders. At that time I was planning to buy a 35Rem, but will consider the Marlin. capt david

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #17 on:** December 16, 2006, 03:33:39 PM »

Quote from: jvs on December 15, 2006, 10:48:40 PM

As far as I'm concerned the .308 Marlin Express is D.O.A. Nothing in my experience makes me want to own one.

IMO, the .308 Marlin Express would NOT make a good Black Bear caliber. Unless you are shooting Cubs.

At least Marlin found something to do with their extra .30 barrels.

Well, that's why they make other types of guns - for people like you.

Many of us are not so cynical about the capabilities of a .30 levergun, however. The .30-30 has been getting it done for over a century now. The .308 Marlin adds a significant performance boost and is only a bit shy of .308 Win performance. According to the January 2007 Guns & Ammo, a 160g bullet leaves the 24" barrel of the XLR at 2700fps. Hornady claims a more modest 2660fps, which delivers over 2500fpe at the muzzle and over 1450fpe at 300 yards.

If you can't take even large black bears with that kind of energy, I suggest the problem is not the cartridge.

nabob · « **Reply #18 on:** December 16, 2006, 09:38:14 PM »

I wouldn't buy a .308 Marlin either. I think there are plenty of existing calibers and guns out there to do the job just fine, so this doesn't interest me.

I guess part of it is that I don't much care for lever guns. Maybe it is me and my wrists or something, but I've never been able to jack a second shot into the chamber without taking the gun down off my shoulder and then remounting. I've read on this board where others can do this no problem but I sure can't. I much prefer a pump rifle. But even if this round was available in a pump, I don't see any real usage, given the other calibers available.

What I'd like to see is a 45/70 pump.

jvs · « **Reply #19 on:** December 16, 2006, 11:52:51 PM »

Quote

The .308 Marlin adds a significant performance boost and is only a bit shy of .308 Win performance. According to the January 2007 Guns & Ammo, a 160g bullet leaves the 24" barrel of the XLR at 2700fps. Hornady claims a more modest 2660fps, which delivers over 2500fpe at the muzzle and over 1450fpe at 300 yards.

Listen here junior, I might know a little about hunting Black Bears. I live in a State with a substantial Black Bear Population, and when Bear Season rolls around the .35 Rems, .444's and the .45-70's roll out for the occasion. Almost all of them Marlin Lever Actions. Alot of other calibers in other actions come out also.

A kid with a .30-30 Winchester Model 94 was responsible for taking the 850 State Record Bear a few years ago. The kid was the 4th or 5th and final person to shoot at said Bear, and after taking at least one round from a 12 Gauge Rifled slug and a round or two from a .444, it dropped. Does that mean a .30-30 is the optimum Bear Caliber? If you think a re-incarnated Winchester .307 is going to be the answer to an experienced Black Bear Hunter, you are sadly mistaking. Anyone with any kind of field experience hunting big Bears is NOT going to rush out and buy this new caliber. It may well be a very good Deer rifle, but to sit there and try and tell people that it is a good caliber for Bear is inaccurate. IMO.

If you want the performance of a .308, buy a .308. It will be MUCH cheaper to shoot. Or better yet, buy a used .30-30 or a .35 Rem.

You try to alert people to the arrival of this new gun/caliber. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. And while you may think it is Revolutionary in performance, I think it is Revolutionary in Price and Cost to operate. I also think it has no future, with the exception of the people who collect Marlins and some others who believe what they read about it from guys like you or from the paid Scribblers, this caliber will have no market.

spinafish · « **Reply #20 on:** December 17, 2006, 11:30:28 AM »

I would go with the .300 Savage. Reloaders will not be able to match the speeds of factory .308 Marlin with available canister powders, Hornady has already said so. No deer has ever known the difference in being shot with a .300 Savage or a .308. $:-\$

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #21 on:** December 17, 2006, 01:09:17 PM »

jvs -

I'll take your resort to ad hominem attack as your tacit admission you have lost the argument on its merits.

All a person can conclude from your anecdote is that A) some of the shooters could use more shooting practice, and B) the bear died after being shot with a .30-30.

I am not suggesting people rush out and buy a .308 Marlin, although I plan to buy one at some point. Others can do as they please, makes no difference to me.

Nor am I saying it is revolutionary, although Hornady's the flex-tip bullets are certainly a big step up in terms of ballistics. As a handloader, that won't matter to me as I don't plan to use them - I'll stick with 170g Partitions. In terms of peformance the .308 Marlin is on a par with a .307 - hardly revolutionary, but it will be, for a time at least, much more available. Winchester quit making .307s in the early 1980's after only a couple years of production and Marlin never shipped any. For a while at least, those that want that kind of performance will be able to get it in a Marlin. A lot of folks have bettered their .30-30 performance over the years by hot loading or reaming them out to AI configurations or .307 chambers. The new Marlins will offer a factory alternative. Coincidently, the .308 will be offered in a package I've wanted for some time, stainless and grey laminate. Thank you, Marlin!

You wrote:

Quote

"If you want the performance of a .308, buy a .308. It will be MUCH cheaper to shoot. Or better yet, buy a used .30-30 or a .35 Rem."

Huh? Thank you, but I intend to buy a .308. Another one. But a Marlin this time.

As to operating costs, the costs for the .308 Marlin with factory ammo will be no greater than some other commonly used cartridges. For handloaders such as myself, the cost will be significantly less than most factory loads. I use both Speer 170g FN and Nosler 170g Partitions in my .30-30. With either bullet the cost to load the .308 Marlin will jump from $4.79 a box for the .30-30 to $5.28, or about $0.49 a box, due to the extra powder consumed by the .308. Cost to reload the .308 Marlin and the .308 Win will be virtually identical.

Don't need a used .30-30 as I already have one. Along with a used .375 Winchester, a used .45-70 and a used .308 Win. The .308 is a Remington, all the others are Marlins.

Everyone IS entitled to their own opinion, as are you. Amongst Marlin fans the .308 Marlin is generating a lot of interest. Whether the cartridge survives or not only time will tell. But ammo for the short lived .307 Winchester is still available, rifles chambered for it command a premium, and some gunsmiths are known for rechambering Marlin .30-30s to .307 Win.

nabob · « **Reply #22 on:** December 17, 2006, 02:34:21 PM »

I think you might have started the festivities when you questioned his ability after he offered his opinion about the cartridge. He said he thought it was underpowered and you suggested that if he thought so, he might have a lack of ability as a hunter.

How about we just stick to a discussion of the cartridge and not each other?

I haven't seen anything yet about costs of factory ammo. For those that don't reload, what is your estimation of the price of a box of shells?

Siskiyou · « **Reply #23 on:** December 17, 2006, 03:40:52 PM »

NEW Model 308MXLR
Available Spring 2007, this new model will be chambered for Hornady’s new ground-breaking 308 Marlin Express. It features a 24"e; stainless steel barrel, full pistol grip, and black-grey two-tone laminated stock characteristic of all XLR models. Also features the Marlin signature solid-top receiver with side-ejection, adjustable folding semi-buckhorn rear sight, ramp front sight. It is tapped for scope mount.

Caliber   308 Marlin Express
Capacity   5-shot tubular magazine
Action   Lever action; side ejection; stainless steel receiver; barrel, lever, trigger guard plate, magazine tube and loading gate. Hammer block safety.
Stock   Black/grey laminated hardwood pistol grip stock with fluted comb, cut checkering, deluxe recoil pad; nickel plated swivel studs.
Barrel   24" stainless steel barrel
Twist Rate    1:10" r.h
Sights   Adjustable semi-buckhorn folding rear; ramp front sight with brass bead and Wide-Scan® hood. Solid top receiver tapped for scope mount; offset hammer spur (right or left hand) for scope use
Overall Length   42.5"
Weight   7 lbs.
(Specifications subject to change without notice)
I did not think this could happen to me at this age, I have rifles that I thought were more then adequate for deer and bear. Luck must have been with me from the first bear I shot with 170/175 grain C-I-L bullet at an advertised velocity of 2570 f.p.s. I am sure if the truth was known it was more like 2400 f.p.s. I tossed and turned all night thinking the 165-grain Hornaday out of my .300 Savage was inadequate. Even if it clocked 2630 f.p.s. across my Chrony. As I rolled over late into the night I thought how lucky my Dad was to make it out of the woods alive after shooting a bear with the same .300 Savage. And he used slower 150-grain bullets that clocked just over 2500 f.p.s. 20 years later over my Chrony.

This concerns me because most of my bear encounters have been far short of one hundred yards, and when I have seen them lopping at long range it has been more then three hundred yards.

I think back at the day I left my .303 Jungle Carbine with my mother at the fire lookout tower. During the day we had watch twelve bears feeding on the berries around the tower. Mom had some concerns regarding the bears when she went down to use the outhouse. And down at the spring a sow and cubs were acting like they owned the place. While she dragged the Carbine up and down the stairs of the fire lookout, she never had to use it. A good thing to, because according to the experts she did not have an adequate bear rifle. A better son would have returned with a more powerful rifle.

I still have a current bear tag in my daypack, and there should be a few days left to fill in depending on how many have been taken. But the downside is that I only hunt bear when my buddy is around. The family is not interested in eating bear meat. From the reports around there are some to be had. Early in the season I was carrying a 7MM Mag., not because it was needed, I wanted to test my load.

It has been a long time since a new rifle has grabbed my attention, but a couple recent offerings has done that one being the Marlin .308MXL. A down right nice looking rifle that I would not be afraid to carry in black bear country. The other rifle I like is that Special run laminated M7600.

My opinion is the .308MXL is an adequate deer and black bear round. I think it is what is needed to keep the level action rifle in the hunting mix and to appeal to a wide range of hunters.

nabob · « **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2006, 05:01:11 PM »

A better son would have returned with a more powerful rifle and some double ply toilet paper, not the Sears catalog.

jvs · « **Reply #25 on:** December 18, 2006, 10:32:37 AM »

Quote from: Coyote Hunter on December 17, 2006, 01:09:17 PM

jvs - I'll take your resort to ad hominem attack as your tacit admission you have lost the argument on its merits.

How could I lose. First of all, it was not an attack, it was a defensive volley, of which I am proud to say "I never miss"...

The Marlin .308 Express is not a winner. It is not what it is propped up to be. It is neither a good Bear Caliber, nor will it be affordable to shoot, if you shoot factory ammo. I admit that when I hear the term 'Bear hunting', I think of Black Bear. Another person here may just think you mean Grizzly Bears or Brown Bears. Of which the .308 Express would be woefully inadequate. There are Bears out there that can have your heart and liver for breakfast after being shot.

Quote

All a person can conclude from your anecdote is that A) some of the shooters could use more shooting practice, and B) the bear died after being shot with a .30-30.

I think it is getting pretty apparent that some people may not know much about hunting and successfully taking big Bears. It was no anecdote. It happened. And if you feel comfortable hunting bear with a .308 Express, go right ahead.

Quote

Nor am I saying it is revolutionary, although Hornady's the flex-tip bullets are certainly a big step up in terms of ballistics. As a handloader, that won't matter to me as I don't plan to use them - I'll stick with 170g Partitions. In terms of peformance the .308 Marlin is on a par with a .307 - hardly revolutionary, but it will be, for a time at least, much more available. Winchester quit making .307s in the early 1980's after only a couple years of production and Marlin never shipped any.

All this time I thought it was Coyote Trapper1928 that started this thread. Oh well, anyway, Let me give you a hint.... The .307 went out of production after only a couple of years because IT DIDN'T SELL.

Something that will happen again with the .308 Marlin Express. As you pointed out, I may not be the brightest bulb in the Chandalier, but I'm not the dimest either. At least I won't have a .308 Marlin Express.

History repeats itself.

I may just keep a copy of this thread and run it again in about 3 years. Then we will see who was right. I don't really have a need to be right, but this time I will be. Guaranteed.

coyote trapper1928 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 18, 2006, 11:24:24 AM »

Quote

All this time I thought it was Coyote Trapper1928 that started this thread. Oh well, anyway, Let me give you a hint.... The .307 went out of production after only a couple of years because IT DIDN'T SELL.

In my own defense

, I ONLY ASKED the question. But as you will notice, This thread DOES have over 493 replies to it!!

So, there MUST be SOME people that are interested in the new rifle!!

Syncerus · « **Reply #27 on:** December 18, 2006, 11:25:23 AM »

If Marlin really wanted to do something revolutionary they might have adapted the 336 to use a spiral magazine like the old Remington 14 and 141. As far as I'm concerned the .308 Marlin Express is a terrible idea that will be DOA. The new pointed .30/30 ammo from Hornady serves a valid purpose for the millions of existing .30/30 rifles with tubular magazines. The .308 ME is an even worse idea than the .307 and .356 Winchester.

And you can see how successful they were. Why would I buy a rifle that can only shoot ammo that costs $40/box? I'd rather just buy a BLR in .308 and move on with my life.

Oh, wait a minute, I did buy a BLR in .308.

jvs · « **Reply #28 on:** December 18, 2006, 12:07:21 PM »

Quote from: coyote trapper1928 on December 18, 2006, 11:24:24 AM

Quote
All this time I thought it was Coyote Trapper1928 that started this thread. Oh well, anyway, Let me give you a hint.... The .307 went out of production after only a couple of years because IT DIDN'T SELL.

In my own defense , I ONLY ASKED the question. But as you will notice, This thread DOES have over 493 replies to it!! So, there MUST be SOME people that are interested in the new rifle!!

You asked the question in the top of this thread, and I think it may have gotten carried away. To answer your question..... Not the .308 Marlin. Then again, why not just get yourself a regular .308 or a .30-06. You might be happier in the long run.

(By the way, it has almost 500 'views'. Only because there was a slight 'p*ss*in contest' going on here. People can't resist eaves dropping on a good thread, not the rifle.)

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #29 on:** December 18, 2006, 03:04:18 PM »

Syncerus -

What's revolutionary about a spiral mag if its already been done by Remington???

No need to spend $40 a box for .308 Marlin ammo when the list price is $25.35 on the Hornady web site. By comparison, the .30-30 LeverEvolution ammo lists for $24.08 on the Hornady site but sells for $16.49 at MidwayUSA.