Where are all the 400's

[torque]

I was interested in trying a 40 caliber rifle based on something close to a 30-06 case.  I was thinking about trying to neck the new Ruger 375 up to a 40, but I wasn't sure if it would be possible or too close to an existing 40 cal.   Does anyone have any experience with 40's. There don't seem to be too many of them.

[G Curtis]

Take a look at the 405 winchester. It is basically a rimmed 30-06 size case blown out staight with a .411" dia bullet.

Brass, bullets and guns all genrally available.

[EDELWEISS]

I always wanted something like your talking about.  I searched for a 40 in a 308 or 3006 case, nothing as powerful as 458wm.  Everything I found required serious handloading, and thats still magic to me.  The 450 marlin seems interesting, now if I could only find a reasonably priced bolt gun in that caliber, it might be worth paying the 'wife tax'....

[Mikey]

What about that new Marlin 400 lever round??  Would that be something of interest to you???  Mikey.

[torque]

What about that new Marlin 400 lever round??  Would that be something of interest to you???  Mikey.

I assume you mean the new 450/400 nitro from Hornady?   It did look rather tempting, but I am not looking for a shoulder tearing African cartridge.  I am a hand loader, so I can take care of that pretty quickly.  Good call Mikey

[quickdtoo]

+1 for the .405 Winchester, it will push a 300gr bullet past 2400fps, brass is readily available from Hornady, .411 jacketed bullets are made by Barnes, Hornady, North Fork and Woodleigh. Cast bullets are plentiful.

Mine is in an H&R Target with the 28" barrel, haven't hunted with it, but it's super accurate with the 300gr Hornady SP.

Tim

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_No1_405.htm

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ammunition/bully_041805/index.html

http://www.northforkbullets.com/411-300.htm

[CowboyEngr]

Have you read what Chuck Hawks has to say about the 400 Whelen, or 411 Hawk?  His clarification of it's origin, with the completely unsized 30-06 case, and the correct establishment of the shoulder for headspace?  It makes perfect sense to me and has really made me want one, but it's still more dream than reality for me right now.  I would think it would work well within a standard length action and be a real hammer for nearly anything.  I have to question his velocity claims, but maybe I just need more education.

In reality, it probably wouldn't do anything that already established cartridges can't, but it would have to be a very interesting project.

If I were just sitting around with nothing to do and had lots of extra $$, I'd have to have one.

BB

[358Win]

The 405 Winchester, 450/400, and 400 Whelen all seem like good choices.  The 411 KDF or the 411 Taylor which is the basic belted case cut off at 2.5 inches and necked down to take 411 bullets is one of the better choices.  The new 375 Ruger case necked up would be almost perfect in my opinion.  A lot of folks would ask, why not just go with a 416 Taylor.  But the 411 has the serious advantage of being able to use 41 Magnum revolver bullets for plinking, small game, and target practice.  Then you have Woodleigh and others who make 411 rifle bullets in weights from 300 to 400 grain for the serious hunting applications.

[waterrat]

   You could drop by your local gunshop and pickup a used 300 win mag(now that their all being traded in for short,beltless mags) and have a425 express barrel installed. It's a 300 case opened up and the magazine needs no work and 300 brass will open up to 423 with no problems. It's a powerhouse equal to the 416 rem mag.

[torque]

I just found a couple of articles on the 400 H&H, I haven't seen any of these cartridges yet but they look promising. 

[quickdtoo]

Please share!!

Tim

http://www.african-hunter.com/new_h&h_cartridges.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/400_HHMag.htm

[torque]

Those are the two article I read actually.  I called H&H in New York.   They said the ammunition was not available in the US at the moment, but you can buy their rifles (anyone have around 45 grand I can have).  They did not have a date to expect the ammuntion either.  I cant find anyone making reloading dies for the cartridge either. 

[358Win]

Now that I have a bit more info on the 375 Ruger case, that should be ideal.  Any magnum bolt face action can be used.  The action length would depend on how much horsepower you want, need, or care to stand behind.  My personal preference would be for a short action.  But just necking the 375 Ruger up to 411, 416, or 423 would be the easiest.

I of course would want the 411 version.  Bullet weights in that diameter can be had from 170 grains up to 400 grains.  The Woodleighs being the best when the going gets tough.  An easy conversion would be to rebarrel a 300 Win Mag lots of those floating around.  The bolt face and length are already correct for a 411/375 Ruger and a 300 grain would go about 150 fps faster than the 375 H&H.

If that won't do the job I'm not sure what will.

[358Win]

The earlier mention of Marlin makes me pine for a sweet lever gun.  I think you could just neck the 450 Marlin cartridge down to 0.411 with a 0.300 neck and a 20 to 30 degree shoulder angle.  All you should have to to is rebarrel to a 0.411 barrel and chamber and you should be good to go.  I'm fairly certain that no other action alterations would be needed.  I think that you should be able to get around 2,250 or maybe a little more with the Woodleigh 300 grain bullet.  This should make a great backpacking rifle for defensive purposes in the backwoods of Alaska.  With Marlin's slick action and the 18.5 inch barrel of the current model 1895M you should be able to hit a charging bear at least twice, most likely run out of time after that, but that should do the trick, and you'd still have 3 to spare.

[nabob]

My one wish is that Remington would make a pump gun in these bigger calibers. Never liked levers.

[deltecs]

This is a good question.  Most of the 40 calibers are geared to hunt DG in Africa.  I too am considering the application and use of a 40 caliber.  Actually it is .423.  I like the Ruger Mark I action and would like a pair of rifles made for African hunting that would be all right for hunting in Alaska.  So in my investigations, I've decided on a 404 Dakota cartridge for the big bore and a 338-06 A Square for the medium bore.  Both have identical ballistics equal to the original ballistics of 2 African classic calibers, the 404 Jeffrey and the 333 Rimless Nitro.  The 338 would be a good game rifle for most of Alaska's big game and the 404 Dakota would be fine for big bear, bison, and moose.  It is a bit overgunned, but so is a 7mm Rem for white tail.  The problem I have wtih the 404 Dakota is that the only data I can find is from the manufacturer and I'd like more ballistic info on it.  Can anyone help?
Greg

[torque]

Just as an update, I ended up getting the 405 Winchester in a Ruger #1 Stainless laminate.  I couldn't be happier. Using the Hornady factory ammo, it is clover leafing at 100 yds (normal shot where I hunt).  I absolutely love the gun and the round.  Whitetails beware!! 

[deltecs]

Ken Howell designed some excellent cases based on the 404 Jeffrey.  He designed the .416 Howell, which is basically the 375 Dakota case necked up to .416.  One could have dies made for a .411 bore and accomplish the same thing.  It would fit into an 06 length action with ease, use the .411 bullets you were talking about and then load for the 400's for DG.  The velocity with the 400 grs should be +2300 fps in a 23" barrel and moderate pressures.  This would be a good rifle for the big bad ones in Africa.  Not as good as the .45's or larger bores, but a substantial increase above the .375.  Post us when you decide on one.

[qscale]

quickdtoo

   Tim

   Thank you for taking the time to add all those great links! It made it so easy for me to get to the info of interest. You're doing alot of us a great service, and keep up the good work!

   Brian

[quickdtoo]

You're very welcome Brian, glad to help.

Tim