Author Topic: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!  (Read 2286 times)

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Offline Jerry Lester

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Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« on: November 18, 2006, 11:38:55 AM »
I struck out this morning not really expecting much luck. I was hunting a new place, and I'd only had a chance to walk around one edge of it about a week ago. It's a small 60 acre tract of woods that links up to a pretty good sized wooded area, with broken cow pastures, and hayfields scattered around it. I looked at Live Local(satalite imagery) last night, and saw a potential funnel area connecting the two areas. It's a good thing I did too, because this private land that only three of us recieved permission to hunt on had a line(literally three/none of ours) of pick-up's sneaking through the gate when I got there. At first I was steamed, then decided to use'em to my advantage.

I parked at the gate, and walked in to the funnel area that I saw last night, and in the dark, found a place to hopefully intercept an escaping deer. I was in place about 15-20 minutes before first light, and heard several deer slipping past me on both sides as the other guys pushed their way into the heart of this small area ;D. By shooting light, enough deer had slipped by that I seriously doubted there was any left.

About 10-15 minutes after good light, I caught a slight movement at about 80 yards out in front of me. He was looking back over his shoulder, I'm figuring at the other guys. He snuck right into my lap, and was so unaware that I was there that he actually picked up a couple acorns to crunch at about 30 yards. He kept sniffing the air, and looking back where he came from. The wind shifted, and he winded me I'm guessing, because he jerked his head up, and looked me straight in the eyes at about 15-20 yards. He was angled facing me a little too much to take out the shoulder, but it was a now or never moment. I slipped a 158g SP a couple inches in front of the shoulder, and it exited the second from the last rib on the other side. To my pleasant surprize :o, he colapsed in his tracks!

This makes number 11 with this 357 Blackhawk... 


Offline handi243

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2006, 12:13:35 PM »
Keep smoking them with that to small for whitetail has killed up to grizzly 357 mag i just don't know what Mr. Wesson was doing shooting all that big game with a small gun like that!!!!!!!!!!! CONGRATS i got to catch up i only have a couple with my to small for deer 357mag. :o

Offline Almtnman

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2006, 01:18:35 PM »
Jerry, a very good deer hunting story. I think you not only had the deer and other hunters outsmarted on this one, you also knew what your handgun would do and did the job of taking the #11 deer with it. Congratulations! ;D
AMM
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Offline ratgunner

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2006, 05:48:15 PM »
Way to go Jerry.Thanks for sharing.
"Non Gratum Anus Rodentum"

Offline Del

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2006, 07:48:26 AM »
CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Good to hear your continued good results on deer w/your .357 mangnum handgun!!  If you can remember, would you share some more information with us?!! 

1) Can give more details on the bullet / load you used on this last deer??
2) Is this your standard load, or have you used other bullets?
3) Would you more information on the previous 10 deer taken w/your .357? (load, distance of shot, animal reaction, distance animal traveled,etc.)

Also good job on the "computer" scouting to find the funnel, and not giving up when you seeing so many other hunters trucks.

 
I LOVE TO HUNT!
Especially with a Handgun!!

Offline Sverre A.

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2006, 10:56:09 AM »
I started with a S&W 686 in 1980 in South Africa,  and this August I ended up in Zimbabwe with a buffalo and a 454.


In April - I will have my usually "spring-travel" to South Africa.
Now I have ordered a FA mod. 83 in .357, and think about "starting at scratch".
With this gun - I thought I should find a load with 180 gr. XTP at about 1600 fps.

But with a .357 - I have to limit my shots in distance and limit the size of the species.
But why not?  I have not any place left for taxidermised animals on my wall anyway.

Somebody who have experience to share about 180 gr XTP in a .357 at that velocity?

Offline safetysheriff

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2006, 10:57:22 AM »
J'

backstraps and venision steaks with a .357 mag!   evidently a good bullet and a good load to get that much penetration.   great job.

Del'

i've seen good work done with American Eagles (Federal's) with 158 gr' JSP's on whitetails at reasonable distance.  they, too, penetrate well.   

good hunting to you both,

ss' 
Yet a little while and the wicked man shall be no more.   Though you mark his place he will not be there.   Ps. 37.

Offline Sverre A.

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2006, 11:12:34 AM »
I wrote 1980!
I`m not so experienced!
I should write 1999 and 8 times within this periode.

I think I need help with something ::)

Offline Jerry Lester

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2006, 07:51:05 PM »
CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Good to hear your continued good results on deer w/your .357 mangnum handgun!!  If you can remember, would you share some more information with us?!! 

1) Can give more details on the bullet / load you used on this last deer??
2) Is this your standard load, or have you used other bullets?
3) Would you more information on the previous 10 deer taken w/your .357? (load, distance of shot, animal reaction, distance animal traveled,etc.)

Also good job on the "computer" scouting to find the funnel, and not giving up when you seeing so many other hunters trucks.

 

Actually, I've killed considerably more deer with a 357 magnum rifle than with this Blackhawk. I base my performance conclusions on the combination of the two(rifle/revolver) by the size of the deer, and shot impact angle combined with the velocities "vs" the ranges. Using these factors, I judge a given bullets performance on a compromise of expansion, and penetration. I really don't judge by how far a deer runs before falling because that can be very misleading.

I've used a wide array of bullet designs to kill deer with the 357 magnum from 125g up. The first one with this Blackhawk was a 158g XTP-HP at around 1400 fps. The range was around 25 yards or so. The bullet stopped against the off rib-cage after only penetrating the facing rib-cage, and tearing up the vitals. I killed a couple more with this combo before deciding that it just would not consistantly exit a deer no matter what the angle was. All dropped though within a short distance. I also killed a few with this combo at a muzzle velocity of around 1700 fps in the rifles. Internal damage to the vitals was devestating, but penetration was bad enough that I actually stopped this bullet in the facing shoulder of a deer at around 40 yards. The bullet never even made it to the rib-cage much less the vitals. It took a finishing head shot at about 90-100 yards once the deer stopped long enough, and ended my experimenting with the XTP-HP's for good.

I could probably sit here and type a very boring, extemely long post about lots of other bullets, and results, but I'd a whole lot rather just give you some solid, tried, and reliable suggestions...

First off, and I consider it to be the most important, stay away from HP's in the 357 magnum for deer. Yes, they'll work OK sometimes, and might even fool you into fully trusting them, but they "will" let you down eventually.

The 357 will consistantly kill deer with no expansion at all, but you may end up with a long tracking job. You really need at least some expansion to reliably put'em down within a reasonable distance. My goal is the deer on the ground within 50 yards or less.

158g XTP-FP's will give you excellent results at starting velocities of 1300-1500 fps at ranges up to 50+ yards. They'll work pretty good even up to around 1700 fps, but try not too hit too much solid bone, or take a shot less than 40 yards if you want an exit. I personally want an exit, so a lot more blood hits the ground in case I do have to track one.

I've pretty much settled on 158g Remington SP's at 1400 fps from my Blackhawk, and around 1800 from my rifle. I've killed deer up to 60+ yards with this combo in my Blackhawk, and up to 150-200 yards with it in my rifle. I absolutely do "not" recomend using this combo past 100 yards as it acts like a FMJ, and you'd better make an absolutely perfect shot. You'll still get an exit, but the tracking may stretch out to 100+ yards or more so use good sense, and don't push it unless you very confident in both your shooting skills, and tracking ability.

My current load I'm using in both the Blackhawk, and rifle is...

158g Remington SP's
CCI 550 primers
17.5g of Lil'Gun
Starline cases

I feel confident that this load should be safe in any Ruger, or Marlin rifle, but work up anyways just to be safe. I've actually went higher for around 2000 fps in the rifle, but there's no sense in pushing a short range gun to the max for such an insignificant return. For what it's worth though, I do believe, from testing this bullet in several mediums at those velocities at ranges as close as 5 yards that it'll hold up just fine on a deer even at an impact velocity of 2000 fps on a broadside shot. That's hardcast bullet performance from a jacketed SP, with the plus of expanding to wreak havoc on the vitals.

Lastly, After killing literally dozens of deer with the 357 magnum from a rifle, and these 11 with the revolver, I've come to the conclusion that it takes three factors to get the most from this caliber on deer. You need enough penetration to give consistant exits(even on shoulders). You also need at least some expansion to consistantly inflict a large enough wound channel. The third, and least important of the three is impact velocity. I firmly believe that hydrostatic shock plays at least some part in quick humane kills. A deer hit with a .357" bullet moving at less than 1000 fps definately takes longer to die than one hit at 1300+ regardless of the bullet design or construction.

Hope this helps?


Offline Del

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2006, 09:45:32 AM »
Jerry,

Thank you for sharing your "field experience" w/the .357 mag!!

Have you used the 180 JHP's much??  If yes, which ones & how did they perform for you??

I have some 180 grn HP Hornady XTP's & Nosler Partition's already loaded up at/near max, and thought about using them on deer.

I have used the .44 mag & .454 Casull in revolvers, and .30-30 Win. Super 14 Contender barrel, on deer & larger animals - but wanted to try my new 4 5/8" Ruger Flat-top .357 on deer & smaller animals. 

Any information you could share would be appreciated! 
If you care to "go into lots of detail", yet think it would be to long for a post here, please feel free to send me a PM.

Thank you for your time,
Del
I LOVE TO HUNT!
Especially with a Handgun!!

Offline Old Griz

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2006, 01:22:57 PM »
Jerry, I hate to tell you this, but a .357 is just not enough gun to kill a deer with. If the bullet isn't the same diameter as a quarter; and it doesn't throw out a chunk of lead that weighs a half a pound; and at velocities that rival a SR-71; and doesn't hurt all over when you shoot it, then you just ain't got enough gun.  ;D

Congratulations brother, I love it!
Griz
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Offline ratgunner

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2006, 01:52:43 PM »
HHMMMM, ;DThere are some down at the smallbore rifle forum who should read your last paragraph Jerry.
"Non Gratum Anus Rodentum"

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2006, 02:01:17 PM »
Congradulations Jerry  8)
Please pass the slim jims ;D

Offline redhawk44p

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2006, 12:52:44 PM »
I saw a buck killed with a 357 using 125 JHPs last week. It simply jellied a huge area of the lungs. Congrats on your fine deer.

Offline armory414

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2006, 02:28:27 AM »
Jerry,  I've shot several deer with .44 mag using 240 gr. JHP's, and am starting to feel the same as you about the hollow points.  I've been lucky so far with lung shots and a neck shot.  But my feeling is that if I ever hit bone on the way in it could result in a wounded deer.  With the lung shots I've had the deer have still managed to run 100-200 yards.  There were not exit wounds, as the bullet had fully expanded and then disintegrated against a rib or shoulder blade after passing through the chest cavity.  Luckily all have fallen in open fields, but if I had to track them through brush those could have been all day affairs.

Offline rimfire

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2006, 10:38:50 AM »
Its funny because I hae always heard the exact opposite... that the 240 JHPs would never expand on a long shot and would just pencil hole the deer so they would run a long ways.  You are saying they tend to overexpand.

I just shot a small deer with a 210 XTP out of a 41 mag and the bullet did exactly as you described.  It opened and plowed through to the off side of the chest cavity where it stopped after breaking a rib.  It never penetrated the off side hide.  Surprised me after everything I have heard about lack of expansion.
Be honest with yourself.  Can you guarantee you would hit a paper plate at 250 yards...100 yards...50 yards?  Then you have no business replacing the plate with a live animal.

Offline Jerry Lester

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2006, 07:04:50 PM »
I've killed quite a few deer with HP's, and yes, they'll work as long as everything goes as planned. Here's a very good example of why I stopped using them.

If you've worked up a deer for the freezer, I'm sure you've noticed the two ridges of hard bone that stick out from the main shoulder blade. I've hit that bone head on a couple+ times, and sometimes a HP will just bust right through to the vitals. Other times though, those ridges (especially the larger ridge) will catch a HP on one side of the bullet nose. When that happens, a HP can, and definately will sometimes cave in on that side,and "it can" send the bullet tumbling off at a steep enough angle to completely miss anything vital. I shot one smaller deer several years ago with a 158g XTP-HP from my rifle, and it turned the bullet so hard that it literally ripped about a 6"-7"" split across the deers shoulder, and glanced off the ribcage never even penetrating the chest. this was on a nearly perfect broadside shot just slightly quartering towards me. If I hadn't of been so sure of the shot, I might have dismissed it as a clean miss. I followed up though, and finished him with a shot the the base of the skull. I was amazed at the absolute failure that that bullet impact showed. I would just brush it off as a defective bullet or some other odd cause, but I've seen similar results in several deer since that proved, to me anyway, that a HP can not be fully trusted, at least in .357". The XTP-HP's in any weight are quite a bit togher than any other jacketed HP, so you can do the math. I've also busted 125g XTP-HP's on shoulder blades blowing a huge wound in the shoulder, with not a single fragment making it through the blade.

You might kill ten in a row just fine with a HP, but then you might shoot a single deer several times only to ultimately lose it after following a long blood trail. I'd just rather lean on the dependable side, and use a good SP so I "know" what the exact results will be before the gun ever kicks. :)   

Offline apollo

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2006, 08:46:35 AM »
If you had bee n using the 180 gr. XTP's you probably wouldn't have had any issues like you did with the 158's and 125's. There just too light.

Offline armory414

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Re: Got another with my 357 Blackhawk!
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2006, 11:11:23 AM »
Its funny because I hae always heard the exact opposite... that the 240 JHPs would never expand on a long shot and would just pencil hole the deer so they would run a long ways.  You are saying they tend to overexpand.

I just shot a small deer with a 210 XTP out of a 41 mag and the bullet did exactly as you described.  It opened and plowed through to the off side of the chest cavity where it stopped after breaking a rib.  It never penetrated the off side hide.  Surprised me after everything I have heard about lack of expansion.

With the last 2 deer I shot, the only thing left of the 240 gr. JHP was granules of the copper jacket and small bits of lead.  First case was about a 65 yd. shot, entered behind the ribs on left side, passed through lungs, hit against inside flat of shouder blade and stopped there, didn't even pass through and that's a thin bone.  Only an entrance wound and no blood trail.  Lungs were turned to jelly, but the doe ran 150 yards before dropping.  Second case was a 40 yd. shot, hit in the neck, bullet impacted neck bone and disintegrated on impact.  Transferred energy was enough to sever the spinal cord and drop it in its tracks, but damage to the bone itself was minimal.  I think it's just a matter of time before I hit an upper leg bone going in, and it will be a lost wounded deer.