Author Topic: Would you buy a NEW rifle chambered in the .300 Savage or the 308 Marlin Express  (Read 3961 times)

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Offline Coyote Hunter

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jvs -

It was an ad hominem attack, even if you don't recognize it as such.  My comment "Many of us are not so cynical..." was simply an objective observation of your cynicism - defined as "negative or pessimistic" or "scornful skepticism or negativity", as in "the .308 Marlin Express is D.O.A.", "the .308 Marlin Express would NOT make a good Black Bear caliber.  Unless you are shooting Cubs" and "At least Marlin found something to do with their extra .30 barrels." 

Your opinion about the .308 Marlin is just that - an opinion.   Marlin and Hornady have seen great interest in the LeverEvolution line and, while marketeers are often wrong, they have much better insight into the market than either you or I.  And their opinion is much different than yours.

As to affordability, here are some facts:

Hornady list price:
$24.08 = .30-30
$25.35 = .308 Marln Express
$26.93 = .35 Rem

Midway USA prices:
$16.49 = .30-30
$??.?? = .308 Marlin Express
$18.49 = .35 Rem

Note that people shoot up a lot of ammo that costs more at retail than the .308 Marlin ammo will cost at list.

Actually, I never pointed out that you "may not be the brightest bulb in the Chandalier", but feel free to wear the shoe if it fits.

Your anecdote was just that - whether it described real events or not.  Given the "facts" you presented the only conclusions that can be drawn are those I described.  The facts are that many black bears have fallen to a .30-30, .300 Savage and .308 Winchester.  The .308 Marlin should be just as effective and I would be quite content to hunt blacks with it.  Would it be my first choice for brown bears?  Probably not.

Whether the .308 Marlin survives long term remains to be seen.  If it does not, one can reasonably expect that the same thing will happen to rifles chambered for it that happened to rifles chambered for the .219 Zipper, 7-30 Waters, .307 Win, the 356 Win, the 375 Win, 32 Special and others - they will become collectible and command premium prices.  I won't complain if a rifle in my safe increases in value, nor will most other owners.  On the other hand, if the .308 Marlin survives, all I will be left with is a rifle that provides the performance I was looking for when I acquired my first Marlin.  Either way I come out ahead.
Coyote Hunter
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Offline Siskiyou

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Would I buy a new .300 Savage or the .308 Marlin Express?   Tough questions, I happen to like the .300 Savage and I reload for it.  I load on the hot side for my Remington 722, 300 Savage so it is best to have only one in the house. 

So the big question is would I buy a .308 Marlin Express.  The Las Vegas Odds Makers would tell you it is DOA.  But they would tell you that any new round developed would not make it.  Gun racks contain many rounds since my birth that have not made it, or they have had marginal sales.  It does not mean the rounds are poor, but there are many around who can tell you why a round failed or have had weak sales.  Think about the .222 Remington, and the 222 Remington Magnum, the .225 Winchester, the 6.5 Remington Magnum, the 5MM Remington, the .22 Remington Jet, will the Remington Short Action Ultra Magnums, and the WSM Winchesters live long.  And how can we forget the .375, .356, and the .307 Winchesters.  The numbers tells us that far more new rounds will die then make it in the market place.

I have liked the Marlin 336 for a lot of years.  I was short a deer rifle for my wife because we had left the Jungle Carbine at the fire lookout with Mom.  Both of us were rather impressed with the bear number at the tower.  After Mom told us about the bear trying to get into the outhouse with her, my wife insisted that we leave the Carbine with Mom.  We were newly weds at the time and poor as church mice.  So the answer was to barrow a deer rifle from long time friends who had a rack full.  They pointed at the rack and told us to pick a rifle.  The rifle we choose was a Marlin 336A, with a 24-inch barrel in 30-30 Winchester.

It was a plain rifle but of solid construction, and far more accurate then the Jungle Carbine.  On the plus side the recoil was not as nasty either.  At the end of the season we returned the rifle, but we retain the knowledge that the Marlin 336 is a solid firearm.

I have had a 30-30 Marlin 336 for about 25 years.  It has a 4x scope on it, and it has a 20-inch barrel what makes it fast handling in tight cover.  It is my nasty weather, tight cover rifle.  It is a very solid, accurate firearm that fills a need. 

Now that Marlin has come up with the XLR rifles they have caught my attention.  One in a standard successful cartridge would be fine, but a dance with the new round on the block could prove interesting.  A little more punch then the 30-30 would be welcome for those two-hundred yard shots over in the Salmon-Trinity Mountains or up in the Marble Mountains.  Both contain bear that think the sound of a shot during deer season is the dinner bell.  But everybody’s bear is a little different; in this case we are talking about the Black Bear, not a grizzly.

But the big question is will I be able to find ammunition in ten years.  Frankly the purchaser of any new rifle round should ask himself or herself the same question, because the odds are it will not make it.

Like any other new rifle, I will need a scope, reloading dies, cases, bullets, appropriate powder, and primers.  In the case of the .308 Marlin Express 500 new cases maybe in order.  That is a real investiment.  But it may not be around ten years down the road.  But that is no more then the investment then the guy with the new Wildcat makes.  The big difference is I do not known if there is a base case out there from which I can make .308 Marlin case. 

They say that my reloads will not match the Factory velocities, but they will exceed the 30-30 Winchester.  I will go for that, and have a lot of fun developing loads and firing them across my Chrony.

If my brother can load for a 6.5-.256 Newton, I should be able to load for a .308 Marlin Express.

But there may be another motive behind the introduction of the .308 Marlin Express.  I am sure the Bean Counters involved with the concept looked at the bottomline.  Maybe not the development of the new round, but making sure that Marlin recovers its investment.

If the risk of commercial failure is high how does Marlin justify the development dollars?

My assumption is the cost of manufacture for the XLR series of rifles is close to the same.  While the 30-30 and the .35 Remington chambering will develop a fair amount of publicity, paid and free, the 308 Marlin Express will create controversy.  It will create positive controversy for Marlin Rifles, while they maybe some negative issues on the life span of the new round.  In the process Marlin and Hornaday gets a lot of free press.  But the issue may sell more rifles in 30-30 and .35 Remington. 

In the process Hornaday is also getting positive press over its competition in bullet, and load development.

My hat is off to both manufactures.


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Offline jvs

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Like I hinted at before Coyote Hunter, you are out of touch with reality.

Cabela's

Federal Ammo
.30-30        $7.99
.35 Rem     $13.99
.243          $8.99
.308          $8.99
.30-06       $8.99
7mm Mag   $11.99
300 Mag    $11.99


Walmarts
.30-30 ammo   $11.99
etc, etc, etc.


By all means go buy a dozen of those .308 Express'.  You should feel secure in your old age.  Now is the time to plan for the day that your wise investments pay off.  If you are that sure that these will someday provide you with a big payday, Go For IT ! You deserve it... Buy a Dozen.   Who ever heard of somone buying just one of something that is sure to take off in value.  Marlin will need your support, for that new caliber will not sell to anyone except the serious Collector or a person who believes the hype.  A year and a half from now, there will be plenty on the 'Used' Racks with no premium involved.   It happens all the time.  In the past month, I saw (3) .450's on the used rack.

As far as performance goes, your decision hangs on the hype you have read on it so far.  Do you really want people to think that you believe everything you read? (I hope not)  But hey...by all means, do it your way. If you really have an urgent need for this Pea Shooter, I think you should buy it.



 

    
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Offline nabob

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Coyote Hunter, when you suggested that the problem might be his skill instead of the cartridge, YOU began the ad hominem attack first. Don't put it on jvs for responding to something you began.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Coyote Hunter, when you suggested that the problem might be his skill instead of the cartridge, YOU began the ad hominem attack first. Don't put it on jvs for responding to something you began.

Not so.  Nowhere in his anecdote did jvs say HE was the one who shot the bear with the .444 or 12 gauge, both of which are normally considered fine choices for bear - even the big variety.  Nor did I make any such assumption.  In fact, it never occurred to me.

But if jvs was weilding either the .444 or 12 gauge it might explain his reaction...
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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jvs –

Nowhere did I state that the.308 Marlin would be the least expensive ammo, only that it would not be $40 a box, that the list price is $25.35 and that many people shoot ammo that is considerably more expensive.  Cabelas also lists Federal .30-30 ammo at $26.99 a box and Federal .308 ammo at up to $36.99 a box.  Garrett and Buffalo Bore do a tidy business selling hunting ammo for leverguns that runs $40 to $50 a box.  These companies are not in the business of making products that don’t sell, so a fair number of people must find the ammo affordable.

Thanks, but one .308 Marlin will be enough for me – I have other investments that will appreciate much faster.  By the way, I lost track of how many used .30-06’s I saw at the last gun show, and it was a relatively small one.

If people are foolish enough to think I believe everything I read, I don’t see that as my problem.  As to the .308 Marlin’s performance, I suspect it will be very close to the advertised number of 2660fps for a 160g bullet.


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Offline nabob

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Actually, it IS so, Coyote Hunter.

Your actual words were:

Quote
If you can't take even large black bears with that kind of energy, I suggest the problem is not the cartridge.

You did not say "the people shooting that bear", you said "you", in response to jvs' post. That is a direct answer to him, not an analysis of his anecdote.

You started the ad hominem attacks when you questioned his ability. If you did not mean it that way, then say so. I suspect very strongly that this is what jvs reacted to. I read your remark the same way he did.

Offline Mac11700

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Quote
If you can't take even large black bears with that kind of energy, I suggest the problem is not the cartridge.

Taken on it's own...out of context of the rest of his statement...one could possibly take it as a insult...but...that would be stretching it...a-lot...For me...I understand exactly what he is saying...It's not the cartridges fault...or lack of energy...but of shot placement...nothing more...If this offends someone..well..it shouldn't...5 people couldn't put this bear down...with a 444 & and a 12ga included...If these calibers do well against large Brown bears..they will do well against any other type of bear if shot placement is correct...

nabob...If you want to see what I mean about taking things out of context...a example would be something like this...
Quote
I guess part of it is that I don't much care for lever guns.
...one could argue the fact of your involvement on this thread based on your dislike for the round...since the only rifle being offered in this round is a Marlin Lever gun...see what I mean...

jvs...Since you don't own one of these rifles nor have shot them...How do you know for sure it will fail?...How is it you can tell it's fate in the world...your very adamant about it...
Quote
I may just keep a copy of this thread and run it again in about 3 years.  Then we will see who was right.  I don't really have a need to be right, but this time I will be.  Guaranteed.
Are you taking bets on this?

Mac
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Offline Cement Man

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Given my experiences with the quality and accuracy of Marlin lever guns, the SS and laminated stock, and the properties of the .308 Marlin Express ...  Yes, I would buy one.
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Actually, it IS so, Coyote Hunter.

Your actual words were:

Quote
If you can't take even large black bears with that kind of energy, I suggest the problem is not the cartridge.

You did not say "the people shooting that bear", you said "you", in response to jvs' post. That is a direct answer to him, not an analysis of his anecdote.

You started the ad hominem attacks when you questioned his ability. If you did not mean it that way, then say so. I suspect very strongly that this is what jvs reacted to. I read your remark the same way he did.

OK, fine.  My apologies if that was taken personally as it was not meant to be so.  I should have used words along the lines of "If a person can't..."
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Offline nabob

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Quote
Taken on it's own...out of context of the rest of his statement...one could possibly take it as a insult...but...that would be stretching it...a-lot

Well, that's one man's opinion. I disagree. To me, when someone says "you", he means the person to whom he is responding. No stretch needed there at all.

As for my dislike of lever guns, it stems from a physical problem I have in operating the action. I don't see how the fact I don't much care for lever guns somehow disqualifies me from offering an opinion on one, unless one is looking only to receive positive feedback. Lots of people don't like Hillary Clinton but that doesn't stop them from showing up to offer their opinion on her. You'll note my comments addressed the cartridge AND the gun it is being offered in. I think the cartridge fills a nonexistent niche in the overall pantheon of cartridges. I also warned people that my dislike might have to do with the fact that I don't like lever guns generally, so they can use that to judge my comments.

Overall, I think I've been fairly candid in both my assessment and the reasons for it. I don't see where there is a chance for misunderstanding.

Coyote Hunter has cleared up the misunderstanding, in my opinion, in his last post. Unless there is some reason to continue the bickering between thee and me, Mac, I consider the episode done.

Offline jvs

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"jvs...Since you don't own one of these rifles nor have shot them...How do you know for sure it will fail?...How is it you can tell it's fate in the world...your very adamant about it..."


Mac11700,

I own 2 Marlins, and like them.  What I meant by that statement is that it is a poor choice of caliber.  I think that Marlin makes one of the best Lever guns there are, and even though I don't have a .308 Express, I don't intend to own one.  But it's only common sense...  what would make anyone go out and want to buy something that is not readily available.  It is an uncommon shell.  It will always be a uncommon shell.  The history of the .307 should have been enough to keep Marlin away from it.  Unfortunately, it won't sell just because Marlin (or whoever) says it should.

In three to five years ammo will probably be so hard to find, it won't be funny to all of those people who bought the rifle.  Shops won't stock what doesn't sell.  Whoever Marlin paid to research the possible market for this caliber is going to get a real earfull in the future.

I don't intend to change people's minds, I am just offering my opinion.  If your opinion is different, so be it.  BUT !   Some people should stick to facts.   Ballistically the .308 Express is a poor choice, it has no clear advantage over many other calibers in the same catagory, smaller or larger.  The only single advantage it has is that it is sort of new, until you uncover the facts and leave out the hyperbole.

>>------------->  D.O.A.  <-------------<<

If Marlin had offered a .308 Win in the 20" 336 I would have bought at least one in a heartbeat. But NO.

 
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Offline Graybeard

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Either the arguing and personal attacks/bickering ends or the thread does. Either get back on topic or get out of this thread.


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Offline LEO

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I don't know if the 308 ME will make it or not but comparing it to the 307/356/375 is not really apples to apples.  Part of the reason for the 307/356 failure was availablility, I tried to get one 307/356 for over two years while they were still in production but I was always told they were backordered from several distributors.  When I was finally able to find one, I was told no ammo or brass was available not a lot of incentive to buy a rifle.  I know of several other people who had the same experience.  People will only put up with so much aggravation before they buy something else and forget it.  The 375 was a niche market cartridge that I feel failed largely due to packaging, had Winchester offered the 375, 307, and 356 in the standard rifle rather than XTR only their sales would have probably been better and had Marlin gotten the 307/356 into production and available they might have faired better also.  Plus the economic times now are different.  As far as the idea of the 308, with a tube magazine I don't think anyone is going to chamber a standard 308 Winchester in todays sue happy world.  If the 308 ME lives up to its claims though it should be a fine round for woods type hunting.  Will I buy one? well I have thought about it and I probably will but I will also buy several hundred cases at the same time.  It is the cartridge and the platform that are interesting, the cartridge itself offers nothing that other cartridges don't already do. 

Offline jvs

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Will I buy one? well I have thought about it and I probably will but I will also buy several hundred cases at the same time.  It is the cartridge and the platform that are interesting, the cartridge itself offers nothing that other cartridges don't already do. 

It is my understanding that no reloading components are to be available at this time. 
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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It is my understanding that no reloading components are to be available at this time. 

I always buy at least a couple boxes of factory ammo for every new rifle I buy.  That will be my starter brass.  Primers are no problem and the bullets I use will be the same as for my .30-30 - Speer 130g, 150g and 170g FN and Nosler 170g Partition RN.
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Offline nomosendero

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It is my understanding that no reloading components are to be available at this time. 

I always buy at least a couple boxes of factory ammo for every new rifle I buy.  That will be my starter brass.  Primers are no problem and the bullets I use will be the same as for my .30-30 - Speer 130g, 150g and 170g FN and Nosler 170g Partition RN.

Yes, & the 150XFN is now available as a 150TSX Flat Nose. You could start it at about 2,700 & with about 10" drop & about 1,100# of energy at 300 yards for Deer, so a Deer load out to 300 if accurate. For Black Bear at 200 yards you would have 1,500ft.# of energy, which is plenty with a bullet that would give a passthrough from any logical angle at 200 or less as it will outpenetrate a 170NP. So you don't have to have a spitzer
at these ranges & I would not be afraid of it at all.

That being said & back to the original question, I have guns that I prefer over these 2 rounds for the intended application & I will not buy the new
Marlin, but I do see it will work, most of it would boil down to if a person wanted to use the Marlin rifle. I don't for this application, but I have an
XLR in 45-70, & for that cartridge, I prefer the Marlin over all others.
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Offline jvs

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I always buy at least a couple boxes of factory ammo for every new rifle I buy. 

I do exactly the same thing.  I just bought a 6.5 mag rifle and I spent the last month chasing down 8 boxes of retail ammo and 900 pieces of brass and bullets for it.  If I ever get to the bottom of that pile of brass and bullets, which I highly doubt, the rifle will be worn out.

If I were to buy a .308 Express I would have to buy 50 boxes of retail ammo to do the same thing.  Not only that, but the 160gr bullet that is supposed to fly best out of that rifle also isn't available as a reloading component.  As it stands now, if you buy a .308 Express, you are doomed forever at buying retail ammo for as long as you can find it and reloading the brass (with non-existent Dies) until it wears out, and with bullet weights that aren't suggested by the manufacturer.  Not that 150's or 170's won't fly, but they aren't 160's. 

If you are a Collector and you never plan on shooting it you don't have this problem.  If you shoot rifles, and try to plan ahead, what roadblocks are there to using it for years?  Plenty I think. 
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Offline LEO

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I am sure that Hornady will offer brass for the rifle after it is on the market, I mean you are right, in that right now there are is no brass available but then there are no rifles available either so it is kind of a moot point for the time being.

As far as the 160 grain bullets go, I can't imagine that if it shoots 160 grain bullets it won't also shoot 150, and 170 grain bullets reasonably well.  I know Hornady is not offering the new levereloution bullet as a component yet and may never but there are many fine bullets suitable for loading into the cartridge, I mean after all it is a standard .308 bullet and there are plenty of choices, you could even load spitzers and such if you are willing to limit capacity to two rounds, one in the chamber and one in the magazine.  As well I am sure that once the rifle gets on the market the die manufacutuers will produce dies for it, they did with the 450 Marlin and a bunch of other small market calibers.

But like most firearms some people will like it, some will be indifferent, and some will hate it.  It is good that we don't all like the same thing after all.  As an aside, I finally saw an XLR today and if this one is typical of the XLRs I won't buy one, nothing wrong with the rifle it is just that the pictures I had seen of them the finish on the wood and metal appeared to be fairly satin.  The one I saw shined like a mirror, so it may be the blued version for me.  But I will wait and see when they actually get onto the dealers gun racks.  Another thing that has brought about this potential change about buying one is I finally found a Savage 99F in 308 at a price I could afford in a condition that I could live with so that kind of changes my desire for the Marlin.  It was not necessarily the Marlin platform I was after but near 308 performance out of a lever rifle, well now I have 308 perfomance out of the lever rifle.  The Marlin offers nothing over the 99 except being stainless which where I live and hunt is not that big of a thing, certainly not worth the 600 or so dollars the Marlin will cost plus components.

Offline dpastordan

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I'd go with the .300 Savage.  There are plenty of rifles out there shooting this round and the ammo guys still make it.  I still see the shells on the gun store shelves.  I'm not knocking Marlin's version of the .308 but if I bought a lever action in .308 I'd go with the Browning BLR or find a Savage 99 in .308. 

Personally, I think the Marlin .444 or the 1895 in .45/70 would be my preference based on the animals (up to Bison and including boars) mentioned.  I'm not knocking the effectiveness of the .300 or .308...just want a bigger hole in bears, boars, and bison. 

Offline nomosendero

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I just read the Marlin site concerning the rifles & they will have a 1-10 twist. This will be great for 150-180 grain bullets & others for that matter, no magic weight required. Horn. is touting the 160 because they offer a 160, simple as that. The very light syn. tip would make a heavier offering difficult, as it would rob powder space. So with regular bullets, many will fly just fine.

No doubt, dies & brass will be avail. soon for this round just like they were for the 450 & 204, no reason for this not to happen. I don't have this gun on my list, but I see zero reason for anyone to worry about the avail. of components.
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Offline jvs

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I never had any doubt that 150 and 170 gr RN or FN bullets would fly all right out of this new rifle.  My big concern is that suggested component 160 gr bullets will not be available, the Dies are not available at this time, nor is empty Brass available and possibly won't be.  If any or all of these items do suddenly become available the retail prices may be prohibitive and it may be difficult to average the cost by reloading.  But after you already purchased the rifle you really have no choice than to pay the price, unless you want to keep buying retail ammo.

I get the feeling that this caliber is nothing more than a Designer/Market Maker caliber.  I also believe it would be prudent to wait until you find out what components and Dies become available and what they will cost before you buy the rifle. 

In reference to the original question, the 300 Savage has passed the test of time.  The Marlin .308 Express has not and is nothing to get excited about, except the Ballard Rifling, which is a very big plus.  Not that I would buy a 300 Savage either, but if I only had a choice of the two, it would be the 300 Savage. 

I like Marlin Lever Guns, I own the functional .30-30 and .35 Rem.  Back in the mid 90's I couldn't wait for Marlin to come out with the MR-7 Bolt Action, I regret not buying all MR-7 calibers as they came out.  I admire the heavy hitting .444 and the .45/70.  This is where Marlin shines brightly.  But I will have to pass on this one.  Probably because I am too old to realize a gain in performance and value of this new caliber.  This one is for the Collectors and the Youngsters. IMO.
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Offline nomosendero

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Not sure why anyone thinks this round will not have dies avail. or brass for that matter, when the other recent offerings from Hornady
do, people can suppose what they wish. I am only saying I would not worry if I wanted one, but I don't so I am tired of the matter.
The 160 gr. bullet, avail. or not would have no relevance to me. I am not a prophet & I would rather take a wait and see stance
instead of pretending to know the outcome of this round. Since I have no stake in the matter, it will be fun to watch.
And for that reason, I am done with this topic.


 
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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jvs -

You say you have a .30-30 yet you cannot get Hornady 160g flex-tip bullets for that, either.  Has that been a problem? 

Brass for the .204 Ruger is available from several manufacturers, brass from the .450 Marlin is available from Hornady, and there are more manufacturers of dies for these cartridges that there are for the .300WSM.  Worst case, brass will be available by firing factory loads and standard primers, powder and bullets can be used for reloading.  Expect dies and brass shortly after Hornady submits the .308 Marlin to SAAMI in early 2007.  If the bullets are NEVER available, it won't bother me as I don't intend to use them.

" The Marlin .308 Express ... is nothing to get excited about, except the Ballard Rifling.." ???  At 200 yards the .308 Marlin offers 1000fpe more than Hornady's standard .30-30 ammo and at 400 yards it offers 365fpe more than the .30-30 offers at 200 yards.  By my calculations the .308 MArlin will add 100 ayrds to the effective range (1000fpe mark) of my .30-30 and 170g Partitions and 130 yards over my 170g Speer loads.  Yet people turn their noses up at this cartridge.

All together now, noses high...
Coyote Hunter
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Offline shilo

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I think the 308 experss is going to do well. People have been wanting an improved performance 30 cal out of a marlin for some time. As someone pointed out earlier, the 307, 356 and 375 suffered from lack of support. Either guns weren't available or components weren't. Seeing as how this round was just recently announced it's not surprising that components aren't available for it yet- neither are the guns. I am looking forward to watching this round and gun develop and if it lives up to it's performance claims I plan on buying one. A Marlin 336 that almost matches the 308 winchester sounds like a good deer gun to me.

Offline beemanbeme

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Good luck, I hope it works out.  The question begs to be asked however, why wasn't the .307 a raging success???  Poor marketing can't be the answer.  Look at where the 7-08 is with no marketing. 

Offline nomosendero

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Actually, the gun writers pushed the 7-08 VERY hard. Seems like every month for awhile one of the gun rags would state that the 7-08 was the best Deer round ever & it is a great one.
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Good luck, I hope it works out.  The question begs to be asked however, why wasn't the .307 a raging success???  Poor marketing can't be the answer.  Look at where the 7-08 is with no marketing. 
I don't know the answer but I think it was a combination of factors, including market timing, some bad press initially, mediocre accuracy in the Winchester rifles, and a general aura of magnumitis on the part of the buying public.

What has changed?  One thing that has changed is an appreciation for the .307 has developed since its initial failure.  Another is the success of the Marlin Guide Guns and Cowboy Action Shooting have generated additional interest in leverguns.  And Marlins have a pretty good reputation for accuracy - not match grade, but certainly good enough for ranges well beyond the .30-30's capabilities. 
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Offline Sourdough

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Why go to a new UNPROVEN cartridge, that may or maynot stay around?  You would be better off in my openion to stick with a standard .308, or one of the old tried and true cartridges that is not here today and gone tomorrow.  I have two .350Rem Mags, love them but how long is the ammo going to be made this time.  As for the Bear Issue, I live in Bear Country, I don't use anything less than .338 for bears.  I also use .350 Rem Mags, .35 Whelens, or the venerable old 45-70.  In a pinch I might use a 30-06, but I would have to really think about it first.  No, bears are no harder to kill than anything else, but every once in a while, one just refuses to die, and is set on getting revenge.  I personally have seen too many people that got caught and punished for shooting a bear.  It's not pretty, and it can be Black Bears as well as Grizzlies here where I live.  When I shoot a bear I want that thing to hit the ground now, preferiably dead, and I don't feel a .30 cal has the capability to do that consistantly. 
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Sourdough -

If you "might use a 30-06, but I would have to really think about it first" and "don't feel a .30 cal has the capability", there is little point in suggesting a .308 Win for Bear country as it oviously wouldn't suffice for you either.  So let's forget about the .308 Marlin being inadequate on that basis.

As to the .308 Marlin being "UNPROVEN", the on-target capabilities of the .308 Win, .307 Win, and .300 Savage are all fairly well known quantities.  The .308 Marlin will certainly match the .300 Savage velocities with handloads and will probably do better.  Many shooters will be happy if that is the case.  It will certainly suffice for deer and even elk. 

As to enduring in the market, you are correct - the .308 Marlin is "UNPROVEN".  Well, considering you can't buy one yet, that is hardly surprising.  I missed out when the .307 Win was introduced and I don't intend to miss out on the .30 Marlin.

By the way, if you can find me a Marlin in good shape and factory chambered for wither the .307 Win or .308  Win I'll be happy to pay a reasonable price for it.  What's that you say?  Marlin never produced any lever rifles in .307 Win or .308 Win?  Makes it tough to go with either of them, doesn't it?


Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!