.243 85gr= Strange Reaction from Deer?

[mitchell]

Because a ,50 BMG or a .458 would give very little shock to a deer.A 220 Swift on the other hand would spend its energy INSIDE the deer..458 would most likely punch a .45 cal. hole in and out.Catching on yet ?

here here if a bullet gets out of a body it still has energy if you use a bullet that stops in the body then the deer will have better odds of droping

[Brithunter]

Hmmmm Really I must remember this and also tell all the deer that have dropped from pass through bullets 

here here if a bullet gets out of a body it still has energy if you use a bullet that stops in the body then the deer will have better odds of droping

    In fact it's my experiencee that the deer that I have shot and have recovered the bullet from are the ones which ran and did not drop to the shot. Not from marginal calibres either as one was a whitetail buck shot with a 139 Grn 7mm Hornady bullet (7mm mauser) and another with a 150 Grn Hornady .303 bullet. I also avoid pure heart shots as I have found by shooting a little higher and taking out the low lungs and the blood vessels which leave the heart drops the deer far quicker and does not give teh "heart run deer" which a pure heart shot often gives.

[Guy Pike]

Stranger yet the state of Maine allows deer to be taken with the 22 mag! I have often pondered the logic of this but have never received an answer to my queries as to who thought up this novel approach. While I know from personal experience that it can be done, it does require a certain amount of marksmanship and judgment whether or not to shoot, etc. Men sometimes don't "know they're dead" either and just keep on trying to kill the other guy 'til they finally drop. A very hard thread to answer definitively and one that will rage on long after I'm gone for sure, eh?

[RicMic]

A few years ago I shot 3 deer in a row about 5 to 7 seconds apart.  I was using a Hornady 139 grain Spire point in a 280 REM.  First one tipped straight over, second one ran like mad for 60 yards, third one tipped straight over.  All were shot broad side, all were shot through the heart (top half of the heart was gone and the lungs were a mess).  Why did they behave so differently and also the same?  I guess it's hard to say how animals will react when shot, much like man.

[Lee Robinson]

Got this buck on Jan 1st this year...with a 243. Dropped in his tracks without taking a single step.

[JWP58]

Yes I have.  That's why I don't hunt deer or anything for that matter with a .243. 

LOL.....let me guess you use a 338win mag....lol

[nomosendero]

Lee, which one of you took it?

[Lee Robinson]

Here is full story...

Jan 1st, 2010, I took my daughter hunting. It was a successful day. We were in the woods, not pasture, and she spotted the deer at about 85-90 yards behind me, but it wouldn't turn for the larger profile shot that she is familiar with. We waited, and waited, and waited. The deer was slowly walking away from us and wasn't turning. Although she is a great shot it takes her a while to get on a small target and we felt a head shot was too small a target at that distance given her current skill level. She gave me the rifle and asked me to take a head shot before he disappeared into thicker brush. I did so with her 243 rifle, dropping him where he stood. I am very pleased with her patience, for spotting the deer behind my line of vision, for making the call to give me the rifle to take the head shot, and I consider this just as much her deer as it is mine. I wouldn't have gotten it if she didn't see it. I also wouldn't have gotten it if she wouldn't have offered me the shot. Between 6:30 and 10 am, we saw 5 deer...a spike, a fawn, a 6 point, a deer that we weren't able to determine as a buck or doe, and then this one. It was a great way to start off the new year. Even though I took the shot, I am very proud of her.

[nomosendero]

You should be proud of her, she is a very disciplined young lady. A lot of kids would have wanted to take the shot if they saw it first. She was cool headed and logical & grown-up enough to hand you the rifle, most impressive!! Yes, this was a shared success for sure!

Not only that, but neither of you will ever forget it.Some of my best hunts were those where I sat with my boys before they were old enough to hunt alone. We still talk about those hunts & some of their first Deer they harvested. Enjoy!!

BTW, nice Buck!!

[Lee Robinson]

Thanks for the kind words.

Even though I like big bore handguns, I don't really care for the big rifles...and have always believed it is SHOT PLACEMENT that matters most. Given the accuracy of some of the 223 AR's, I have considered getting one for a "dual purpose" gun. Less than 1" groups at a 100 yards will easily let a competitent hunter pull off the kind of shots needed to put them down where they stand. A shot placed at the "base of the head" drops them like a brick. With a bi-pod and scope attached...and a well tuned load for the gun...that isn't a hard shot at all. Although I have never used any caliber less than 243 for hunting, I wouldn't hesitate to do so. It is shot placement that kills humainly.

[victorcharlie]

My experience with the 85 grain has been similar.  It drops them in their tracks.

[rickt300]

well... speaking of strange.....its amazing how tough little 120 lbs deer can be.

On october 22 of this year, I shot my first ever 120 lbs doe @ about 50-60ish yards.  I was using brother's 7mm mag with a 175 gr cor-lokt bullet (yeh I know WAYYY over kill).  It was a broad way shot directly through both lungs, in the way in, it broke the left shoulder, destroyed the heart, exploded both lungs, and the deer still managed to run about 15-20 yeards, can you believe that?

The enterance hole was... typical, sise of a 7mm, exit was about the size of a quarter.

It always amazes me when a bullet breaks a shoulder (top of the animal), destroys the heart (bottom of the animal) and explodes both lungs (in between).  Reminds me of the bullet path described by the Warren Commission...

Interestingly a lot of people think the shoulder on a deer is from the elbow up. So if the bullet did hit a couple inches above the "elbow" it would do as advertized. To me the shoulder begins at the shoulder blade.

[RWK]

The deer was in shock

[mechanic]

I had an uncle that shot 3 or 4 deer every year with a 22 handgun.  Yes it was illegal and out of season.  He's dead now if you want to dig him up and prosecute, go ahead.  Not condoning, just reporting.  He would wait until he could get close enough to make a head shot.

I also watched a young man empty a Marlin 30-30 at about 30yds into a small deer before it fell.  He hit it every time, with only one shot hitting vitals. 

Every man has his favorite can't miss caliber, but unless he puts it where it needs to go, he will lose the deer.

A shot through the vitals will kill everytime, may take a few minutes.  A CNS shot will kill immediately, if you don't miss.  Caliber is secondary to shot placement.

[roscoe]

85 grn are fine, 87 grn boattail h.p's are even better. I prefer Winchester Supreme 95 Grn. Ballistic Silvertips in my 243. I've killed many with it and haven't had to look very far for them. Sometime they Bang Flop and sometimes they forget their dead and run a short distance; they're always dead though!

 

[nomosendero]

That's a fine Whitetail

[Huffmanite]

My only comment about the strange reaction to deer being shot with a .243 is to tell a story about a hunting buddy back in the late 1960s, who used a 243 for three whitetail deer seasons that we hunted together.  Think my friend always got his 2 buck limit each of those seasons, but can only recall one of his deer just dropping where he'd shot the deer and my buddy had shot that one in the spline of its neck.   Most of the time, the deer trotted or ran off like he'd missed, often traveling up to 50 or so yards before dropping.  Lucky for him our area of hunting was fairly open and it was easy to find the deer.   Now in defense of the 243, as I remember back then their was a problem with the 243 factory bullets being on the hard side with poor expansion, which may have been my friends problem with dropping the small whitetail deer where we hunted.  It sure wasn't his shot placement that was the problem.  He was a very experienced deer hunter, growing up deer hunting with his father, and when in the army he had shot on several army rifle marksman teams at the bases he was stationed.  I hunted with a 7.65 1891 Argentine sporter I'd bought from my hunting buddy, who'd sold it to me to help pay for the 243.  He seldom had a problem of a deer running off when he'd shot one with the 7.65 argy and neither did I.  Anyway, my friend gave up on the 243 as his deer rifle and replaced it with a 308, ending his routine of looking for his deer after shooting one.

[Lee Robinson]

For the record...not only did the buck I posted above drop where he stood, but I have also taken deer with 30-06 and with a double lung and heart shot I have seen them run about 50 yards with about a gallon of blood on their path. I also know of a guy that shot a buck with a 50 caliber muzzleloader taking out both shoulders and he saw the buck callapse, get up in the hind quarters and run like a wheel barrel for about 40 yards before laying falling out. My point is, unless you hit the CNS, a deer might run a bit.

[Luckyducker]

I don't particularly like a 243 for deer hunting but if you need/want to use one the hollowpoint bullet is the only reasonable choice.  My son shot a deer through the heart with a handloaded 87 grain Hornady Interlock bullet about ten years ago and that deer ran a long ways.  We had him circled in and kept him going back and forth trying to find a way out but our presence kept him from going in a straight line to another wooded creek and disapperaing.  The bullet went right through the center of the heart like an arrow with a pass through and no blood trail.  I at first thought my son missed but after 5 or 6 minutes I could tell he was hit but none of us could get another shot on him, but finally the deer colapsed .  I have known a couple of guys that wouldn't hunt deer with anything but their 243 but I don't know what bullet they shoot them with.

[JPShelton]

I don't particularly like a 243 for deer hunting but if you need/want to use one the hollowpoint bullet is the only reasonable choice.  

I'll beg to differ.  The Nosler Partition isn't a hollow point.  It is a very reasonable choice for use in the .243 on game even bigger than whitetails.  Plain-Jain Remington Core Lockts aren't hollow points, either, but they work very well with the .243, too.

Since I am a huge fan of Barnes X bullets (and their newer TSX) bullets, and since they're pretty much all I've hunted "big game" with since they hit the market, I guess I do agree with the hollowpoint being the "only reasonable choice" after all, IF it is an all copper or all guiding metal design with kind of penetrating capability that Barnes bullets have.

Tight Groups,
JP

[anweis]

     Sierra Game King HP in 85grs

Well the rifle barked, the deer trotted about 10 feet and turned around and started walking back from the direction it had come from. The first shot penetrated the ribs, vitals and logged under the skin on the far brisket. The second was a broadside pass through.

You shot a deer and it died. What is so strange about that?
Both bullets did their job and the first one would have been enough. That 85 gr. Sierra has a reputation for accuracy and effectiveness killing at long ranges. It is one of the best choices for 243 or 6mm, but it is on the soft/explosive side. If the deer is less than 50 yards, the hunter would do well to avoid hitting heavy bones.

[S.S.]

Man this thread has survived a long time!
I do not hunt with a 243 but my hunting buddy does.
He has not lost a deer since I have known him so that
must say something for a 243.
Another hunts with a .223 Rem. Same results, no losses.
I have saw several different animals just stand there after
being shot. Just so they fall within a few seconds, no problem.

[KodiakKid]

my buddy erik shot a 220lb blacktail with a 75gr hollow point out of his 243

[pjeffreys]

i use the 85 gr hpgk in my son's h&r youth 243 and my dad's rem. 700 243. Both guns have taken deer this season and both deer dropped in their tracks. Tuesday evening i shot a deer with my 35 whelen using 250 gr hornady round nose and a max load of RL15. Now you ask why i'm telling you this. the deer i shot ran about 50 yards after she had been hit. i honestly thought i had missed her at first. when i went to look for sign i found meat and a portion of her liver along with blood. she was hit right where i was aiming and the bullet did a lot of damage but she still ran. the 243 is plenty of gun for deer and the 85 gr is a good choice. in my opinion energy doesn't kill, accuracy does.

[jackruff]

I've shot lots of deer with a 6mm Remington (100 grain CoreLokts) and lots with arrows (cedar with two-blade resharpenable broadheads).  With both some have fallen right there and some have run off, even though the apparent damage from the bullet or the arrow is the same.  The only thing I know to say is that what happens after the shot is unpredictable.  Whatever you shoot, shoot it well and the end result will be the same.

[moorepower]

The deer dies when it gets no O2 to the brain. The vast majority of "bang flops" are head shots and spine shots. To shot a deer in the heart of lungs and then to say the bullet did not do the job, because it ran 50 or 100 yards is nuts. Having grown up on a farm and doing all of our own meat processing, I can say, a .22 lr will bang flop a 1000# steer when shot between the eyes. I have also seen a deer shot by my 7 mag that exploded the heart and made a hole the size of your fist going out that ran for 100 yds. What does this mean? Just because it does not drop on the spot does not mean it is not going to die within 30-40 seconds of pure adrenaline rush.

[Huffmanite]

Back in the late 60s, shared a deer lease with guy who used a 243 to hunt with.  Guy was an extremely good shot and trust me, his bullet placement was always very good.  Yet, except for one neck shot, deer always ran after he'd shot them, before dropping.  One morning we'd gone to different parts of our lease to deer hunt.   I heard him shoot, then about 10 minutes later I heard him empty his hi-standard 22LR pistol.  Odd I thought.  Hour or so later, I returnd to our cabin and he is there dressing out the deer he'd shot.  I commented, heard you shoot the rifle, what were you shooting with the pistol?  He pointed to the area between the antlers of his deer.  There I could see the bullet holes from the pistol.  LOL, as usual after shooting the deer, it had run and then dropped.  As usual my friend had waited awhile before approaching the fallen deer.  He'd bent over and grabbed the deer by its antlers when the deer jumped up and began trying to gore him while he was holding on to the antlers.  Friend held off deer with one hand on antlers and managed to get his pistol out of its holster and empty it into deers head.  Think that was when he decided to switch to a 308 for deer hunting. 

[flintlock]

How did you eat those tough deer???

Parboil them like we do squirrels???

[moorepower]

I have seen the same reaction with a 300 Savage and an arrow thru the lungs. Lucky for my shorts I was still a few feet away when they got up. Neither of those deer took another shot to die, cause they were dead and did not know it yet. Both of them were good lung shots. That is why most people will give the deer a couple of minutes to die before going up to them. Dead is dead, how dead do you want them. Granted a Ballistic tip or an SST would probably be a little quicker, by a minute or two, but no more dead and less edible meat. I read up the  thread where an arrow kills better. How many people go running up to a deer right after they shoot it with an arrow? Almost none, because bow hunters know if they hit the lungs they ARE going to die very soon, and not to spook them into running any further. I thought just like alot of guys that the .243 was marginal for deer but the longer I hunt the less I think that way.

[south_river_redneck]

We're beatin' a dead horse here!  Blood loss is what kills deer!  Any bullet (yes, even a .22) WILL kill a deer if PUT IN THE RIGHT PLACE!  Energy, weight, caliber, amount of powder are all details.  Fact of the matter is, if the bullet gets deep enough to puncture the heart or deflate the lungs the animal WILL DIE, it's just a matter of how long it will take.